opinions wanted

[2xy]

My kids' dad and I have been divorced for four years. We're both remarried. The kids and I live in Rhode Island with my husband. This is not my....er....place of origin. This is where we were stationed when we separated. We were stationed here three separate times and I always liked New England, so I stayed.

Anyway, since our split, my ex has been on two overseas assignments. One was for six months and the other was for about 18 months. He's now back in the states, but he lives in Virginia. He's been back since February.

While he was away on his long tour, he brought the boys to see him and they stayed for two months. They returned in February '08. He has had two "drive-by" visits with them since then, while he was passing through Rhode Island to go elsewhere. Each visit lasted about four hours. He doesn't call anymore. He blew off Christmas and the older kid's birthday, which irritates me to no end.

I've been bugging him for a small increase in support, since he doesn't do anything else for them and we're kind of struggling. He's refused, and we're going to court for that in August. I explained to him in a somewhat pleasant way that if he's going to be an absentee parent (emotionally as well as physically), the least he can do is send a few extra bucks. Our child support agreement was based on the situation at the time of our divorce; he lived nearby and had them for regular visits. He fed them, bought them things they needed/wanted, took them out, etc. None of that happens anymore.

So, after I explained all of that, he said he wants the boys to come see him at the beginning of August and stay through the end of September. I realize that they're teens and they want to go, but I just think it's ridiculous to have a yearly visit that lasts two months. Now that he's back on American soil and relatively close, geographically, I see no reason why they can't visit more often and stay for shorter periods of time. I feel like he's just trying to prove that he spends time with the kids.

I'm not going to say the boys can't go. They're old enough to make up their own minds. I'm just wondering if I'm being unreasonable in being annoyed. Two months is a long time, and I miss them when they're gone. Of course, I can't very well accuse him of being an absentee father, and then complain about a lengthy visit.

[ProtoLawyer]

Are your kids in school? Would this two-month visit interfere with that?

That would be my problem with that schedule.

[dawn872]

I don't think yours in an atypical situation. Unfortunate but a reality these days. As far as this visit goes, you should stick with EXACTLY what is in the divorce visitation setup. If he is an evey other weekend dad, set up those days in a calendar and give that to the dad and let him visit on those days-- no 2 months in a row. I agree with the other comment that the two month visitation must interfere with their school schedule. Be the responsible parent you seem to be already and let the dad work on his own relationship with the kids in the confines of the court ordered visitation. In the long run, if you provide a stable and loving environment, it will help your little ones feel secure even when their dad is in and out of the picture.

[VocalMinority]

In our state at least, 2-month (well, technically 7-week) visits in the summer are the standard for out-of-state non-custodial parents.

My 10-y-o step-son is out for his 7 weeks with his mom right now, and it's rough. I think the magic number of 7 weeks was chosen back when average summer breaks from school were 13 weeks (so NCP got "1/2 the summer" plus an extra week). But now school summers are around 10 weeks, so we enjoyed just 2 weeks off school with him before he went to see his mom and after he comes home, we'll have just 9 days with him before school starts again. Basically, we can either go on vacation with him OR let him have some much-needed time to just hang out at home without the structure of a school schedule...we don't have time for both. But the bottom line is, my husband's grateful enough that he has custody. He's not about to go back to court and argue that 7 weeks is outdated and his ex should get a week or two LESS with their son. When he was NCP, he would have been devastated if she'd done that to him.

I take it yours are homeschooled, since it doesn't seem to matter which months they visit their dad? That would make a 2-month visit easier on your schedule, if not your heart.

Maybe your ex IS just preparing to get credit in court for spending time with them and covering their expenses for some period of the year. (But I imagine if he weren't frustrating or difficult on some level, you'd still want to be married to him, right? "Expect a drunk to act like a drunk", as my Dad always says. Or a lackluster father to act like a...you get what I'm saying.) If you resist having the kids visit him, after complaining about his involvement, he will surely conclude you only want to squeeze more money out of him. People tend to assume the worst of each other after they're divorced. But if he's not an abusive criminal - and your boys WANT to spend time with him - then it's good for them to believe their dad wants that time with them, too, regardless if his true motives are crummy. And the court would almost certainly let him have the time. You may as well save your money and not spend time on that issue, when you go.

