"there is no try" - Page 2

[Smokering]

Misquoting Star Wars to a child? Horrendous. He'll grow up saying it wrong and his friends will laugh at him.

Other than that I don't really have a beef with the phrase. I quote all sorts of things whether or not I actually mean or believe them... "So's your face", for instance. And I do have several distinct childhood memories of half-heartedly "trying" to find a lost item and coming back whining "I can't fiiiiind it" - I suspect it would have been very good for me to adopt a results-oriented trying-doesn't-count-find-the-darn-hairbrush-already philosophy.

On a purely geeky level I'd also like to point out that Yoda's "There is no try" was meant to educate Luke on the non-importance of matter. Luke was "trying" to raise the ship - straining and getting all agitated because he thought the size of the ship made it harder to lift than the boulders. That wasn't the way. He was supposed to let go, let the Force flow through him and realise that "size matters not" - that's how Yoda did it, calmly and without apparent exertion. Again, possibly not the best message to teach your kid, but I don't think "there is no try" can justly be applied to piano playing. At least, not non-Jedi piano playing. ("Feel the Strauss!")

[ananas]

If it was a Star Wars thing, I see nothing wrong with it at all.

For instance, in this setting:
"Put your shoes on, honey"
"Ok, I'll try"

*Mom jokingly quotes Star Wars because it made her think of it*

I don't really see how it's a big philosophy thing, or really wrong in any way.

[flapjack]

We have it on the inside of our toilet door. : And yes, it's a life philosophy, and yes, it's something we teach the kids to live by, and yes, darned right my preschooler watches Empire Strikes Back.

[Kirsten]

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

That's the "do not" of the phrase. You are to do until you are successful. Every time you do not (i.e. fail), you are to do again. And keep doing until you do it. That's the part that Luke didn't get. Everything up to that moment that Yoda told him to do, he did it. Now Yoda told him to do something that Luke "knew" was impossible. So he really didn't try at all.

That is a great way to explain it.

I LOVE "do or do not; there is no try". Try is defeatist; it assumes you might not do it. I want my kids to have a positive attitude. Of course sometimes (lots of times) we fall short; we have to make another attempt. But I don't think four is too early to start understanding that "whether you say you can or you can't, you're right".

We have a paperweight that says "what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?" I love that too.

My first instinct on reading the OP was that it is great for adults but not kids. But upon further reading of this thread, I think it is good for just about everyone.

I've always said that people who say they are going to "try" for natural childbirth are quite unlikely to get it. You read, you take classes, you prepare mentally and physically including practicing relaxation, you surround yourself with people who are supportive, you make VERY careful choices in regards to location of birth and your care provider. I never said try. I was committed. In my gut, I knew it was going to happen. We had a couple of unexpected challenges - but I had the right people around me, we were in the right places, and it all did end up well. Not that that is a guarantee! But you up your odds DRAMATICALLY.

[Smokering]

We have it on the inside of our toilet door.

That's either coincidentally or intentionally brilliant.

[mommysarah5]

I heard this comment growing up. I think even a child who is a star wars fan could potentially be hurt by this statement. It's very upsetting and discouraging as a child to be told that you aren't trying when you are, or that trying isn't good enough (I don't want to hear you'll try. either do it or dont.) (and there were consequences if I didn't, perhaps that was another factor) I grew up feeling like I ever did was good enough and it really hurt that my trying was not enough. I have to say, I would have been happy with my parents if they had at least tried to be compassionate with me.

[Equuskia]

Originally Posted by mommysarah5

I heard this comment growing up. I think even a child who is a star wars fan could potentially be hurt by this statement. It's very upsetting and discouraging as a child to be told that you aren't trying when you are, or that trying isn't good enough (I don't want to hear you'll try. either do it or dont.) (and there were consequences if I didn't, perhaps that was another factor) I grew up feeling like I ever did was good enough and it really hurt that my trying was not enough. I have to say, I would have been happy with my parents if they had at least tried to be compassionate with me.

