"pretty penis"

[emma1325]

I have a really good friend who is extremely pro-circ. She says she had her son circumcised because it's cleaner, healthier, and of course, more attractive. She says she feels very strongly about this because when she was younger, she had quite a few sex partners, and the ones who were uncircumcised were "just nasty" and the girls would gossip about them and make fun of them. She said she doesn't want her son to go through that.

So...superficial reasons and misinformation...but anyway, she's my friend regardless. Her reasons are based on her experiences and she is genuinely concerned about her son's well being. I didn't want to be too bold or opinionated about this, because she's a nice person and I didn't want to imply to her that I think she made the wrong choice with her son. Basically, I didn't want to hurt her feelings. I just didn't see the point. I did state gently that I would be leaving my son intact - should I have one in the future.

So later I relayed this conversation and my friend's reasoning to my husband (who is circumcised.)

He said her reasons gives him more ammunition to leaving his child uncut. He says he wouldn't want his son associating with women who would be so shallow and childish when it comes to sex, and that perhaps being uncut would encourage his son to pick his sex partners more carefully.

Just thought I would share.

[tutucrazy]

Yeah, basing the fate of your son's genitalia on the preferences of a group of naive individuals is probably not a good reason. Guess all us women should get circumcised b/c I've heard plenty of men complain about a woman's vagina.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I have a really good friend who is extremely pro-circ. She says she had her son circumcised because it's cleaner, healthier, and of course, more attractive. She says she feels very strongly about this because when she was younger, she had quite a few sex partners, and the ones who were uncircumcised were "just nasty" and the girls would gossip about them and make fun of them. She said she doesn't want her son to go through that.

every time i hear this i feel the strong urge to say "oo yeah i totally understand that. when my daughter turns thirteen we are going to get her breast implants b/c lord knows its more attractive and i don't want boys to think she is ugly and make fun of her because she has small breasts."

btw- i wear an a cup and i was not made fun of anymore then my more well endowed friends

or "yes as soon as my daughter hits puberty will be taking her to get lazer hair removal on her vagina."

[eepster]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I have a really good friend who is extremely pro-circ. She says she had her son circumcised because it's cleaner, healthier, and of course, more attractive. She says she feels very strongly about this because when she was younger, she had quite a few sex partners, and the ones who were uncircumcised were "just nasty" and the girls would gossip about them and make fun of them. She said she doesn't want her son to go through that.

I wonder if they were confused as to what an intact penis actually is and looks like, b/c you can't really tell in the errect state. That combined with the extreemly high circ rate of the the '70s and '80s makes wonder if they saw guys with skin bridges or something and thought they were intact.

[VeezieTG]

wow. just further goes with what i always tell people: i would no sooner circ my sons then i'd get them rhinoplasty upon birth, or chin implants or any other plastic surgery. (usually goes with, "i want my son to look like daddy" "oh, wow. what are you going to do if he doesn't have his nose? or his chin?")

[Fyrestorm]

Why does she care about the attractiveness of her son's genitals? Is she planning on using them?

[minkajane]

Originally Posted by eepster

I wonder if they were confused as to what an intact penis actually is and looks like, b/c you can't really tell in the errect state.

I can definitely tell. In an intact penis, you can see the edge of the foreskin behind the glans, the frenulum is present (it's often removed in RIC), and the glans is shiny and moist. In a circumcised penis, there's an obvious scar line, the skin is much tighter, and the glans is keritinized. Saying "it's all the same when erect," even when it's used to support the intact penis, just perpetuates the myth that circ is no big deal and makes no difference except for the flaccid aesthetics.

[frontierpsych]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Why does she care about the attractiveness of her son's genitals? Is she planning on using them?

OMG I hope not!

Seriously, I never got this argument.

[K703]

Here's one of the things that I might tell someone who thinks that a circumcised penis looks better: "Do you think that scars look better than normal tissue? Probably not, but for some reason penises are an exception to you."

[twins+1]

I have to say I think my baby's intact penis is precious and beautiful. I'm SO SO SO happy we left him intact (sadly I didn't do the research with our older son). All the arguments here against circumcision are wonderful.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by frontierpsych

OMG I hope not!

Seriously, I never got this argument.

Well, we all care about our children's futures and want the best for them. My friend is just severely misinformed, and sadly she's not alone in her belief.
She thinks uncut men have it tough as adults and she doesn't want that for her son. I don't agree with her reasoning but I can understand it.

[SlackerDad]

I am from a generation that was almost universally circ'd (I'm turning 40 this summer), and I am intact. I remember as a preteen being stressed out about the idea that I was different from the other guys, but no one ever actually teased me or anything. Then when I hit my high school years and started being sexually active, it was never an issue. I was not extremely promiscuous, but I had at least the average number of partners I think, and no one ever seemed to have any negative reaction. When there was any reaction, it was positive--after all, my equipment works the way it is supposed to, which is more pleasurable both for me and my partner.

I suppose it's possible that girls/women were secretly thinking or saying something behind my back. But when you really think about the idea that Americans routinely surgically alter male genitals in infancy while people in Europe and Asia do not, and the Americans thus come to think that the altered genitals are "normal" and more attractive...well, it strikes me as kind of creepy, like something out of a dystopian sci-fi story where everyone gets their "extra" eye removed at birth and thinks two-eyed people are weird looking. I know one thing: there is no amount of money you could pay me to have it done.

