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Want to avoid induction/c-section tomorrow

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
My sister is 41 weeks pregnant today with her first, and a BPP today showed slightly low (8 cm) levels of amniotic fluid. She is scheduled for an induction tomorrow morning, and we really want to try to get labor to kick in today. We're not really counting on that, since there are absolutely no signs of imminent labor, but any ideas on that front would be welcomed. The doctor gave her an enema (the ultrasound also showed she was a little backed up) and said she was welcome to use it if it would make her more comfortable - I'm thinking that could help her jump-start.

There are two other issues. She absolutely does not want an epidural, but is very concerned about pain management and coping while unable to eat/drink, move around, potentially more pain due to pitocin, etc. Any helpful hints for this situation? She also very much wants to avoid a c-section, and she is particularly worried because low fluid levels are associated with much higher c-section rates for fetal distress due to cord compression.

I am doing research for much of today, but anything extra you ladies have to offer would be invaluable.

Also! Does anybody have any experience with St. David's in Austin, TX? That is where she is delivering.
post #2 of 17
8 cm is really not that low. I'd suggest she wait for another BPP in 2 days instead of accepting induction tomorrow. I'm looking through my archives and will bbl.
post #3 of 17
And she should hydrate hydrate hydrate!
post #4 of 17
what was her overall bpp score?
post #5 of 17
I don't know much about low fluid levels, BUT, I can say from experience that a natural birth is not out of the question even with induction.

I was on pitocin with an induced labor and was adamant about being free to move about, shower, walk, etc. The hospital was accommodating and it made my pain tolerance much better. I still drank water and sneaked a few bites here and there for energy. I showered and spent a lot of time on the toilet to help with pain. They couldn't really make me lie down when I had to "go" I guess I'm just throwing out some support that even if she still ends up with induction. (hopefully not!) she can still go without the epidural if she chooses.

I hope everything works out well for her!
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Doctor didn't tell her the overall score, just that baby was otherwise fine. He has been moving lots and his heart rate is strong. She really wanted a home birth with a midwife but medicaid doesn't cover it in TX. She said she has accepted being in the medical model. She doesn't feel comfortable going against what her doctor suggests because it makes her worry too much to be doing things "on her own". I didn't think 8 cm sounded that low either, especially for 41 weeks. The other issue is my family is only in town until Saturday and she said if she's going to end up getting induced Thursday or Friday anyway she'd rather have him here when we will still be around. I'm trying to be supportive of that since I don't want to make her mistrust a caregiver that she is stuck with. Thanks for your suggestion on hydration, she has been drinking tons of water and iced red raspberry leaf tea, its been 110 degrees here everyday! I can see how she might still be dehydrated.
post #7 of 17
Did she get a Bishop's score? I don't know tons about it but my understanding is that it's based on assessment of the cervix & it is a very good predictor of how ready her body is for induction. In other words - low Bishop's score means induction is less likely to work (& therefore she'll end up with CS - if not for fetal distress, then FTP.) So if she does have a low score, hopefully that will make her question induction even more.

GL!
post #8 of 17
I would argue that 8 isn't that low either. I personally wouldn't consent to an induction until 5 unless something else was wrong. Fluid levels natually go down at the end of a pregnancy. I honestly think it probably has more to do wtih her being 41 weeks since many doctors are afraid to let someone go that long. I agree with the pp in that if she is seriously considering the induction she should make the decision knowing her Bishop's score.

I know someone who went through the same thing recently and wound up with a c/s after a failed induction.

Hope everythings works out well for her.
post #9 of 17
according to the nursingbirth.com blog, between 5 and 25 is normal. I've heard 8cm being called low before by drs, but everything I've read says it's not. Has her dr bothered to tell her that an induction is 50% more likely to end in a c/s?
post #10 of 17
I agree with everyone else....that doesn't sound extremely low.....I have heard of mamas having a pitocin induced labor without an epi but all of their labors were really short 6 hrs. or less and most of those were already in labor or at least dilated some already.....I know a lot of mainstream mamas and most of them had pitocin and the majority (except for the few that went fast, etc.) of them did end up with epi's. None of them were absolutely adament about having epi's either....

I had a pitocin induced labor with my first and I went into it NOT wanting an epi...I didn't even sign for it in the beginning hoping it would delay me getting it......The best advice I can give is just have her DEMAND that she be allowed to be mobile , I was not allowed out of bed except for they let me get in the rocking chair for about an hour (big whoop! ) and some really nice nurse actually gave me some juice because I was so hungry and thirsty. I did end up with the epi but I was not dilated at all or even thinned out when they started the pit. and my labor was 24 hrs. with 13 hrs of that with pit. going as high as they could get it.

