emunctories: don't put your trash in my backyard

[Theloose]

my backyard's full.


From the Energetic healing experiment:

Originally Posted by whoMe

Okay, what are the different emunctories, and what does opening them entail?

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

an emunctory is simply any part of the body that allows excretions to leave the body. When they are blocked you have reactions because the body has reached a state where it is no longer capable of removing the metabolic endogenous waste and any accumulated exogenous toxins. It could also be that detoxification is happening too quickly. There are actually many ways to eliminate and different types will do this differently. Some vomit, have diarrhea, excessive sweating, ulcers etc.

When the natural excretory system is blocked or somehow can't perform the normal metabolic catabolism a condition will develop. The four primary emunctories (skin, GI tract, lungs and kidney/bladder) are the places these issues *generally* show up.

By strict definition the liver stomach and pancreas are not tissues that permit the waste to be removed to the exterior of the body their proper functioning is essential to the functioning of other emunctory tissues (obviously!)

There are primary and secondary emunctories. Cell waste has to be eliminated however nutrition is dependent on the metabolism and absorption of food in the small intestine. During cell waste elimination the bloodstream is filled with the waste. The by products of metabolism are flushed through the liver and then filters and detoxifies. Once the waste has been metabolized it is brought to the emunctories.

The kidney/bladder deals with nitrogen compounds, toxins, water and electrolytes. The skin deals with the same. Lungs deal with CO2 and water, and the GI is in charge of digestive waste, bile pigments, and metal salts.

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

rats, I just saw the rest of your message. They are dealt with in stages. You can see based on symptoms which types of toxins are causing trouble. Then you target and different modalities have different ways of doing this. I must go to bed but we can explore more tomorrow. By then, whoMe, you'll be teaching me about it!

[kjbrown92]

I always wonder about anti-perspirants and how they block excretions. Even the mineral ones that stop sweat seem like they block it. And what does that do to our system? I think that may be more the cause in the breast cancer controversy than the aluminum itself.

[Wugmama]

I literally have no time to read anything or be of any help to anyone, but chiming in w/questions. Reading the above made me think of how my first child had horrible, horrible contipation as a breastfed baby. I think it started either right before or right as we started baby food, at about 5 months (wanted to wait longer, was getting pressure). We even had to do an enema, it was that bad. At that point she was only on my milk and prunes and prune juice! And that poor kid has asthma [lungs]And in the past 6 months has had 2 bowel impactions [GI Tract]! The good news is she started swallowing pills just 2 weeks ago so I have the opportunity to get some supps into her if I could pull it together and find the time to do it and figure out which. Right now she is taking CLO capsules and a multi from Super Nutrition - that one is allergy free. She isn't off of any foods though.

Then my poor baby had the horrible, horrible eczema [skin], which was much more blantant and demanded immediate attention (and only took me 50 weeks to clear up).

I used to have horrible constipation too. And got eczema only when pg, and then following the birth of my last baby. But I must say, following the diet I have been, I personally feel great, including my mood. I feel so bad for those of you who are still plagued w/symptoms, you and your little ones.

If only I could help my oldest one.

:

~Tracy

[Wugmama]

Kathy, I agree about the antiperspirant. I remember getting a blocked duct under my arm - had a big hard painful lump and freaked out and went to the doc. She told me if was from the antiperspirant and told me it was not uncommon to see that happen. I didn't need any for 15 months after my last baby (and had clear skin, too). Then AF came back and I need it again.

[mamafish9]

:

Getting poop out is an issue here (not hard at all any more, but I think we're dealing with fear and witholding, and that's not helping his detox process).

[MoonWillow]

I am feeling like this belongs in the main H&H forum. I am going to go ahead and move it over.

[Theloose]

Okay, so open detox pathways are well and good, but we still need to get the flagged toxins OUT, right? That's what we're talking about?

GI - we're looking at probiotics and good motility?

kidney/bladder - optimizing GFR (glomerular filtration rate)? Salt is the only variable that seems like it's reasonable to mess with and see results, that I've seen. More salt=faster filtration. Faster filtration=less reabsorption=fewer toxins (and nutrients) in the blood.

lungs - is this where deep breathing is helpful? And exercise to go along with it, maybe?

skin - this is sweating, skin brushing, etc?

and others...
milk - stuff goes here when it's available and the others are blocked?
eczema - alternate route out of the skin?
acne - similar to eczema?


hmm, can you tell based on symptoms or lack thereof where the blockages are? As in, if it's the phase II flags that are missing or if it's the emunctories that aren't happy? And wat sort of textbook would have all this in full gory detail?

