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struggling with spirituality - Page 3

post #41 of 62
Originally posted by lab
Once I say that I don't think being a homosexual is wrong, then I have to admit the BIble is wrong ....... Right? Well then the Bible is wrong.
there are alternate ways. even though the words as written are static the people who read them are not: all reading is interpretation, all reading happens in a conflux of cultural context between writer and reader. the words may be the words: but they do not create only one path.

besides, the word "homosexual" doesn't even appear in the bible.
post #42 of 62
Originally posted by dado
besides, the word "homosexual" doesn't even appear in the bible.
It appears in all of mine: in one version it appears in 1 Corinthians; in one version it appears in Leviticus twice, 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy; in another version it appears in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy. I think it depends on what version you read. As I've said before I study from the NIV, the NASB, and the RSV.
post #43 of 62
OK, I am pretty sure we are not allowed to discuss the sin factor of homosexuality on these boards...
post #44 of 62
No one has.
post #45 of 62
Seconding the recommendation of books by Marcus Borg. I have not read "Meeting Jesus Again for trh First Time" but hear it is very good. His book "Reading the Bible Again, for the First Time" (Taking the Bible seriously but not literally) probably saved my Christianity. I wish you luck on this journey.
post #46 of 62
I wonder if that book is similar to Bishop Spong's book, Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, which I have read? In fact, all of Spong's books are great when you are questioning, esp if you do want to hang on to Xtianity. IMO. He is a liberal, kind and smart Episcopalian (Church of England) bishop. Very prolific.
post #47 of 62
Originally posted by DaryLLL
He is a liberal, kind and smart Episcopalian (Church of England) bishop. Very prolific.
T I thought the Church of England was Anglican and Episcopalian came out of that. Is it the other way around? It's way too early to recall the origins/names/etc properly.
post #48 of 62
Elzbet, I was curous and tried to look up the Anglican/ Episcopal question. Yikes. Near as I can tell the name Episcopal was applied to the Church of England in the US during the Revolutionary period. Basically many early Americans were Anglican and wanted to remain so but also wanted to make it clear they were not in any way loyal to the British crown. (Much as Henry VIII was adamant about not being loyal to the Bishop of Rome.) So they renamed the church, severed ties to England but otherwise made no real changes to the religion. Of course in modern America, we are chummy with the Brits again so there are also sanctioned by the Church of England, 100% Anglican churches here as well. So, they are governed seperately so are not the same church but I get the distinct impression that if you visited either church you would find little or no difference in the liturgy.

And just to muddy the water further, I googled Bishop Sprong and in the first 10 entries he is refered to as Episcopalian 4 times and Anglican once.
post #49 of 62
Well that's not complex is it? Thank you muchly!

Back from tangent!
post #50 of 62
T We are having family (my adopted sister's birth sister) come visit our house this summer when my sister has her baby. She will be bringing her partner who also is a female. It is going to be interesting because I have watched shows that I like for ex: the Queer Eye for the straight guy, but that is a lot different then having houseguests who are basically the only gay people that we know (that we know of). Anyway, I don't know if I should say something to my kids or say nothing or what to say. There should be some funny moments I guess, we should all have a nice time.
post #51 of 62
very interesting thread folks!

lab - just wanted to add a couple things:

1. you don't have take the bible literally all of the time to belief the basic premises of christianity. you can still be christian (whatever flavor) and understand the intricacies of the difference between the "Word of God" and the "words of men in the bible".

2. I second (or third i think) the recommendation of Bishop Spong, especially since you stated that you wanted some theology. And along that same line I highly recommend Raymond Brown. he is an amazing writer and will open your eyes to ways of seeing christianity and the bible that you may not have thought of before.

3. I highly DO NOT recommend Strobel's "The Case for Christ". Mainly because it is mostly sensationalistic style writing with very little real research to back it up. Besides, he says a few things that are blatently wrong or misrepresented. I also don't recommend his book because of what you said you were looking for. (theology and not prostelytising) His book will probably not suit your needs.

That said: "Good luck!" I personally think that an exploration of you faith is a very exciting, if unsettling, time and you have all the opportunities to come out of this a stronger, wiser person - be that christian or not!