[SlackerDad]

Originally Posted by minkajane

I can definitely tell. In an intact penis, you can see the edge of the foreskin behind the glans, the frenulum is present (it's often removed in RIC), and the glans is shiny and moist. In a circumcised penis, there's an obvious scar line, the skin is much tighter, and the glans is keritinized. Saying "it's all the same when erect," even when it's used to support the intact penis, just perpetuates the myth that circ is no big deal and makes no difference except for the flaccid aesthetics.

My sense is that this must vary a fair bit. My foreskin still completely covers my glans when I am erect (wow, wasn't expecting to talk about being erect on this site or any other for that matter, LOL...but once people start discussing it so matter-of-factly, it just seems natural to share my two cents). If I put a condom on, the foreskin is still there during intercourse as well. It's only if I have intercourse without a condom that it gets retracted.

[DocsNemesis]

Yeah, it does, I've seen pics were you really cannot tell at all, and others who have a lot of foreskin resulting in it still being obvious.

Anywho, I will NEVER understand the *prettier* argument. I suppose I can understand a moms fear that some girl will be grossed out about it and embarass him, but frankly I wouldn't want my son to be with someone who was like that (beyond the initial reaction; I could see how it'd be like "WHOA" if you've never seen an intact penis before). But I have heard moms say that THEY think its prettier, therefore they are getting it done. Ew? I mean wtf, they arnt the ones using it! Jeeze.

[benj]

I don't understand why people think it's ok to sexualize infants. :

I actually did get some crap from people (only girls, go figure) for being intact...but never enough to make me wish I was circumcised. I'd say that if a girl/woman is unhappy about a guy being one way or the other, to be glad the relationship ended there.

[SlackerDad]

Originally Posted by benj

I don't understand why people think it's ok to sexualize infants. :

I actually did get some crap from people (only girls, go figure) for being intact...but never enough to make me wish I was circumcised. I'd say that if a girl/woman is unhappy about a guy being one way or the other, to be glad the relationship ended there.

What kind of crap did you get? I think I would have perhaps expected to run into this in my virginal days, but I think the number of girls/women who have seen me naked has got to be in the dozens (though not a hundred or anything), and it just never happened at all to me, surprisingly.

ETA: What I meant is not that I would have expected this to happen when I was a virgin, but that when I was a virgin, I probably expected it to be a potential problem later, after I became sexually active.

[benj]

Originally Posted by SlackerDad

What kind of crap did you get? I think I would have perhaps expected to run into this in my virginal days, but I think the number of girls/women who have seen me naked has got to be in the dozens (though not a hundred or anything), and it just never happened at all to me, surprisingly.

ETA: What I meant is not that I would have expected this to happen when I was a virgin, but that when I was a virgin, I probably expected it to be a potential problem later, after I became sexually active.

I was born in 1986, so I think I can safely assume that the majority of my peers are circumcised.

I only had one bad situation. There was one girl who told me that it was disgusting and that I was stupid for even thinking that she'd want to be with me. She ended up apologizing to me later, but that stung.

The others would just mention it, which made me feel self-conscious. But because of that one incident, I'd always have to tell girls beforehand or wait until I was erect so they wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I think a lot of it was in my own head. Strangely though, I never wished I was circumcised, just that girls were nicer/less ignorant. To me, it seemed like a giant waste of time for a girl to have that strong of an opinion.

Your last sentence doesn't make sense.

[hakunangovi]

Personaly, I never understood the "pretty penis" argument. I suppose that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but an intact penis just looks so right, so natural. A circumcised one looks, well...., so wrong.

[SlackerDad]

Originally Posted by benj

Your last sentence doesn't make sense.

LOL...you mean my "ETA" sentence? I was afraid of that.

All I meant was that I thought my original statement made it sound like I thought that girls would somehow see my penis when I was young and still a virgin and make fun of me. Whereas what I really meant was that when I was young, before I had actually had sex, I wasn't sure what to expect when I did start being sexually active. I probably (I don't recall specifically) had some concern that once I started being naked with girls, they would think the intactness was weird. But then it never actually turned out that way. Does that make sense now?

BTW it's interesting to ponder this idea of an erect intact penis looking circ'd! I hadn't realised I was so unusual in this respect.

[benj]

Originally Posted by SlackerDad

LOL...you mean my "ETA" sentence? I was afraid of that.

All I meant was that I thought my original statement made it sound like I thought that girls would somehow see my penis when I was young and still a virgin and make fun of me. Whereas what I really meant was that when I was young, before I had actually had sex, I wasn't sure what to expect when I did start being sexually active. I probably (I don't recall specifically) had some concern that once I started being naked with girls, they would think the intactness was weird. But then it never actually turned out that way. Does that make sense now?

BTW it's interesting to ponder this idea of an erect intact penis looking circ'd! I hadn't realised I was so unusual in this respect.

Ah yes, now it makes sense.

I don't understand what you mean by you were so "unusual."

Most girls/women who have never seen an intact penis (or recieived any information) do not know that the skin retracts. Informed women can tell the difference. I actually did end up getting circumcised later on and there is a pretty big difference to me. However, I guess I just used their ignorance as an advantage.