Or maybe your ex is one of those who avoids things he feels guilty about. My ex is. We have twin boys with some mild/moderate developmental delays and he and I split up when they were 2. He had zero experience with toddlers before them anyway and they were kind of a handful. Basically, the only thing worse for him than having to be around ME when he spent time with them was having to take care of them WITHOUT me! So he would miss a couple of his Saturdays with them because he "just had to" go in to the office, or he "forgot", or "something came up"...then he'd avoid seeing them a couple more Saturdays because he'd feel guilty and not want to face me. Although he deserved my criticism/scolding/complaints, he was a better, more reliable father when I held my tongue and didn't make him feel worse.

I'm saying try not to give your ex a hard time, if he's doing the right thing now. You'll miss your boys, but be grateful you're not the one who only sees them for two months!

BTW, is he stationed in VA, or did he choose to land permanently in a different state from his kids?

[Oriole]

Yep to everything Jeannine said.

Regardless of "why", it certainly will be good for the kids to see their dad for two months if they want to go. Maybe some reality of the situation will sink in for them as well, but they should have this chance.

Money wise - this wouldn't be worth the fight for me, personally (we are not getting CS, and DSD's mom didn't see her regularly for almost a year, before visitations picked up), but financially, we are on out own. We COULD take her to court, but it would not do well for DSD. Some fights are just not worth it.

[pinksprklybarefoot]

The two-month visit for an out-of-state NC parent doesn't seem that strange to me... It is pretty common to have that plus various visits during the school year (if they go to school).

Honestly, if my kids were homeschooled, I would prefer that they have 2 1-month visits vs 1 2-month visit, but that is just me. Is this a transportation costs issue?

I can understand a parent wanting a longer chunks of time. With the shorter breaks, it seems that they are over just as soon as everyone is getting comfortable.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by ProtoLawyer

Are your kids in school? Would this two-month visit interfere with that?

No, they're homeschooled. I didn't think to mention that because...well...it isn't anything out of the ordinary for us, IYKWIM.

Originally Posted by dawn872

As far as this visit goes, you should stick with EXACTLY what is in the divorce visitation setup.

Because he's in the military, our divorce agreement just says "reasonable visitation." You can't stick to a schedule when one parent is deployable.

Originally Posted by dawn872

In the long run, if you provide a stable and loving environment, it will help your little ones feel secure even when their dad is in and out of the picture.

Security is not really an issue. My boys are 17 and almost 14. They are surprisingly well-adjusted. The younger one is a bit bothered by his dad's lack of initiative, but he has learned to live with it.

Originally Posted by Jeannine

In our state at least, 2-month (well, technically 7-week) visits in the summer are the standard for out-of-state non-custodial parents.

I guess I don't know anyone IRL who is in my situation, so I didn't know that this is common.

Originally Posted by Jeannine

(But I imagine if he weren't frustrating or difficult on some level, you'd still want to be married to him, right? "Expect a drunk to act like a drunk", as my Dad always says. Or a lackluster father to act like a...you get what I'm saying.)

Well, sort of. He has been a lackluster father for years, but not always, and not this bad. As for being married....I wasn't the one who left the marriage. He left me for another woman, via Dear Jane letter. So yeah, he's a d-bag in other ways. We're in far less harmony now that we've split up than we were when we were together. Whatever problems were in our marriage, we always got along well.

Originally Posted by Jeannine

I'm saying try not to give your ex a hard time, if he's doing the right thing now. You'll miss your boys, but be grateful you're not the one who only sees them for two months!

BTW, is he stationed in VA, or did he choose to land permanently in a different state from his kids?

He is stationed in Virginia. He won't be near the kids at all, even after he retires in 2011. His wife is on active duty, too. It's not likely they'll get stationed here again; they've worn out their welcome at this command.

As for being grateful I get to see them the rest of the year....I am, and I have tried to view it that way. Then it makes me mad. I'm not the one who destroyed our family. He chose to cheat, chose to move out, and chose to do a whole lot of other small things that were damaging to our children's emotional well-being (for example, moving his girlfriend and her child into our home the second we moved out of it). He chose overseas orders so he could be stationed with his wife. He chose the woman over his kids, the way I see it. I don't feel a bit sorry for him.

Originally Posted by pinksprklybarefoot

Honestly, if my kids were homeschooled, I would prefer that they have 2 1-month visits vs 1 2-month visit, but that is just me. Is this a transportation costs issue?

Well, it was when he was stationed on Guam. Now I think it's just a "see what I can do and you can't do a thing about it" issue. Honestly, I don't know what's going through his head. He told me and the boys last November that he'd be back in the states in February and he was going to have them for a visit immediately. Nothing ever happened.

