Theologically Liberal Christians ... Summer '09

[MyLittleWonders]

Are there any of you still here? I was reading past threads and think I may be heading in that direction. My story is somewhat long, but I am going to refrain from posting until I know if there is anyone to join me in the discussion. Right now I am reading Jesus for the Non-Religious by John Shelby Spong. Dh and I have had quite a journey but are considering the possibility of finding a theologically liberal church for our family (the idea is still on the drawing board, and in its very beginning planning stages - we have a lot of baggage to process through first I think).

[athansor]

I'm still around, but not at MDC as often as I used to be. How do you like the book so far? I have read other works by Spong, but not that one. I will look around at the bookstore for a copy and join you if I can.

[MyLittleWonders]

Thank you for replying. I was wondering if there was anyone still out there. I am really, really enjoying the book. We left the church 4 years ago, but before that, I had been involved for the better part of 13 years; I had never been in any situation (church, Bible study, Christian friends) where the Bible was taken in any way but literally.

Originally Posted by Spong, page 133

There are some who are so attached to the traditional religious formulas of the past that, when they discover that these formulas are no longer working and indeed are no longer believable, they want nothing more to do with what has become for them disillusioning Christianity.

That was dh and I. We just could not make our brain wrap around the literalism of it all anymore, couldn't match up the Hebrew Scriptures with the Christian Scriptures. We couldn't make it make sense. So we left. And in leaving, we left a huge part of our lives behind. Now, I feel I can finally approach it all from a different perspective. (Margaret Starbird's work has also helped tremendously in that too.)

[sinsaratea]

Yep, this is me too. I went on quite a spiritual ride myself. I was brought up in the Southern Baptist church. Went to Methodist for awhile. Then dropped completely out and went pagan but could never drop Jesus somehow from my heart. And my mind is totally able to reconcile all the things I was studying/practicing for some reason. In fact, I was a bit dismayed for awhile because i was too pagan for the christians and too christian for the pagans... so fast forward to a little over a year ago. I had been going through some really dark stuff [and its not really over yet] and felt led to a church down the road from me. It saved me, and i mean that in the literal sense. I have drifted away from them and have been attending a methodist church now for the last month, but i am so thankful. I do still feel weird though since I am bit more liberal in my thoughts of christianty at times.but in other ways I am one of those crunchy conservatives. I really love reading Shane Claiborne's stuff. Check him out.
you are not alone.

[inkslinger]

I'm here. I'll post more later!

[Leta]

I'm still around. Still not sure if this completely describes me, but it feels like home all the same.

Shane Claiborne and the Spong book have been on my reading list for like 2 years. I need to get on that.

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by Leta

I'm still around. Still not sure if this completely describes me, but it feels like home all the same.

Shane Claiborne and the Spong book have been on my reading list for like 2 years. I need to get on that.

I too am not completely sure if this completely describes me, but I think it's the best I have at this time in my journey. I was not raised in any Christian denomination; my mom was/is very metaphysical and my dad agnostic. My mom's beliefs influenced me greatly and still do to this day. In college, I converted to evangelical Christianity. I "fell away" for a while a few years after my conversion, and then right around the time I got pregnant with ds#1, dh and I started attending a local non-denominational, evangelical church. I recommitted myself right about that same time, and eventually we were both baptized. We quickly became members, tithed, had a great group of people around us, and overall enjoyed our beliefs. Then I started studying. And that ended up being what drove us away from the church. We left completely, and actually considered for a month or so starting conversion to Judaism. At that time, we still believed in the God of the Hebrew Scriptures, but no longer believed in Jesus as messiah. Eventually we left all religion and have wandered, for lack of better word, for almost four years. For a long time, I was in denial about it all. Then I started coming to acceptance of that time of our lives. And most recently I have been in major mourning over the loss. It is as if it all just hit (the last 4 years have been hard in other ways too - most majorly in the passing of my dad almost 2 years ago).

Reading Margaret Starbird's The Woman with the Alabaster Jar really opened my mind and heart to another way of seeing the whole Jesus story. And Bishop Spong speaks to my heart through my mind. I am not entirely sure where or if we'll end up in terms of a church. I am pulled back to a sense of community and a place where we can belong as a family. I think due to Bishop Spong, I feel pulled to the Episcopalian church. There is a very liberal/welcoming one just a couple miles from our house - actually, there are two. For me, I think I'd absolutely love the ritual and tradition (one thing I did not like about non-denominational was the lack of ritual and tradition). But, I still need to consider the needs of my dh and kids as well. So, for now I am just continuing to read and allow my mind to wrap around a whole new set of ideas.

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by inkslinger

i'm here. I'll post more later!

Yay!

