Feeding giant breed puppies?

[Girl In The Fire]

I know there is debate over what to feed giant breed puppies and I am hoping someone here has BTDT and has some input... I have a 11ish week old giant breed pup. I used to feed raw and this is my first kibble raised puppy.

Feeding raw exclusively at this time is out of the question. The only way I could afford it is to buy in bulk but I no longer have a chest freezer and currently do not have time or desire to spend a day driving to the wholesalers and spend another whole day repackaging meat.

So I am currently feeding Kirkland Puppy, Kirkland is the Costco brand and is not the best food and is not the worst food. I dont have to feed this brand, I have easy access to brands like Eagle Pak, Wellness, Innova, Canidae etc. I also add in things like raw chicken backs a couple times a week, an egg here and there, maybe some scraps from trimming meat but that does not make up a significant part of the diet.

I remember years ago reading about special formulas for large/giant breed puppies but also heard arguments saying they were even worse than regular puppy food. Has there been any recent definitive findings on this issue?

[greenmagick]

Not tons of help as I feed raw (and dont get it wholesale but its still cheaper than most kibble). I know on the great dane forum I am on, they often dont feed puppy and go straight to adult depending on the brands. The general consensus over there is if its not grain free, protein should be under 24%. That being said, someone else said on a mastiff forum they were on, everybody was feeding puppy...so I dont know.

I do wonder though we there needs to be puppy food. I mean my children were weaned straight to people food....animals in the wild too..so again, I dont know

[Momily]

OK I know nothing about feeding puppies, or about giant breed dogs in general. The only dog I've ever had was and still is a medium sized adult, and I'm still learning to feed him.

However, I wonder about the "puppies eat what adult dogs eat in the wild" argument, and whether that's true. I know they eat the same foods, but do they eat the same parts and the same proportions? It seems logical to me that maybe they eat more meat and less bone because of jaw strength or that they don't eat as much organ meat (which would mean less veggies since those are in the stomach and entrails) because those are saved for the pack leaders or something. Of course I could have that backwads -- maybe they eat mostly organ meat. Might they also combine food and nursing longer than in pet dogs?

Puppy food is made of the same ingredients as dog food right? Just in different proportions so that it has more or less of certain nutrients right?

This is not to say that I think that giant breed puppies should eat puppy food. I have absolutely no idea about that whatsoever, just that the "in the wild" arguments sometime seem way oversimplified to me.

[gingerstar]

From what I have heard, Innova has one of the very best Large Breed Puppy foods out there, so since you can get that, you may want to try it.

[Ola_]

I also would feed the adult version. Actually many giant breed breeders have it in their purchase contract that you cannot feed puppy food.

I would ideally feed an adult food, if not then large breed puppy food. Regular puppy food would be my last choice to use. The Kirkland adult would probably be the easiest one to switch to, and it's a pretty decent food from what I recall as well.

I also wanted to add that if you're adding raw items I'd go for something much more meaty than chicken backs. Adult dogs are able to regulate their calcium intake but puppies cannot, so bone-heavy items are not advised. Perhaps try something like chicken leg quarters instead - they tend to be pretty affordable even in regular stores (esp. since you're not feeding a lot of them) and have a good deal more meat.

[Frogmorest]

It's worth a mention that Kirkland dog food is actually made by Diamond pet products

[SophieAnn]

I think the reason for feeding large breed puppy food, rather than regular puppy food is to encourage slower growth for large breeds (easier on joints).

Also, I think the reason for puppy food rather than adult food is that it is more nutrient dense, for growth and more fat-rich for brain growth, development etc. Kinda like how mother's milk is high fat for brain development, ykwim?

If you are looking for specific advice on feeding, I would seek the advice of either:
1) Your vet.
2) A reputable breeder of that breed of dog, or another giant breed.

[greenmagick]

The reason many great dane owners and breeders dont feed puppy food (including large breed) is because it does speed up growth too much. I dont think that large breed is supposed to slow down, if anything I think it offers even more protein etc which can speed it up. Again, I dont know much about kibble as I have been raw feeding for over 7 years....I do know that if I did have to use kibble and had a pup, I wouldnt use puppy food.

dolforum.com is for great danes, but they have a very nice section on kibble feeding. there is also dogfoodchat.com, its not as active, but there is alot of info there still

And finally, unfortunately I would probably not trust a vets opinion on food. Most tend to recommed really low quality expensive foods like science diet, eukanuba, etc.

[gingerstar]

I agree with greenmagick that most vets are not one's best resource for good food advice.

I heard about the Innova Lg Breed Puppy food from a former Dane breeder, whose opinion I trust, who said it is actually formulated to slow growth.
For instance, it has 24% protein, 12% fat. Their Lg Breed Adult has 26% protein, 14% fat, and their regular adult food has 24% protein, 19% fat. So of Innova, it would appear that the LB Puppy would be the best choice, rather than their Adult.