Perhaps for an adult or older teenager, this could be a useful statement, but for a preschooler? I don't think so. It's very discouraging. I think a better phrase is "If you don't succeed, try try again". Like the piano example, you won't play Fur Elise on your first try, but with lots of "tries", you can. I think "Do or do not, there is no try" to a preschooler can lead to one of two possibilities, a perfectionist attitude (I won't do it until I can get it perfect) or a defeatist attitude (I can't do it right anyways, so why bother trying?)

[nerdymom]

Originally Posted by jojojojojo

Is the child a Star Wars fan? Sounds like the mom was just saying what Yoda said to Luke Skywalker in The Empire Strikes Back.

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

Oh true.

I came back to this thread because I'm still laughing.

My second round of thought is basically that we don't have to turn everything we say to our preschoolers into a life philosophy.

I do quote to my son inappropriately (or over-appropriately!) sometimes. Example: he is locked in a battle of wills with me. My husband enters and everything is suddenly roses. "Now is the winter of our discontent // Made glorious summer by this son of York."

ETA: I'm laughing more. Maybe you have to have been a Star Wars geek to get it - but Yoda is definitely not anti-trying. He's actually anti-WHINING.

The whole thing is that Luke is whining that Yoda wants him to do something IMPOSSIBLE, boo hoo (Luke is prone to whining) and also something that he thinks is beyond his potential. Yoda's point is that it's not impossible. Actually the more I'm analysing this the more I think maybe it is appropriate for a preschooler.

Then, or a bit later (I forget the sequence) Yoda does the "impossible" and Luke says "I don't believe it" and then Yoda says "That is why you fail."

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

That's the "do not" of the phrase. You are to do until you are successful. Every time you do not (i.e. fail), you are to do again. And keep doing until you do it. That's the part that Luke didn't get. Everything up to that moment that Yoda told him to do, he did it. Now Yoda told him to do something that Luke "knew" was impossible. So he really didn't try at all. There is no way to really comment on the use of the phrase in the op. There is not enough information to get the context of the phrase.

: geeks of the world untie! I am forever quoting star wars to DH (my favorite being "stay on target, stay on target" whenever he starts talking about some off-the-wall scheme he and his coworkers thought up. We quote SW, Fight club, and South Park a lot. Sometimes we say things to DS too. Right now, DS is chewy, because his answers are not always discernable.

[AllyRae]

My 5 year old would have thought I was the best mom ever if I quoted Star Wars in an appropriate situation (especially since I've never seen any of them...he has and has memorized nearly every line of every episode due to his autism photographic memory for movies)

Originally Posted by flapjack

darned right my preschooler watches Empire Strikes Back.

LOL...Brandon likes that one, but prefers Revenge of the Sith (he calls it "revenge of the sniff", which I think is the cutest thing ever. : )

[onlyzombiecat]

Originally Posted by galincognito

i overheard a woman saying to a preschool aged child "there is no try; you do or you don't do."

i'm just curious what others think of this statement. while i can see it applying in certain circumstances (ie. an obediance situation where the child says they are "trying" to follow the rule but they "forgot"), i'm not sure about the statement as a life philosophy sort of thing. to me it seems rather discouraging; if i can't do it then i might as well not do it since trying doesn't matter.

i'm just interested in what others think when they hear this statement.

I also think of Yoda.

I'm not sure it was being used in a life philosophy sense by the woman to the young child. It may have been a specific thing or a family joke.

I think if you decide to take the statement as your life philosophy it can be uplifting and helpful. However, if it is something that is told to you by someone else I think it can be discouraging rather than helpful especially to a young child.

[anywaybecause]

Originally Posted by Oriole

I had to add, DP actually does Yoda voice when he says that particular phrase.

oh, good . . . we're not the only ones who do this!

[madskye]

Not to overthink it, but I also think the "do or do not, there is no try" has something to do with taking the Self out of the equation. It's not about failure or success--you either do it or you don't do it. SewChris said, in Star Wars Luke thought it was impossible, so he didn't "do"--you either destroy the Battlestar (or whatever that thing was called) or you don't!

It is a little heavy for a pre-schooler but also, I wonder if this lady hears "I'm tryyyyying" 700 times a day and it's become her way to keep her sanity.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by Smokering

Again, possibly not the best message to teach your kid, but I don't think "there is no try" can justly be applied to piano playing. At least, not non-Jedi piano playing. ("Feel the Strauss!")

