the twins were born

[mama24-7]

I'll be calling my SIL later today to congrat her on the delivery of her twins (they were surgically delivered) & to tell her something else about pumping. I figure I can put in a last ditch effort on the phone to beg, if necessary, her to reconsider circ'ing them. As of yesterday, they were both doing very well, for having been born at 33 weeks. I was going to start that part of the convo by saying something like, "I hear your boys are just perfect." Part of me just wants to see where the convo goes but I'd also like to have something a little more to say if she just agrees w/ that. I was going to say something like, "I hope you keep them that way," but I don't want it to be about me at all. I was then thinking of saying something liek, "now that they're here & you can touch them & see them & they're real people, I thought you might be willing to hear why I care about their penis's so much." (Of course, I want to say something like their genital integrity or something like that, but I don't want her to hang up on me.).

What would you say?

TIA,
Sus

[SleeplessMommy]

I would try to find out how long they will be in the hospital (nicu I am guessing at 33 weeks?) From what I have heard, they do the procedure the day they send them home.

I think meeting her in the hospital cafeteria or some neutral place and trying to convince her in person will work better than over the phone. If they are NICU babies she will need support and encouragement over just recovering, bonding with them, pumping, and dealing with the stress of the situation all at the same time. I would do the support first (multiple visits if you can) and then provide the pro-intact info. "Haven't your precious babies been through enough." remember, she is in the middle of a massive post-pregnancy hormonal change right now.

Keep in mind, she may have never seen an intact baby before. She just has no idea what is lost and how useless/harmful the procedure is. She may be planning on doing it because she thinks everyone else does. If she and her partner have made up their minds, there may be nothing you can do. In some areas (East Coast USA) the doctors and nurses will treat the circ as a perfectly normal thing to do and reassure the worried Mom. Or even talk the Mom into it, if the Mom is wavering.

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

I would try to find out how long they will be in the hospital (nicu I am guessing at 33 weeks?) From what I have heard, they do the procedure the day they send them home.

I think meeting her in the hospital cafeteria or some neutral place and trying to convince her in person will work better than over the phone.

I'd love to do this but 1. I live 1.5 hours away 2. I'm due in about 2 weeks w/ my 3rd child 3. She hates me. The last time I came up in an IM convo between her & my dh (they're siblings), she stopped IM'ing him when he mentioned me. Oh, and she thinks her brother & I make our parenting decisions to be different from people, not because it's what we think is best.

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

If they are NICU babies she will need support and encouragement over just recovering, bonding with them, pumping, and dealing with the stress of the situation all at the same time. I would do the support first (multiple visits if you can) and then provide the pro-intact info. "Haven't your precious babies been through enough." remember, she is in the middle of a massive post-pregnancy hormonal change right now.

Keep in mind, she may have never seen an intact baby before. She just has no idea what is lost and how useless/harmful the procedure is. She may be planning on doing it because she thinks everyone else does. If she and her partner have made up their minds, there may be nothing you can do. In some areas (East Coast USA) the doctors and nurses will treat the circ as a perfectly normal thing to do and reassure the worried Mom. Or even talk the Mom into it, if the Mom is wavering.[/QUOTE]

I think I'll find out how long they're all supposed to be there & go from there. I also have a "caring for your circ'd son" pamphlet from nocirc that I was going to send her. Maybe if I can get that too her before they do it, if it happens at the end of the stay, that'd do it.

As I understand it, circ is pretty common where she lives. She has already told me they decided to, talked to the dr., & in spite of tactfully sending her information, she decided to be highly offended rather than look at one thing I sent. But this is a person who trusts her drs. w/o question & seems to not have a single thought of thinking for herself (this is based on over 5 years of seeing what she will/won't do to have a child).

I truly don't think there's much hope but dh seemed to think she may come around a little on some things. I don't know, part of me feels like I'll just be wasting my breath & contributing to her hating me even more (I won't take responsibility for her feelings).

Thanks for your reply.

Sus

[Fyrestorm]

I've actually heard circ day for NICU babies as a return to normalcy...in other words, the baby is well enough to get chopped up, so weve turned a corner.

[Kirsten]

Well, if she hates you, I think I'd rethink my plan on how to help the babies. I agree they deserve the help, but if she hates you she may circ them just to spite you. If she is on the fence, can see both sides, etc.

If you have given her all the info, there isn't much else you can do. It is ultimately her and her dp's decision. Is he open to the information? Do you have any other mutual friends or family who can give this message without it coming from you?

[4Blessings]

If you've already provided information to her I would not start a fight with her on the day her babies were born. She's gone through a twin pregnancy, c-section and her babies are in the NICU.

As much as you might hate the idea of her circ'ing the babies she does deserve a break and support for what she has been through. If you cannot provide the support at this time without discussing circ perhaps wait to call her for a few days.