We feed Fromm, on our breeder's advice, and have been happy with it.

I say, do your research, don't just take one person's word.

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by greenmagick

And finally, unfortunately I would probably not trust a vets opinion on food. Most tend to recommed really low quality expensive foods like science diet, eukanuba, etc.

Yeah seriously! When we got our first dog we asked the vet what we should feed - she said to go with a big name company like Purina or Iams. We said that we were thinking of Science Diet - to which she replied, that's one of the best!

It wasn't till I started researching and reading online that I figured just what junk was in there. We changed to some better foods and now we feed raw. Most vets tell me I should stop raw ASAP and get some Science Diet. Sigh!

[Melaniee]

On the whole puppy vs. adult food thing, we just got a pup and are feeding natural balance which doesn't seem to sell a puppy line, recommends just to feed the same as adult. This is how the breeder fed her as well. It's grain-free and she gets raw meat mixed in. I don't know if she counts as a giant breed, though, she's a standard poodle. I'm guessing for giant you mean the ones tipping near 100 lb?

[Sailor]

Yes, I agree with the concept of NOT feeding puppy food. Large breed dogs have an issue with hip displaysia (I'm probably spelling that wrong). There is WAY too much protein/fat in most puppy foods, and some studies have linked this to displaysia. I don't have a link for this, as it's what my breeder told me (I have a GSD). But, I assume, he got this information from a reliable source considering he's a breeder.

I would check the price of raw versus kibble. It does depend on the area, but you might be surprised. I feed raw and we don't buy wholesale. We live in SoCal - expensive in terms of food. And it's still cheaper for me than if I were to buy my preferred kibble. If you establish a relationship with a butcher, you might get all kinds of "goodies" for free. I get most of my organ meats for free, as well as some chicken necks.

But, if it turns out it's still more expensive for you - just stay away from the puppy food. Slow growth is the way to go when it comes to large dogs. You don't want to speed through the process.

[SevenVeils]

I really like Canidae for giant breed puppies. Also Solid Gold but I don't remember right now which one I liked- not their grain free one, that is way too high in protein.

If you want to, PM me for a link to someone's blog which has many very informative articles, some specifically about foods, some of those specifically about feeding a giant breed puppy.

[SevenVeils]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Slow growth is the way to go when it comes to large dogs. You don't want to speed through the process.

I agree with this completely. Ulysses is 2 years old now, and is still growing noticeably. Keeping the growth slower does not make the dog turn out smaller, just healthier.

[greenmagick]

Originally Posted by SevenVeils

I really like Canidae for giant breed puppies. Also Solid Gold but I don't remember right now which one I liked- not their grain free one, that is way too high in protein.

.

Just wanted to mention that high protein is ok in grain free forumlas. They eat a lot less volume of it so the protein ends up being much lower....plus the protein source is meat, which is good. The great dane forum I am on has posts explaining this much better but pretty much everyone over there is fanatical about low protein but are fine with high protein in grain free foods.

[angie7]

Brand isn't as important with giant breeds as protein and fat ratios are. Look for a brand that is 20-22% protein and 12% fat. Nothing higher as this can cause major bone/joint damage. I have Great Danes, have raised plenty of pups (although never on kibble, I'm a raw feeder) Innova is a great brand but their protein is too high for GB pups. Hunt for something that has these ratios and you should be fine. Once your GB pup reaches 2 years, you can switch them to a higher protein diet.

The food you are feeding now is 28%, WAY too high for a GB pup.

[gingerstar]

Originally Posted by greenmagick

Just wanted to mention that high protein is ok in grain free forumlas. They eat a lot less volume of it so the protein ends up being much lower....plus the protein source is meat, which is good. The great dane forum I am on has posts explaining this much better but pretty much everyone over there is fanatical about low protein but are fine with high protein in grain free foods.

Thanks for clarifying this. My dog loves Wellness CORE - we use the kibble bits as treats - but I didn't want to feed this since it is like 34% protein. Glad to hear it isn't a problem.

[tankgirl136]

Originally Posted by angie7

Brand isn't as important with giant breeds as protein and fat ratios are. Look for a brand that is 20-22% protein and 12% fat.

I agree with this!!! You need to watch the pups protein as it can cause growth that is too fast for their bodies to grow correctly. It has been a VERY long time since I have fed a puppy but my last GD went straight to Diamond's adult formula with occassional egg and cottage cheese supplements. She went on to be a very healthy and happy GD who had no major health issues until about 6 months before we lost her at 12 1/2 years old. I will raise my next GD very similarly (though brands have changed since then).

[DogMomforNow]

Watch your Ca:P ratios in any food you decide to feed. That's one of the major issues with development in large and giant breed dogs. If you google it articles will come up that detail how to calculate the ratio and what the right one is. I feed Innova LB Puppy.