[genifer]

ok no time, but wanna know more. For me it depends on what you mean by liberal christian. bc Im kind of conservative in my personal beliefs but I dont necessarily believe politics and religion mix AT ALL. Im intrigued but not sure if Im the 'kind of liberal' you mean.

[hrsmom]

Hi! I'm still here!!! Thanks for starting a summer thread! I'm in the middle of Jesus for the Non-Religious as well, and enjoying Bishop Spong's writing very much. I have "aha" moments all the time, where he explains things I'd wondered about but never really bothered to ask, even myself. (I think this is the third book of his that I've read) The most recent aha moment: the name Hannah means favored by God. I know the Hannah story, where she prayed for a child and was blessed with her son, Samuel. I always kind of wondered, how did they know she was going to be favored by God when she was just a tiny baby and named her that? Oh! It's just a story! OK, that makes sense now! The other light bulb was the story of how Jesus' mom tried to stop him from teaching. If she was a virgin when he was conceived, how could she POSSIBLY forget who he was? It's not like pregnancy, birth, and raising a child are minor things! Ok, that's just a story, too. What I really like about how Spong writes is he asks the question, "what was it about their experience with Jesus that lead the gospel writers to write the things that they did?" That's a really eye-opening question, for me.

FWIW, the "theologically liberal Christian thread" was started (by me ) in response to a politically liberal Christian thread. I really wanted to talk with some folks who were exploring or already didn't take the Bible literally, do believe in a universal God, weren't necessarily interested in discussions of the end times, and believe other faith traditions also lead to God. But still in a Christian context. How those beliefs and exploration of those beliefs influence our political outlook would be for another thread. And of course we don't all believe the same exact thing, but this is a place to explore and be ok with others believing different things than us.

I don't make it on MDC as much as I did before, either, but I am thrilled to see this thread! My babe is almost 15 months and I don't have the 3 naps a day to do computer stuff that I did when she was younger! But that's ok, she is SO much fun right now!

[mysticmomma]

...didn't take the Bible literally, do believe in a universal God, weren't necessarily interested in discussions of the end times, and believe other faith traditions also lead to God. But still in a Christian context.

This is us. we also have somewhat of a pagan side to us, meaning we really appreciate and believe in the energy and spirit of all other living things (trees, algae, lions, etc).

[jenneology]

I'm not sure what the title means how you are thinking of it, but I think it might be applying to me. I've got an interesting pagan/humanist/Christian theology going on right now. This is kind of off topic, but I find that combination a difficult one when seeking out a political party. You know how spiritual beliefs tend to have an impact on all aspects of your life? Politics is included for me. Anyway, my story is that I was raised Unitarian Universalist, went on my "search for truth and meaning" adopted some pagan practices and then finally found my home in the LDS church. But I'm still not feeling entirely at home socially there because I have found few people who understand my draw to the pagan and humanist influences of my childhood.

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by hrsmom

Hi! I'm still here!!! Thanks for starting a summer thread! I'm in the middle of Jesus for the Non-Religious as well, and enjoying Bishop Spong's writing very much. I have "aha" moments all the time, where he explains things I'd wondered about but never really bothered to ask, even myself. (I think this is the third book of his that I've read) The most recent aha moment: the name Hannah means favored by God. I know the Hannah story, where she prayed for a child and was blessed with her son, Samuel. I always kind of wondered, how did they know she was going to be favored by God when she was just a tiny baby and named her that? Oh! It's just a story! OK, that makes sense now! The other light bulb was the story of how Jesus' mom tried to stop him from teaching. If she was a virgin when he was conceived, how could she POSSIBLY forget who he was? It's not like pregnancy, birth, and raising a child are minor things! Ok, that's just a story, too. What I really like about how Spong writes is he asks the question, "what was it about their experience with Jesus that lead the gospel writers to write the things that they did?" That's a really eye-opening question, for me.

I have had very similar experiences reading it too. There are a couple more by him in our library system that I'm going to check out. I bought Jesus for the Non-Religious last Friday and have not been able to put it down. I'm glad it was at the bookstore (it was the only Spong book I could find). I next want to read Why Christianity Must Change or Die.

FWIW, the "theologically liberal Christian thread" was started (by me ) in response to a politically liberal Christian thread. I really wanted to talk with some folks who were exploring or already didn't take the Bible literally, do believe in a universal God, weren't necessarily interested in discussions of the end times, and believe other faith traditions also lead to God. But still in a Christian context. How those beliefs and exploration of those beliefs influence our political outlook would be for another thread. And of course we don't all believe the same exact thing, but this is a place to explore and be ok with others believing different things than us.

I don't make it on MDC as much as I did before, either, but I am thrilled to see this thread! My babe is almost 15 months and I don't have the 3 naps a day to do computer stuff that I did when she was younger! But that's ok, she is SO much fun right now!