Now he's telling them that they're moving into a bigger house, and won't be in it until July 27. Apparently, there is no room for the boys to visit at this time. However, he sent pictures of the house to the kids via email when they first moved in. It looks plenty big enough to me.

[VocalMinority]

As for being grateful I get to see them the rest of the year....I am, and I have tried to view it that way. Then it makes me mad. I'm not the one who destroyed our family. He chose to cheat, chose to move out, and chose to do a whole lot of other small things that were damaging to our children's emotional well-being (for example, moving his girlfriend and her child into our home the second we moved out of it). He chose overseas orders so he could be stationed with his wife. He chose the woman over his kids, the way I see it. I don't feel a bit sorry for him.[/QUOTE]

Mmm...that's a tough one. When my ex and I first split up, I also felt like it was mostly his fault. He definitely was more self-absorbed, inconsiderate and clueless about our kids than I was, and his expectations of what life ought to be like for 23-year-old parents of special-needs twins were completely unreasonable. He was way too focused on how "unfair" everything was to him, where I was focused on the kids' needs...and I was just really ticked with him!! Not the same as your situation, but like you, I felt that if his selfishness and immaturity and his decision to leave were what broke up our home - and I was doing most of the parenting work, why should I have to suffer being away from my kids, missing holidays with them, etc.?

But, of course, once the divorce happens, it simply isn't about whose fault it was, it's about the kids needing both parents, however imperfect they are.

In saying you should be grateful you're the custodial parent, I didn't mean feel sorry for your ex. I really just meant that here are these two great boys that you love, and there are plenty of parents in our country who have to send their kids away to their ex's every other week, or who don't have custody and must wait 'til the summer to spend any real time with their children...and thank God you don't have to do that!

Growing up, my best friend's mom was divorced and I remember her telling us how important it was for her to have things she loved doing when the kids were with their dad. Maybe you can find a personal indulgence in Aug./Sept. that you usually deny yourself when your boys are around? Then you won't do as much sitting around missing them, and they won't feel guilty for leaving you alone.

[aricha]

Originally Posted by Jeannine

But, of course, once the divorce happens, it simply isn't about whose fault it was, it's about the kids needing both parents, however imperfect they are.

Beautifully said, Jeannine.

My 6-yr-old step-daughter is about to arrive for 9 weeks with us for her summer break, so I don't see two months with teenagers as being too much, especially if they want to go.

I do understand being a irked about his motivations, but whatever his reasoning is for stepping up, at least he is stepping up... ultimately, that's what is important to your kids. And, as a child of divorced parents, I am not only grateful to my dad for having been there for me while I was growing up, despite the physical distance, I am grateful to my mom for her part in supporting our relationship with our dad.

[2xy]

Is it unreasonable of me to still want him to communicate with me about visits rather than going through the kids? I feel like he intentionally leaves me in the dark.

For example....they are supposed to leave sometime in the next week or two (I heard this second-hand), and I still have no travel information. My son wants me to plan a last-minute birthday party for him, so that he can celebrate with his friends before he leaves, and I don't know when we can do it. For all I know, I'll get an itinerary in my email that says they're gonna leave on Wednesday.

Ugh.

[2xy]

I wonder how they handle visitation in states where school is year-round, like in my home state. They only get a few weeks off at at time....no long summer breaks.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by aricha

And, as a child of divorced parents, I am not only grateful to my dad for having been there for me while I was growing up, despite the physical distance, I am grateful to my mom for her part in supporting our relationship with our dad.

It sounds like you had a good dad. My ex has no idea what's going on with his kids.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by 2xy

I wonder how they handle visitation in states where school is year-round, like in my home state. They only get a few weeks off at at time....no long summer breaks.

I think it would be easier to split time on a year-round schedule.

#1- As I mentioned before, the standard here is that an out-of-state NCP gets 7 weeks of a summer that's only ~10 weeks long, anymore. And year-round schools still have ~6 weeks off in the summer. So the NCP would have a shorter summer visit - but it wouldn't have to be that much shorter.

#2- Here, out-of-state NCPs get one week of Christmas break, which is only ~2 weeks, so the poor kid is constantly traveling and doesn't enjoy substantial down-time at either parent's house. Year-round schools have longer Christmas breaks. So not only could a NCP make up time "lost" in the summer visit, but both parents might enjoy more time with their kid.

