How do you explain it to pro-circ people? - Page 2

[elanorh]

I think a lot of people who make this choice are more likely to buy into what the 'authorities' are telling them to do, whether it's circ or something else.

So my response a few times has been:

"Oh, well, our pediatrician does not recommend circumcision. She told us that the AAP no longer recommends it either." (I also use this reaction for episiotomies and bad breastfeeding advice) IME, hearing that an *authority figure* was my first advice not to [circ, etc.] then makes people pause to think a bit more. I will often elaborate about the facts if we talk beyond that point, but I think that just bringing up the fact that our doctor is opposed, is enough to make quite a few people re-think their positions.

(and, this is actually true, too - we were in the "well, why would we?" camp in re: circ before our children were born - hadn't researched it at all but could have been swayed in either direction; and our Ped was very outspoken when we interviewed her, about the fact that there is no medical reason to circ and that it's not recommended etc. etc.)

[SlackerDad]

It's interesting to see people talking about debating this issue with friends. I would second those who say this can get pretty ugly. While on the one hand I know that most people circ out of ignorance rather than malice, I think that if I talked to a friend about it and they were adamantly pro-circ, I would have a very difficult time continuing the friendship. I have one good friend who's got a four year old boy, and I have wondered about whether he is intact. I like to think he and his wife are progressive enough to know better (and I know they have been exposed to good information due to the doctor they used, who is admantly anti-circ), but I don't know absolutely for sure and I'm kind of afraid to find out in case the answer is the other way.

[sweetsunshine85]

I have taken care of my friends' kids many times, and its kinda obvious when you are changing one of the boys' diapers. My closest friends have not circ'd their boys, but other less close friends have. Its kind of a growing topic back home...

[Blarg]

My general experience has been that it's most effective to frame things in the least confrontational way, and in a way that they can relate to the most.

For example, saying "uncircumcised" instead of "intact". Yeah, yeah... it frames circ as being the norm, which is bad. But frankly, that's how they see it (at least at first), and you're more relatable if you approach it that way. "This is something a lot of people do, but that doesn't make it good."
Don't get uppity about terminology. In the end, they're just words. What's important is communication. Sure different words have different implications, but not ones that are so important that you need to build a wall between you and the person your talking with.

Talk about the benefits of the foreskin and the drawbacks of not having it. Cite studies and relate personal experiences (if you have any). Explain circ's history, talk about how most of the world doesn't do it and they're fine.

And especially listen to them. Really listen. Engage in a genuine dialogue with them. Find out where they're coming from, and try to genuinely sympathize with them. Treat them like a human-being, not like a potential sexual mutilator.

Don't be manipulative, be honest. Try to actually connect with them.

It's also important to recognize when you're not going to get anywhere. Some people are just hard-and-set pro-circ, and there's really nothing you can do. It sucks horrible ass, but it's true, and nothing you can say will change their mind. Recognizing when that's the case and moving on is important, otherwise you just drain and hurt yourself.

[PuppyFluffer]

Blarg, very well put!

Peggy O'Mara said to me (and a small group of other people) "You have to meet a mother where she is." That was such a profound statement to me. You have to know where someone is before you can take them anywhere else. I think sometimes we need to listen more before we start talking. If you have a sense of where a person is, then you know where to start with them.

[sweetsunshine85]

That's one of my favorite quotes and how I try to approach any issue, by meeting the person where they are. Thank you for that, I had forgotten.

[PuppyFluffer]

I don't know where it comes from originally but it's a powerful statement!

I think sometimes we get ourselves too much involved in this issue...or any issue that you feel very passionate about. It can be hard to draw the line between us and the message we are trying to get across. It's hard not to get personal.

[benj]

Good advice, Blarg. I'd never use my personal experience though in an argument, unless it was asked for directly.

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by Talula Fairie

ooh! I found a better link online in case you can't find the full article:

http://mothering.com/cutting-kids

Thanks for that! I posted it to my facebook page.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by leila1213

Thanks for that! I posted it to my facebook page.

That is a great page.

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by Fellow Traveler

That is a great page.

Tons of my friends passed it along, too!

[shelbean91]

I haven't read the other replies- but my answer is 'i can always do it later, I can't undo it' and 'cleanliness? seriously- an open wound in a diaper is hardly clean'.

[Yulia_R]

I usually start with the sick history of circ in North America which is prevention of masturbation. This is usually a very good "wake up" call for many people. Then I go on to explain why (foreskin being the most sensitive part, sensitivity loss due to its removal and so on)

[phrogger]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

I usually start with the sick history of circ in North America which is prevention of masturbation. This is usually a very good "wake up" call for many people. Then I go on to explain why (foreskin being the most sensitive part, sensitivity loss due to its removal and so on)

That is usually my opener as well. Then I go on to remind people it is just "skin" it is his PENIS. There is a reason it is there and it is part of the whole thing. I wouldn't cut off the whole penis so why is it ok to cut off 1/3 of it?

At this point in my life it is also much easier to debunk the theories that it will cause major infections and will be just hell. My older boys are intact and we NEVER have had a problem. They both retracted their own skin around 2 or 3 and have always been able to clean it. We have never had a UTI, but I on the other hand get them all the time, especailly while pg. So do *I* need to be circ. to prevent infection? I think not.

I am pretty outspoken about the whole issue. Part of it is I do not want my sons to be seen as odd or unusual because they remained as they were born. Even if I can't change other peoples minds, maybe they will be less critical of my sons.

[serendipity22]

Someone once said to me don't give people the conclusion.

Just give them the same information, knowledge, insights etc. that led you to your conclusion.

Once they have that information their mind will automatically come to the same conclusion, and they don't feel it has been forced on them, its like they have worked it out themselves.

[Matt09]

Hi, I'm a dad, though have been thinking a lot lately on how I wish I still had foreskin, for many reasons. Can't say why how all the sudden my glans have been killing me, the rubbing on clothes, develop rough callus on glans, hurts to touch. Dr says it will go away, hard to protect it. My son is circumcised. Guess all men can have issues, though my father is not, and I think how comfortable life could be without that friction.
The cleanliness, infection, skin getting stuck, yes that can happen, though I suggest to uncircumcise. I get angry when I think of what I've lost, no offense, when I think if girls had this done what an outcry there would be, of course no reason for it. Imagine that sensitive part getting rubbed and desensitized or callused. Interesting, my Doc said how it was a good thing to be circumcised, looked at him said I don't think so.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Matt09

Hi, I'm a dad, though have been thinking a lot lately on how I wish I still had foreskin, for many reasons. Can't say why how all the sudden my glans have been killing me, the rubbing on clothes, develop rough callus on glans, hurts to touch. Dr says it will go away, hard to protect it. My son is circumcised. Guess all men can have issues, though my father is not, and I think how comfortable life could be without that friction.
The cleanliness, infection, skin getting stuck, yes that can happen, though I suggest to uncircumcise. I get angry when I think of what I've lost, no offense, when I think if girls had this done what an outcry there would be, of course no reason for it. Imagine that sensitive part getting rubbed and desensitized or callused. Interesting, my Doc said how it was a good thing to be circumcised, looked at him said I don't think so.

I'm so sorry for you and your son. You may want to look into non-sergical restoration.