[ASusan]

Needham, Barr, and Calafat (2005). Characterizing children’s exposures:
beyond NHANES. Neurotoxicology, 26, pp. 547-553.

This article, if you can get it full text, has a good figure, Absorption, Distribution, and Elimiation of Environmental Chemicals in the Body. It shows the routes of exposure (e.g., ingestion, dermal), processing (e.g., gastrointestinal, blood) and elimination (e.g., feces, expired air).

If you can't get access to the full-text, PM me and I can email it to you.

[Theloose]

So this whole thread came about because of chlobo's theory that I apparently forgot to post in the OP:

Originally Posted by chlobo

Anyhow, I'm advancing a theory to see what you think. Could DS be reacting to one of my reactions that doesn't get detoxed properly? And then when I got sick, b/c it was a digestive illness I basically "flushed" everything, toxins and all, out of my system and so Adam got some relief? And that was the 4 days of bliss?

Then, when the detox stuff backed up again we lost that loving feeling? What do you think?

I'll add that it's always struck me how dd is happy as a clam when she's having poop reaction, and they actually seem to make her extra sweet and cute rather than upset or otherwise miserable. This morning we're having a corn trial fail, and she's predictably happy as a clam and playing by herself and being really sweet and talkative. She tends to be constipated otherwise. I think I know what our next project is...

[Lady Lilya]

Subbing because this is a fascinating concept.

My sister sweats like crazy when she drinks coffee. She dismisses it as being not of concern, because she understands it is a common thing to happen to people who consume caffeine. She thinks it is normal. I don't. I've never sweated due to caffeine. Rather than normal, I think it should be categorized as a common problem.

Re anti-perspirant: I use a deoderant that is not an anti-perspirant. I still sweat, but don't smell. I've been using Oyin Funk Butter, and have been very happy with it.

So, hmmmmm....skin, GI tract, lungs, kidney/bladder.....
I've never had any respiratory or urinary issue that I am aware of. I never have constipation (what I call "constipation" in myself is just when I notice a slight slowing). But I do have acne. I wonder what clues that can give me.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Okay, so open detox pathways are well and good, but we still need to get the flagged toxins OUT, right? That's what we're talking about?

GI - we're looking at probiotics and good motility?

I believe that stomach acid comes first, related to nutrient absorption.

kidney/bladder - optimizing GFR (glomerular filtration rate)? Salt is the only variable that seems like it's reasonable to mess with and see results, that I've seen. More salt=faster filtration. Faster filtration=less reabsorption=fewer toxins (and nutrients) in the blood.

Calcium and potassium are critical here too. And magnesium (as it balances the calcium ions) (metabolic acidosis)

lungs - is this where deep breathing is helpful? And exercise to go along with it, maybe?

Actually, there is info about shallow breathing. Let me see if I can find it. http://www.altmedicine.org/buteyko-b...ng-therapy.htm And the alkaline foods (ph issues) are relevant here. (respiratory acidosis)

skin - this is sweating, skin brushing, etc?

I'm thinking nutrients again: biotin, essential fatty acids, nutrients which affect cellular level functioning. Water probably fits here for hydration.

and others...
milk - stuff goes here when it's available and the others are blocked?
eczema - alternate route out of the skin?
acne - similar to eczema?

I believe breastmilk is just a natural detox pathway for excess toxins. Eczema has the inflammatory aspects, so again the EFA, probiotics, alkaline-forming foods.

hmm, can you tell based on symptoms or lack thereof where the blockages are? As in, if it's the phase II flags that are missing or if it's the emunctories that aren't happy? And what sort of textbook would have all this in full gory detail?

Maybe something about the biochemistry of excretory processes, specifically.


Pat

[FireWithin]

so we want to get things moving, but not too fast, right?

To much mag - you get the big D and then do your electrolytes get out of balance? Not enough toxins get picked up? (not sure, just throwing out ideas.)

Can you make your kidneys work too fast? Is that possible? Is it harmful?
I seem to remember that your body can't recognize plain water as well as structured water, fresh juices, teas, etc. Is this only in regards to absorption or is it important for elimination also? I'm leaning towards it being important for elimination also.

I tend not to sweat much. I wonder why. I know I tend towards dehydration, but I think there is more to it than this.

I am overweight and I believe a main reason is that my endogenous exogenous (sorry, if i wrote the words wrong, cant scroll back to check) systems aren't working well. This is a vital piece to my puzzle.