And MOST of all just tell her to be willing to go with the flow...I was so devestated when I had to get the epi, I held off as long as I could but when they started talking c-sec because I had only dilated 1/2 cm in 7 hrs. I caved and it actually was what I NEEDED and did help, after I got it I went from 2 cm to complete in only 4 hrs. and avoided the c-sec.

If she is worried about the low fluid levels she could also try some natural "induction" methods....like accupunture, accupressure or reflexology (which worked for ds but I was about 41 weeks).

Sorry for my long post....I hope everything goes well for her!
post #11 of 17
I would also avoid/refuse the induction tomorrow. Hope you can persuade her!

However, having labored with pit (augmented, not induced), my advice would be to:

- eat/drink as much as she needs to...even if it's stuff like honey, applesauce, yogurt--soft foods high in calories/protein

- insist on a portable monitor so she can move around, get in the tub etc. I demanded one after giving in to the pit and it made my unmedicated vag birth possible. It was super annoying, because every time I changed position they lost the signal and had to adjust the band (nurse would put it in position and say "ok, is this the position you want to be in?" ), but still--way better than being stuck in bed. They're also waterproof, btw, so she could labor in the tub

- refuse to have her water broken or any vag exams. That's what really puts you on the clock, and esp if she's already theoretically at risk for cord prolapse...not going to happen if your water isn't broken yet

Also, in the meantime, she might try a Webster chiro adjustment to help get baby in the best possible position to get labor moving forward--it can really help a lot.
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
She is 2 cm dilated, and 50% effaced. At her 40 week appointment last Tuesday, she was 2 cm and 75% effaced. So there's no forward movement and no more effacement. She had some strong contractions every day a few weeks ago which is what opened her up to 2cm, but nothing since then. It looks like this induction is happening unless labor starts spontaneously in the next 12 or so hours.
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo View Post
I honestly think it probably has more to do wtih her being 41 weeks since many doctors are afraid to let someone go that long.
Absolutely! I was thinking that too... I just didn't bother to type it since it struck me as obvious to all on these boards. Sad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo View Post
I know someone who went through the same thing recently and wound up with a c/s after a failed induction.
Unfortunaltey, it's not just someone you know. Inductions are more likely to fail with first time Mamas & leading to CS.
post #14 of 17
i think that if she is moving foward with the induction, than a number of things can help:

1. sex--get dad involved to help condition the cervix and make contractions happen (family visiting needs to give them some space!);

2. evening primrose oil suppositories in the vagina after sex can help ripen the cervix as well;

3. good foods and lots of hydration (including red raspberry leaf tea which helps to tone the uterus and makes contractions work better. technically, she could/should have been doing this the last trimester, but better late than never, better some than none!);

4. a positive environment and mental attitude--everyone should pitch in to support her! remind her that she's doing an aweome job, that she's going to have a great birth, and that she can do it! give space, give support, etc.

5. while laboring and birthing, while it didn't work for me, touch from her husband including kisses are very helpful. it helps relax the whole body, but particularly the vagina and allows it to stretch more easily.

6. follow the specialized medical-model advice above about monitors, vag exams, etc.

good luck to her and i hope that you all have a great update for us soon!
post #15 of 17
Fluid levels vary so much, depending on days, times, technician. I'd not induce just based on that unless it was an incredibly ridiculously low nmber. 8 is in the normal range.

I had "low fluid" for weeks before baby was born. When he was born, I gushed for hours and hours. My midwife laughed that we were told low fluid for so long.

With that said, is the doctor willing to let her moved around, etc. on pitocin? I think that helped me tremendously with my last (pitocin induced due to water breaking and labor not starting).
post #16 of 17
Boo! I bet the doc is just finding a way to get the pregnancy done since she is 41 weeks (normal average for first time moms). 8 isn't that concerning at all. Have her drink some extra fluids is all.

I was induced (pre-e) and wouldn't recommend it. I was very lucky that it worked but also had to tell the dr. no to a c-section. Very hard to try to go naturally and to even succeed at a vaginal birth once the pitocin starts.

It can be done better with a lot of discussion about monitoring and movement and a slow progression of pit. But it is still an uphill battle. It can be done, but hard? Yes!

Now we all have stories about how if you do x it will work. It may work if you are close to ready. For me I wanted to give birth when my dh was home that day. Not thinking it would actually work but I:

Had sex.
Ate spicy Chilli and went for a 2 hour walk

I had the baby the next day, contractions started that night.