Your description above sounds very much like me - I'm on the exploring and really enjoying not taking the Bible literally spectrum, I definitely believe in what I would call a Universal God/Life Force, and believe that all paths are valid. After reading Spong's book, I feel like I can finally "justify" those beliefs if need be. If, as he puts forth, Jesus's mission was to awaken us to our full humanity, then I think all paths have that same oppurtunity. 'm not sure where I'll end up in terms of church, or if we'll end up in a church. I did tell dh I'd be willing to go check some out by myself since getting Gramma to babysit on a Sunday morning might be asking a bit (either for her to get to us in time or us getting the kids up and going to get them to her). Oh, and I apologize for putting polically liberal in my first post. I know for us as a family, a politicall liberal church (for me that means openly accepting and ordinating homosexual men and women, accepting pro-choice as equally valid as pro-life, and working to improve society regardless of religious beliefs (rather than our old church that did mission trips but under the guise of "sharing Jesus") is important. But, I agree with you - for purposes of this thread I definitely am looking to talk with others who are theologically liberal, non-literalist, non-end-of-times.

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by genifer

ok no time, but wanna know more. For me it depends on what you mean by liberal christian. bc Im kind of conservative in my personal beliefs but I dont necessarily believe politics and religion mix AT ALL. Im intrigued but not sure if Im the 'kind of liberal' you mean.

For me personally, being theologically liberal means that the Bible is not read literally, we are not a fallen people in need of salvation, and that Jesus taught a completely radical message that has been misconstrued by institutional church for 2000 years. hrsmom a couple posts above this one had a really good way of looking at it too. I invite you to stick around and be a part of the conversation.

[hrsmom]

How exciting to have some activity here!

I was expressing to a friend of mine (an awesome 80-year-old woman, mother of a former boyfriend, someone with whom I have enjoyed many conversations about spirituality and about healing) why I stopped going to my last church, and I felt like a heretic as I spoke. She was 100% supportive, and it was such a relief! I know I'm being pulled towards something different.

It's been quite a journey since my daughter was born! I had come to belief in a univesal God before she was born, and after she was born I realized I couldn't take her to a church that taught otherwise. I was viewing the Bible as a very human document, showing the struggles people of all ages have trying to figure out "God". I did take it more literally than I do now. Bishop Spong's writing blew the lid off of some things that I did take literally, but it was like a needed splash of cold water.

Oops, gotta go!

[mama_Agnieszka]

I'm new here but I think I fit right in!

Hi! I'm wondering, do any of your want to actually practice reading the bible? I'd love to take part in a theologically liberal discussion of parts of the bible... stories that mean something to you... Has anything like that been done here?

[*honeybee*]

subbing....great thread!

[genifer]

For me personally, being theologically liberal means that the Bible is not read literally, we are not a fallen people in need of salvation, and that Jesus taught a completely radical message that has been misconstrued by institutional church for 2000 years. hrsmom a couple posts above this one had a really good way of looking at it too. I invite you to stick around and be a part of the conversation.

Aaah, Well tbh, I genuinely respect your views and I understand what you mean by liberal christian a lot better but with all due respect, not sure if my views would be appropriate here. I actually believe the opposite of what you posted so maybe Im not the 'kind' of liberal this thread it catering to. lol. As far as the bible being read as completely literal, I actually believe there is a lot of it that is meant to be literal, but that we really dont understand the half of it. I agree the institutional church has REALLY messed things up... in every single aspect of faith. But I do believe Jesus, while he taught a completely radical message, and that in SO many ways it has been misconstrued, I do believe we are a fallen people in need of a Messiah and that He was/is that Messiah. So, I understand what you are saying and what you believe, and as you can see to a (albeit very small) extent I agree with you. Its kind of frustrating not 'fitting in' anywhere, but Im getting more and more ok with it the longer I walk this path. Thanks for the generous welcome tho.

gen

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Joining in. I rarely get this far down the page at MDC but this is a pretty reasonable description of me. I'm both a theologically and politically liberal Christian.

In addition to the Spong book, another that I really enjoyed was "The Good Book: Reading the Bible with Heart and Mind" by Rev. Peter Gomes.

[hrsmom]

Hi again! genifer, yeah, it's hard not fitting in, I wonder why so many of us feel that way? Even with different views... are there people who do feel like they fit in? I wonder!

mama_Agnieszka, I think if there's a part of the Bible you want to bring up, just mention it in this thread maybe? It's a tricky one, because this is a support forum, not a disucssion or debate forum (if I understand the guidelines correctly.) We've taken a few discussions to other forums, then people jump in and say we don't have "faith" and are cynical because we don't take the Bible literally, and it's not pretty. (Having stopped taking the Bible literally, I am finally starting to understand what "faith" is, actually!) But we all have a different journey, that's for sure.