Also, I think that exercise is an important component to emunctories. A few years ago I was exercising well. I didn't lose much weight or inches, but my face and arms lost a lot of puffiness. I think, through exercise, my body was able to excrete the toxins I've been storing.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by WuWei

I believe that stomach acid comes first, related to nutrient absorption.

Calcium and potassium are critical here too. And magnesium (as it balances the calcium ions) (metabolic acidosis)

Actually, there is info about shallow breathing. Let me see if I can find it. http://www.altmedicine.org/buteyko-b...ng-therapy.htm And the alkaline foods (ph issues) are relevant here. (respiratory acidosis)

I'm thinking nutrients again: biotin, essential fatty acids, nutrients which affect cellular level functioning. Water probably fits here for hydration.

I believe breastmilk is just a natural detox pathway for excess toxins. Eczema has the inflammatory aspects, so again the EFA, probiotics, alkaline-forming foods.


Maybe something about the biochemistry of excretory processes, specifically.


Pat

GI - Stomach acid to get a grip on bacterial overgrowths and prep nutrients for proper digestion/absorption. Transit time not too fast (malabsorption of nutrients) or too slow (reabsorption of toxins).

kidneys - salt was the variable mentioned in class. Maybe general electrolyte balance would be more accurate? Blood osmolarity? I'll have to do more reading... If your kidneys filter too fast, you lose nutrients. Too slow, and you reabsorb toxins, plus put yourself at risk for kidney stones and other kidney issues.

I'm still covering my ears/eyes about acid/alkaline foods lalalalala.

I so wish I could get a textbook on this!

Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo

so we want to get things moving, but not too fast, right?

To much mag - you get the big D and then do your electrolytes get out of balance? Not enough toxins get picked up? (not sure, just throwing out ideas.)

Can you make your kidneys work too fast? Is that possible? Is it harmful?
I seem to remember that your body can't recognize plain water as well as structured water, fresh juices, teas, etc. Is this only in regards to absorption or is it important for elimination also? I'm leaning towards it being important for elimination also.

I tend not to sweat much. I wonder why. I know I tend towards dehydration, but I think there is more to it than this.

I am overweight and I believe a main reason is that my endogenous exogenous (sorry, if i wrote the words wrong, cant scroll back to check) systems aren't working well. This is a vital piece to my puzzle.

Also, I think that exercise is an important component to emunctories. A few years ago I was exercising well. I didn't lose much weight or inches, but my face and arms lost a lot of puffiness. I think, through exercise, my body was able to excrete the toxins I've been storing.

I think toxins get into the gut via bile, and stay there via fiber and/or clay, plus good (fast) transit time. I don't know how overdoing mag would affect electrolytes, good question!

When I was reading about niacin flushes, people were raving about them as a great way to detox - they dilate the capillaries, allowing room for cells to dump toxins - and that the main other way to do that was exercise. Maybe that decade of water polo *did* do something good for me, rather than just pump me full of halides )

[WuWei]

Bumping.


Pat

[lil_miss_understood]

thanks for bumping.
missed this the 1st time round

[ASusan]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science.../sdarticle.pdf

top of p. 549

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by ASusan

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science.../sdarticle.pdf

top of p. 549

The link won't display the abstract. Could you post the title and author of the abstract, please?


Thanks, Pat

[Theloose]

Bumping again with a link:
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Excretion_of_toxicants

My burning question right now is what are ways to prevent released in the gut due to bile, enzyme die off, gut bug die off, etc, from being reabsorbed? I'm thinking along the lines of clay, fiber, vit c flush, extra mag, etc. I'd love to figure out a protocol of sorts, to protect milk when you know an onslaught is coming

[mkat83]

Sub. This is definitely something I need to learn more about.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Bumping again with a link:
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Excretion_of_toxicants

My burning question right now is what are ways to prevent released in the gut due to bile, enzyme die off, gut bug die off, etc, from being reabsorbed? I'm thinking along the lines of clay, fiber, vit c flush, extra mag, etc. I'd love to figure out a protocol of sorts, to protect milk when you know an onslaught is coming

you have this covered. What I tend to do is clay, phase one and phase two support (you already know you don't want a slacking off in phase two) to get things OUT. I was working with one mama recently who was taking 9 grams of glutathione. 9 GRAMS. It was insane, but that's the number we hit when all symptoms abated. At this time I tend to use cell salts too to clean the blood and get digestion going. This kept the babe from reacting to ingestion of allergens. So it was detox support, clay, castor oil packs (can't be underestimated!) drainage support from UNDA and cell salts.

I love vitamin C flushes too, but I turn more to glutathione for breastmilk, only because I see it work.