If you would like to talk in further detail about any of this please feel free to pm me. I love learning with other people exploring their faith!

peace and health,
post #52 of 62
I've really been impressed by "Surprised by the Voice of God" by Jack Deere. It chronicles how God has spoken to people throughout history and uses quotes and information from some very rare material. Basically it showed me that God is alive and well, present and speaking both in my life and in the lives of many who have gone on before me. Basically, books on church history only give you snapshots of history as a whole because historians selectively choose the church history that best mirrors their beliefs, so read a variety of history books from all viewpoints to get the big picture. The very first chapter in this book (I think) tells why people are so fed up and bored with the church as a whole. The book really opened my eyes as to what we are missing in our spiritual lives. I have read it twice now and used it several times to write papers in college. It's historical but easy to read in layman's terms. Really, read it. It will change your life.

post #53 of 62
bestbirths, is that ever off topic!

Perhaps post your concerns in Queer Parenting?
post #54 of 62
Originally posted by wolfmom
you don't have take the bible literally all of the time to belief the basic premises of christianity.
That's for sure. Paul himself was not a Literalist. He obviously spoke of the (pseudo?) historical events of the Hebrew Scriptures as "allegory."

Even his "Christ" was not a flesh and blood man.
post #55 of 62
Thread Starter 

I just have to say that I am sooo impressed with the wealth of knowledge that has been opened to me!

You know what really got me to admit to myself that I needed this journey was the thread here on Mary Mag and her role (or lack thereof) in the Bible. That was so fascinating and eye-opening!

I apologize if I offended anyone with my earlier comment. I was really thinking out loud.

I especially want to thank you Daryll for giving me so many options that aren't Christian based. And Elzabet for helping me to understand that it doesn't have to be black and white even if you are a Christian (again - I'm using my upbringing as my basis for Christian - not trying to lump anybody together).

I'm studying for a real estate exam now so I really can't get into these links and books like I really would like to.....

What I want to do is study and read these links and books and post my observations and hopefully get more help -

You guys feel used yet! HEE HEE! ~rubbing my hands together gleefully!~
post #56 of 62
lab~ I want to commend you on actually seeking the TRUTH not just what you were brought up to believe. It takes a strong person to even go as far as you have gone with your questioning. I personally deconverted from the Church of Christ a few years ago, and it was honestly the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. At the same time, my DH deconverted from the Baptist church. We went searching for the "truth" in both religions because we had differing views on a few things such as baptism, the rapture, ect. We came out atheists. It sounds like you have been having similar questions. A few sites to find interesting articles on deconverting are at http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php also, just type in "deconversion stories" into any search engine. The other posters have given you lots of good info to read up on. A few other things that I found interesting are reading about Mithra (just do a search) and Krishna. I also enjoyed studying about Judaism. It is alot different than I had been taught.

As far as the social aspect of not going to church anymore goes. That is just a very hard situation. I agree that you should not tell your kids that you believe it if you don't. I also think that you should feel your DH out, see if he may have any doubts, ect. Ask him to do a bit of research with you on a topic, ect.

Good luck, and lots of (((HUGS))). I am sure you will need them on your journey. You can PM me if you want!
post #57 of 62
I am glad to be off assitance (and also glad I was coherent! ) Prayers for your journey!
post #58 of 62
Elzabet, I thought you were glad to be off assistance (Welfare? food stamps?), but I see you meant of assistance! That makes more sense.

Am reading Margaret Starbird's 2nd book, The Goddess in the Gospels, since you, lab, brought up M Magdalene. She was a very very devout, almost traditionalist, charismatic Catholic. When circumstances and research forced her to come to terms with the fact that Jesus was married to Mary M, she actually had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized in a mental ward for 3 days.

Apparently she still considers herelf a Catholic, despite being fully aware of the 2000 year coverup. She has less trust in her Pope, altho she loves him dearly. She focuses on his devotion to the Black Madonna of Chestochowa (of which I had not heard before) and his desire to declare Mother Mary Co-Redemptrix with Christ. Altho she thinks he's got the wrong Mary. But he is at least giving women more equality with this idea.
post #59 of 62
See what I meant about coherent? OF not off. Yes. Bleah.
post #60 of 62
Just wondering how your search for your own truth is coming?
I should have read your post before posting my own!

I went through a similar thing maybe 15 years ago. I was really feeling like I wasn't a Christian, yet scared to death of that belief! Now I'm scared I'm losing the faith I've had in myself and my own beliefs since denouncing my Christian beliefs so long ago!

Of course, I have only ever "come out" to one of my family members about my non-beliefs - one of my older sisters and a devout Catholic.

Anyway, now I have my own new spin of confusion going on. I just wanted to offer prayers to you that you find your way, your light and be comforted by it!

peaceful wishes,
happy, cloth diapering, bf, co-sleeping, no circ, sah mom to michael, 2-11-01
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