Primrose oil inserted to soften the cervix was begun by my midwife as well.

If labor doesn't start, talk to the dr about a biophysical profile tomorrow instead of an induction. Make sure she is well hydrated. If that passes, have her discuss with her dr. about waiting x amount of days.

And if in x amount of days she still hasn't given birth, talk to said dr. about monitoring, movement etc.
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by esmicosaquehago View Post
Doctor didn't tell her the overall score, just that baby was otherwise fine. He has been moving lots and his heart rate is strong. She really wanted a home birth with a midwife but medicaid doesn't cover it in TX. She said she has accepted being in the medical model. She doesn't feel comfortable going against what her doctor suggests because it makes her worry too much to be doing things "on her own". I didn't think 8 cm sounded that low either, especially for 41 weeks. The other issue is my family is only in town until Saturday and she said if she's going to end up getting induced Thursday or Friday anyway she'd rather have him here when we will still be around. I'm trying to be supportive of that since I don't want to make her mistrust a caregiver that she is stuck with. Thanks for your suggestion on hydration, she has been drinking tons of water and iced red raspberry leaf tea, its been 110 degrees here everyday! I can see how she might still be dehydrated.
If the baby is doing great and her fluid is above borderline she REALLY shouldn't induce. PLEASE PLEASE have her read this thread. Or copy, paste and print the replies. Low fluid levels CANNOT be accurately determined in one u/s. If the babe is doing well then mum should have a couple of days of rest and lots of water and then reevaluate with another u/s. They cannot accurately measure anything behind the baby and other factors can cause a u/s to show lower levels than are actually there.

I was 41w3d when I went in for a u/s per recommendation of my midwife just to confirm all was well. Everything was great except he didn't respond much when the u/s pounded on my belly (owe!!!). The u/s tech brought in the doc and they both suggested I induce immediately. My heart sank. When my mom and I got to the car she said she thought he wasn't responding because I was probably in early labour. I'd had no contractions or "progress" whatsoever but that day I had mild sporatic contractions throughout the day. We went home and called my midwife and she agreed completely. My water broke at 11pm that night and I went into active labour within minutes and gave birth at 5:21 am. Can you imagine what might have happened had I induced when there was no other concern? Mind you I had NO effacement or dialation just a couple days prior, he hadn't even dropped, and we had a great, quick labour and birth.

PLEASE urge her to wait. It is most common for first time moms to spontaneously birth sometime in the 41st week. With an induction her risk of a cesarean more than doubles (and unless she has a rare amazing hospital/ob, which I doubt based on the reason for recommending induction, she has on average a 30% chance as it is). She can go in for a repeat u/s tomorrow or the next day instead. She does not have to induce. And her ob sounds "iffy" on his reasons for induction so it's reason enough to be cautious about his ability to provide her with a successful and safe birth. I understand she wants and needs her family there but the risks of induction are not worth it. Imagine if she has a cesarean - family certainly won't be around the length she'll need with recovery. Or, worse, if she or the baby end up with serious problems from the induction and/or cesarean. The risks are numerous and VERY real, just harmfully downplayed for convenience. An induction, and moreso a possible resulting cesarean, can also affect breastfeeding. It can delay the transition from colostrum to mature milk, make positioning harder, make mum and/or baby too sleepy to adequately get started in the first important days, etc. Being a mom means making decisions based on what's right for your child, weighing risks, and obs are notorious for basing their decisions on premature fear (usually more of getting in trouble than the baby or mom being harmed) and/or convenience. It is so sad and unfortunate, but it is the case the vast majority of the time.

I know a woman who was unnecessarily induced because she refused to listen to reason and relied on her ob and she ended up with an unnecessary cesarean and gave up on breastfeeding very early. (She was a sheep, though, so nothing would've saved her from all that, but still.)

And, for future reference (as it'd be near impossible to find a midwife to take her on at 41 weeks), homebirths ARE covered by medicaid. They cover the midwife's professional fee. Many midwives have only a small fee for personal supplies (or request the mum buy them herself). Freestanding birth centers are also 100% covered. I birthed at one using medicaid and paid nothing. My friend birthed at home with the same midwife and I believe she only had to dish out $500 (there may've been some uncovered portion, can't remember for sure). It may be that she was misinformed by medicaid or someone else or if she spoke to a midwife it may have been one whom medicaid does not cover (I know they fully cover CNMs and at least partially cover CPMs).
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