I actually laughed out loud when I read this.

[jennydecki]

Personally, I think preschool is too early to turn the world into a black-and-white place of failure or success. (Even if it does sound adorable in the Yoda voice LOL)

My girls are perfectionists that tend to get really frustrated if they don't complete a task just the way they want to complete it. That means for me, a message of "but you did so great it doesn't have to be perfect" is a necessity.

If the kids are laid back, I'm sure it won't break them - but my kids aren't laid back so it made me gasp a little to hear someone saying that to a kid - but as long as it's not my kid I can see that it may not be such a bad thing.

[nextcommercial]

I say to my daycare kids. "Are you crying? There's no crying in baseball". (league of their own)

It makes no sense. But, now they say it too.

[Momily]

I think we all say goofy things to our kids. My line (since I teach at the early childhood level) is "don't worry, I'm a professional" (said while I'm lifting my own toddler onto the changing table, or tying a shoelace). Now, do I mean to make a political statement about the level of professionalism of Early Childhood Workers or to imply to my child that caregiving is best done by paid professionals, or that I'm a faster shoe tier (OK, there is no way to spell this word that looks remotely right to me tire? Tyer? Tier? Individual who ties shoes?) than those who just "dabble" in it as a hobby? No, I don't.

So, I can imagine that if I said to my child one day "remember to be polite to Grandma", and he said "I'll try" that Yoda might come out of my mouth. Or if I sent him into his bedroom to find a shoe and he came back and said he "tried" to find it (and I knew it was sitting on his bed, because I just saw it, and if he spent more than 30 seconds in the room he'd see it), I might say the same thing. That doesn't mean that I expect my child to wholeheartedly embrace Jedi philosophy. I also tell him "May the fork be with you" when I set the table.

[funkymamajoy]

Originally Posted by flapjack

We have it on the inside of our toilet door. : And yes, it's a life philosophy, and yes, it's something we teach the kids to live by, and yes, darned right my preschooler watches Empire Strikes Back.

:, except its not on our toilet.

We often say that we'll "try" when we really mean is "I can't" or "I'm going to quit when its gets hard." I didn't tell myself that I was going to try to breastfeed or VBAC, I told myself that I was going to do it. It doesn't mean that failure isn't an option, just don't talk yourself out of something before giving an attempt everything you've got.

And if its beyond a preschooler's understanding, then it will just go over his head, no harm, no foul.

[funkymamajoy]

Originally Posted by Smokering

Misquoting Star Wars to a child? Horrendous. He'll grow up saying it wrong and his friends will laugh at him.

laughup

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by madskye

Not to overthink it, but I also think the "do or do not, there is no try" has something to do with taking the Self out of the equation. It's not about failure or success--you either do it or you don't do it. SewChris said, in Star Wars Luke thought it was impossible, so he didn't "do"--you either destroy the Battlestar (or whatever that thing was called) or you don't!

It is a little heavy for a pre-schooler but also, I wonder if this lady hears "I'm tryyyyying" 700 times a day and it's become her way to keep her sanity.

if so, she should be happy her child tries that much! If I was hearing I'm trying 700 times a day I would ask "what is stopping you from doing it? Can I help you in any way?" sure, not everyone things that way, doesnt' mean that its any less harder for a child to hear "try harder" or "well you aren't trying hard enough" etc. Sometimes it may look like the child isn't really trying, or trying hard enough, or that its something easy that just needs to be done no trying involved. that is our perception of the situation, and not always the child. so those comments can only be a hindrance. (of course, i do see how said in jest when the child knows its a joke and is a star wars fan can be different)

[PhoenixMommaToTwo]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

I say to my daycare kids. "Are you crying? There's no crying in baseball". (league of their own)

It makes no sense. But, now they say it too.

Omgosh. My family and I say that ALL THE TIME. My husband hates that movie because I watched it too much, oops .

I think it's a good philosophy (if that's how she meant it) and like pp's has said, if it goes over the preschooler's head, no harm no foul. But, it's definitely something we are trying to teach our 6 year old. She has a very defeatist attitude about things. It's sad, but totally ot. I don't think it's a horrible thing to say.