#3- Here, the only other time an out-of-state NCP is guaranteed to see their kid is spring break, which is only 1 week. But the NCP gets it every year, so the custodial parent's only time with the kid when he/she is out of school is a little bit of the summer and a week at Christmas. However, year-round schools often have 2 weeks off in the spring and a week in the fall. So the NCP could get spring break every year and the CP could get fall, or they could switch, or the CP could get half of spring break...

I think the year-round schedule would do a much better job of letting the kid have "regular" contact with an out-of-state parent, throughout the year.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Is it unreasonable of me to still want him to communicate with me about visits rather than going through the kids? I feel like he intentionally leaves me in the dark.

For example....they are supposed to leave sometime in the next week or two (I heard this second-hand), and I still have no travel information. My son wants me to plan a last-minute birthday party for him, so that he can celebrate with his friends before he leaves, and I don't know when we can do it. For all I know, I'll get an itinerary in my email that says they're gonna leave on Wednesday.

Ugh.

Here, there's a clearly-worded standard that divorced parents aren't allowed to communicate through the kids. With all the conflicting versions of events in my husband's case with his ex, the court specifically ordered them to communicate via e-mail, so there's a record.

Our state also has a specific deadline (~2 months before the end of school) for the NCP to notify the CP - in writing - what dates the children will travel with him/her during the summer. If the NCP misses that deadline, the CP gets to set the dates for the summer. (Of course, the CP still has to give the NCP the full amount of time he/she's entitled to, but the NCP must comply with the dates the CP sets.)

It sounds like you need to go to court (or mediation), to establish clear parameters if your ex plans to get more involved, now.

[FallingLeaves]

When I saw that your ex is in Virginia, I couldn't help but to think of this because we live in Virginia. My DH wanted to increase visitation and his ex wouldn't agree because if DSS spent more than 60 or 90 days with us per year, it effected the child support she received. I'm sorry I can't remember now if it is 60 or 90 days. For your DS's sake, I hope he is really interested in becoming a more involved father but I wanted to mention that because he might be trying to figure out a way to pay less support.

[2xy]

I actually have a court day tomorrow, but it's just for support, I think. I don't think the state family courts will help with mediation. I could ask, though.

As for what JL'smom mentioned....I don't understand how that can be. If my ex were to live nearby and have the typical every-Wednesday-and-every-other-weekend visitation, the boys would spend 96 days per year with him and the support would be affected at all.

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by 2xy

My kids' dad and I have been divorced for four years. We're both remarried. The kids and I live in Rhode Island with my husband.

Anyway, since our split, my ex has been on two overseas assignments. One was for six months and the other was for about 18 months. He's now back in the states, but he lives in Virginia. He's been back since February.

While he was away on his long tour, he brought the boys to see him and they stayed for two months. They returned in February '08. He has had two "drive-by" visits with them since then, while he was passing through Rhode Island to go elsewhere. Each visit lasted about four hours. He doesn't call anymore. He blew off Christmas and the older kid's birthday, which irritates me to no end.

It's probably difficult to be a more present father when you're overseas and there is an adjustment when one returns from overseas.

I've been bugging him for a small increase in support, since he doesn't do anything else for them and we're kind of struggling. He's refused, and we're going to court for that in August. I explained to him in a somewhat pleasant way that if he's going to be an absentee parent (emotionally as well as physically), the least he can do is send a few extra bucks. Our child support agreement was based on the situation at the time of our divorce; he lived nearby and had them for regular visits. He fed them, bought them things they needed/wanted, took them out, etc. None of that happens anymore.

Well, I disagree with asking for more child support to compensate for less time. Although from the sounds of things, he isn't spending less time with them. It sounds like his overseas job has always interfered or been a factor in his parenting style.

So, after I explained all of that, he said he wants the boys to come see him at the beginning of August and stay through the end of September. I realize that they're teens and they want to go, but I just think it's ridiculous to have a yearly visit that lasts two months. Now that he's back on American soil and relatively close, geographically, I see no reason why they can't visit more often and stay for shorter periods of time. I feel like he's just trying to prove that he spends time with the kids.