[Eman'smom]

If she hates you, I'm assuming she doesn't respect you so anything you say will be meaningless to her and she won't believe anything you say anyway. If you've already provided the correct info that is really all you can do.

[mommy2maya]

Originally Posted by Proud2BeAnAmerican

If you've already provided information to her I would not start a fight with her on the day her babies were born. She's gone through a twin pregnancy, c-section and her babies are in the NICU.

As much as you might hate the idea of her circ'ing the babies she does deserve a break and support for what she has been through. If you cannot provide the support at this time without discussing circ perhaps wait to call her for a few days.

This. I had a preemie, albeit only one,a c-section and a very short nicu stay, and had ANYONE, much less my least liked SIL called to give me grief about my JUST BORN PREEMIE, well, it wouldn't be pretty. How very inconsiderate.

[mama24-7]

Thanks for the honest opinions. :

I did call her to offer her congrats & talk to her about something else. Left her a message.

Sus

[tutucrazy]

Can you send her an email? I have a document you could email her. Pm me with your email if you want it.

This is my last ditch effort email to my SIL and brother:

Dear......,

As the birth of your son approaches I have some thoughts that I would like to share with you both. I hope with the information I have provided you all have decided to give your son the choice over the function and appearance of his most private area. Bodily integrity is a human right for every person and I hope that you will foster this value with your children.

However, I know all to well that no matter how much evidence you present some parents they will circumcise their son or daughter regardless. I've been involved in this far too long to deny that fact. Here are some very important things to consider if you find yourself among this group of parents.

1. Do not circumcise your son for the first few weeks of his life. Hospital circumcisions are not only very traumatic and painful for newborns but they carry extremely high risks of complications. There is absolutely not reason to circumcise in the first days of life. Along with the high risks and trauma, it disrupts breastfeeding and sleep patterns. Please wait until Mason is at least 4 week old. This will not only give you the opportunity to see how easy it is to care for an intact boy it will allow him some time to adjust to life in the outside world and solidify a breastfeeding relationship. Remember you don't need to do anything to care for an intact boy. Only clean what is seen and never attempt to retract the foreskin (it is fused to glans).

Quick intact care video (2mins): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=367CR...om=PL&index=20

2. Do not allow your OB to perform this surgery. This is a very serious operation. Seek out a highly qualified pediatric urologist to perform the operation when he is a few weeks old. Be familiar with which type of circumcision your surgeon will be doing. Here are the two most common:

Video of a Plastibell Circumcision:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MLtxCwdMv0
Video of a Gomco Clamp Circumcision:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwBCE...eature=related

3. Insist that a penile nerve block be used for anesthetic. A numbing cream is not sufficient. If the surgeon refuses or if he otherwise downplays or dismisses the importance of anesthesia, look for another surgeon. A numbing cream can be used before the needle is injected into the base of the penis to reduce the discomforts. Pain relief should also be given in the recovery period. While a completely painless circumcision is impossible, you will significantly reduce the pain if you follow this step.

4. Both of you should be with your son during the circumcision. You must be there to see exactly what is happening behind closed doors. I can not express to you how important this is to ensure that the proper pain relief is provided. Remember this is going to be very real for him, stepping out into the waiting room does not change what is happening. Be with him! If you are not in the room you can never know what really happened.

Remember most importantly that this surgery is 100% unnecessary. You don't have to put your son or yourselves through this unnecessary operation.

I wish you all the best and hope that _______ has a gentle, peaceful entrance into this world.

All My Love,

[Quirky]

I'd stay out of it, too, only because she refuses to listen to you. I would try to have your dh be the messenger on this one -- is he on board?

I would just ask him to ask them to watch or listen to a circ being done at the NICU nursery. They may not get to for privacy reasons but it's worth a shot.

But if at all possible send your dh in person. Those babies aren't getting out of there in the next couple of days, they'll be there for a couple of weeks probably. Wait until things settle down a little, and send your dh with a cool present and a plea to look at those perfect little bodies and don't put them through any more pain.

[Kirsten]

Originally Posted by tutucrazy

This is my last ditch effort email to my SIL and brother:

Dear......,

As the birth of your son approaches I have some thoughts that I would like to share with you both. I hope with the information I have provided you all have decided to give your son the choice over the function and appearance of his most private area. Bodily integrity is a human right for every person and I hope that you will foster this value with your children.

However, I know all to well that no matter how much evidence you present some parents they will circumcise their son or daughter regardless. I've been involved in this far too long to deny that fact. Here are some very important things to consider if you find yourself among this group of parents.

1. Do not circumcise your son for the first few weeks of his life. Hospital circumcisions are not only very traumatic and painful for newborns but they carry extremely high risks of complications. There is absolutely not reason to circumcise in the first days of life. Along with the high risks and trauma, it disrupts breastfeeding and sleep patterns. Please wait until Mason is at least 4 week old. This will not only give you the opportunity to see how easy it is to care for an intact boy it will allow him some time to adjust to life in the outside world and solidify a breastfeeding relationship. Remember you don't need to do anything to care for an intact boy. Only clean what is seen and never attempt to retract the foreskin (it is fused to glans).