He likely realized, after talking with you, that he can spend more time with his boys and needs to make the adjustment. How you feel about his intentions are irrelevant as long as he is spending time with them. You can't possibly be certain what his intentions are, but giving the man the benefit of the doubt, and assuming he realizes he can spend more time with his boys, and that he wants to, can do no harm. It would likely help his relationship with them which is best for them anyway. This shouldn't, especially after four years, be about what you think, or what he thinks, or what you each think the other is thinking. It should be about ensuring they maintain a relationship with both their parents. If Long visits work out during the summer, and the kids love this, then I'd bet this is best for them, for their personalities, and is best for allowing them extended time with the other parent so they can 'live' with that parent and experience daily life with that parent, something that you get all the time.

I'm not going to say the boys can't go. They're old enough to make up their own minds. I'm just wondering if I'm being unreasonable in being annoyed. Two months is a long time, and I miss them when they're gone. Of course, I can't very well accuse him of being an absentee father, and then complain about a lengthy visit.

I think you being annoyed is perfectly natural. And of course, you miss them, and I think that is the heart of the issue here. It's not about the child support, it's about you will miss them when they're gone for so long. I bet he misses them when they are with you the rest of the year and perhaps short visits only hurt them all more. Perhaps, this extended summer visit is healthiest for everyone involved.

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by JL'smom

When I saw that your ex is in Virginia, I couldn't help but to think of this because we live in Virginia. My DH wanted to increase visitation and his ex wouldn't agree because if DSS spent more than 60 or 90 days with us per year, it effected the child support she received. I'm sorry I can't remember now if it is 60 or 90 days. For your DS's sake, I hope he is really interested in becoming a more involved father but I wanted to mention that because he might be trying to figure out a way to pay less support.

But even if this were true, it just simply doesn't matter.

And I think this is worth repeating:

Originally Posted by Jeannine

But, of course, once the divorce happens, it simply isn't about whose fault it was, it's about the kids needing both parents, however imperfect they are.

Originally Posted by aricha

Beautifully said, Jeannine.

I do understand being a irked about his motivations, but whatever his reasoning is for stepping up, at least he is stepping up... ultimately, that's what is important to your kids. And, as a child of divorced parents, I am not only grateful to my dad for having been there for me while I was growing up, despite the physical distance, I am grateful to my mom for her part in supporting our relationship with our dad.

..... regardless of what kind of father he is!

[FallingLeaves]

In Virginia, there is a standard formula to calculate child support. That formula takes into account the 24 hour periods the child spends with the non custodial parent. So with the standard EOW and 4 weeks in the summer, that's about 82 days a year. Wednesday afternoon/evening visits don't count if they aren't for 24 hours. So the standard formula assumes the child will spend 82 (24 hour periods) a year with the non custodial parent and the child support formula reflects that. So if the child spends more than 90 days (24 hour periods) with the non custodial parent, the child support changes because the non custodial parent will be caring for the child more than the standard formula calculated.

In our situation, DH wanted to spend more time with DSS because he had been deployed and had missed out on visitation. DSS's mom would not officially agree to a change in visitation because if DSS spent more than 90 (24 hour periods) with us, there would be an adjustment in the child support she received.

Like I said in my previous post, I hope your ex really wants to become a more involved father. Every child deserves that, but there are parents who are motivated by money - that's what we deal with with DSS's mom so I just wanted to share what I knew about child support and visitation in VA. If I remember correctly from the OP, the ex requested the two month visitation after a slight increase in support was requested. I'm not saying he shouldn't get to visit with his children, I'm just thinking his intentions may be more motivated by money than sincerety.

I'm not saying the children shouldn't go, but I would be annoyed too. There's no excuse for him not visiting, not calling, blowing off Christmas, and blowing off a birthday. My DH spends a lot of time overseas, and he calls and emails DSS as much as he can. DH misses out on a lot but he makes up for it when he gets back. Like I said, there is no excuse for what your ex has been doing.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by JL'smom

There's no excuse for him not visiting, not calling, blowing off Christmas, and blowing off a birthday. My DH spends a lot of time overseas, and he calls and emails DSS as much as he can. DH misses out on a lot but he makes up for it when he gets back. Like I said, there is no excuse for what your ex has been doing.

Thank you.

I should also mention that he has been back in the states since February 1st. He had told the boys last fall that he would bring them down as soon as he got back. They've been waiting and wondering for six months, and watching DS2's disappointment has been heartwrenching. DS1 is not as sentimental and also remembers enough about the manner in which we divorced that he is not surprised when his dad does this stuff.

As for Virginia's laws, I don't think they matter for us. We got divorced in Rhode Island and that's where the children reside. It's Rhode Island law that affects us, and I don't believe that visitation is figured into calculating child support.