Quick intact care video (2mins): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=367CR...om=PL&index=20

2. Do not allow your OB to perform this surgery. This is a very serious operation. Seek out a highly qualified pediatric urologist to perform the operation when he is a few weeks old. Be familiar with which type of circumcision your surgeon will be doing. Here are the two most common:

Video of a Plastibell Circumcision:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MLtxCwdMv0
Video of a Gomco Clamp Circumcision:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwBCE...eature=related

3. Insist that a penile nerve block be used for anesthetic. A numbing cream is not sufficient. If the surgeon refuses or if he otherwise downplays or dismisses the importance of anesthesia, look for another surgeon. A numbing cream can be used before the needle is injected into the base of the penis to reduce the discomforts. Pain relief should also be given in the recovery period. While a completely painless circumcision is impossible, you will significantly reduce the pain if you follow this step.

4. Both of you should be with your son during the circumcision. You must be there to see exactly what is happening behind closed doors. I can not express to you how important this is to ensure that the proper pain relief is provided. Remember this is going to be very real for him, stepping out into the waiting room does not change what is happening. Be with him! If you are not in the room you can never know what really happened.

Remember most importantly that this surgery is 100% unnecessary. You don't have to put your son or yourselves through this unnecessary operation.

I wish you all the best and hope that _______ has a gentle, peaceful entrance into this world.

All My Love,

Wow, that is a great letter. Really informative but realistic and doesn't turn people defensive. Perfect!

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by tutucrazy

Can you send her an email? I have a document you could email her. Pm me with your email if you want it.

This is my last ditch effort email to my SIL and brother:

Dear......,

As the birth of your son approaches I have some thoughts that I would like to share with you both. I hope with the information I have provided you all have decided to give your son the choice over the function and appearance of his most private area. Bodily integrity is a human right for every person and I hope that you will foster this value with your children.

However, I know all to well that no matter how much evidence you present some parents they will circumcise their son or daughter regardless. I've been involved in this far too long to deny that fact. Here are some very important things to consider if you find yourself among this group of parents.

1. Do not circumcise your son for the first few weeks of his life. Hospital circumcisions are not only very traumatic and painful for newborns but they carry extremely high risks of complications. There is absolutely not reason to circumcise in the first days of life. Along with the high risks and trauma, it disrupts breastfeeding and sleep patterns. Please wait until Mason is at least 4 week old. This will not only give you the opportunity to see how easy it is to care for an intact boy it will allow him some time to adjust to life in the outside world and solidify a breastfeeding relationship. Remember you don't need to do anything to care for an intact boy. Only clean what is seen and never attempt to retract the foreskin (it is fused to glans).

Quick intact care video (2mins): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=367CR...om=PL&index=20

2. Do not allow your OB to perform this surgery. This is a very serious operation. Seek out a highly qualified pediatric urologist to perform the operation when he is a few weeks old. Be familiar with which type of circumcision your surgeon will be doing. Here are the two most common:

Video of a Plastibell Circumcision:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MLtxCwdMv0
Video of a Gomco Clamp Circumcision:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwBCE...eature=related

3. Insist that a penile nerve block be used for anesthetic. A numbing cream is not sufficient. If the surgeon refuses or if he otherwise downplays or dismisses the importance of anesthesia, look for another surgeon. A numbing cream can be used before the needle is injected into the base of the penis to reduce the discomforts. Pain relief should also be given in the recovery period. While a completely painless circumcision is impossible, you will significantly reduce the pain if you follow this step.

4. Both of you should be with your son during the circumcision. You must be there to see exactly what is happening behind closed doors. I can not express to you how important this is to ensure that the proper pain relief is provided. Remember this is going to be very real for him, stepping out into the waiting room does not change what is happening. Be with him! If you are not in the room you can never know what really happened.

Remember most importantly that this surgery is 100% unnecessary. You don't have to put your son or yourselves through this unnecessary operation.

I wish you all the best and hope that _______ has a gentle, peaceful entrance into this world.

All My Love,

Wonderful, with one critique: 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence...should be "all too well" rather than "all to well."

[tutucrazy]

Originally Posted by emma1325

Wonderful, with one critique: 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence...should be "all too well" rather than "all to well."

THANK YOU! Big typo of one of my biggest pet peeves!

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by tutucrazy

THANK YOU! Big typo of one of my biggest pet peeves!

YW! I thought you might want it brought to your attention since you're circulating it.

[liliaceae]

I agree with PP's that if she hates you, there is nothing you can do. Could your DH possibly talk to her at some point (assuming this is his sister)?