mamas who don't shave~ what will you tell your dd and will you/do you allow shaving? - Page 9

[Cherry Alive]

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[mags]

I haven't read the other responses. However, my mom never shaved (neither has my mil). Both are from Asian cultures and what is weird is that they have NO hair on their legs and very little on their arms, so never felt the need to shave (and neither one wears tank tops, so they don't feel the need to shave their armpits). I, on the otherhand look like a caveman, I think I got it from my dad's side. It was traumatic for me in jr high, having no clue that shaving was, "the norm" (also had the same exp when it came to bras, b/c my mother did NOT want to get me a bra and I found out that I needed a bra from girls at school that commented about it, and yes I DID need a bra, my mom just had no clue about American culture at all), and being told by ppl, "Wow, you really need to shave your legs." I have to say that I felt pressured to shave as a teen, but now as an adult, I DO shave, b/c I like the way I look better when I shave vs. when I don't shave. I don't shave in the winter, b/c nobody sees my hair, but in the summer, I shave my legs, arms (yes, I wasn't kidding you when I told you I am hairy, I am even more hairy than my DH!) and armpits, as well as finger and toes.

If I had a dd, I would let her know about shaving. HOWEVER, I would not MAKE her shave if she didn't want to. If she wanted to, I would help her get the supplies she needed. I would leave the decision up to her. Just from my own exp, I wouldn't NOT tell her about it or make it sounds like something bad, b/c it was just really embarrassing for me to have to find out about this kind of thing from peers rather than finding out about it from my own mom, who I feel should have been the one to tell me about it to begin with (same with the bra thing).

[cappuccinosmom]

I don't shave. If we ever get a daughter, I suppose it'll be up to her. But given that not-shaving is the norm in our house, that we homeschool, Cover our legs and don't wear sleeveless things for modesty reasons, and that media is limited, I don't imagine it becoming an issue until mid- to late teens.

[thismama]

Men shave their faces, yes, and women who have hair on our faces are VERY MUCH expected to shave them, to the point that you get crazy stares if you don't, people are absolutely shocked if women have facial hair. Women are expected to shave body hair much more than men are, I really don't see how you can argue otherwise, it's basic common knowledge.

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by thismama

She is a woman, I am a woman, we all grew up with this expectation that we should shave. We decided how we feel about it, and we don't do it.

Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions about it. The statement that was unsupportive was "And I also in my heart don't believe that any woman truely shaves only for her own self, that is my true belief, whether they think they do or not."
now she sn't deciding how she feels about it, she is deciding how OTHER people feel about it. thats not supportive. IT doesn't help women progress to have other women say "yeah, well I think you are full of it and you're shaving because you are expected to"

because no, I am not shaving because I am expected to. I am shaving because if I don't I would have to shower 6 times a day. No deodorant has helped, Ive even tried men's deoderant (since they think men smell worse? lol) . But if if I shave then I can go the whole day WITHOUT deoderant and still not smell. Then I only have to shower once a day.

I have no problem with women who don't shave. I came in here totally supporting that. I liked this thread, I thought it was great I don't think she shouldn't make comments about it. I just don't think its respectful to women to say she "believes in her heart" that these women aren't shaving for themselves. if she really cares about how people view women, she should view women in a good light as well. not try to imply she knows why they shave better than they do. that was the only thing I found unsupportive, and i think you can be suportive of women not shaving without belittling the women who do, many of us for hygeine reasons, but even if for other reason then who cares, its their choice.

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by KristaDJ

I cut my nails because if I don't I scratch my baby, that has nothing to do with beautification.
I don't paint anything on my body and find that whole practice odd.
I get the wax out of my ear because it itches when it's there.
I have dread locks, I don't trim, style, color or do anything else to my hair.
I wear clothing because I don't want to be nude for many reasons that have nothing to do with beauty.
I wear deodorant because I don't like the smell of sweat.
I DON"T shave because I feel like it is something women are forced into in my society and I refuse to conform to that. It's either shave or be an outcast who gets dirty looks and rude comments. It really not the same as not painting your fingernails. I am not against shaving at all, I am just against it for me. I also wish that women in this country were free to choose not to shave without being looked down on for it and I think that if more of us just stopped shaving we would get there a lot faster.
ETA: I also feel that women are forced into wearing make-up so I refuse that as well. This is all from a girl who used to take two hours getting ready to go to the grocery store. I would NOT leave the house without my hair and make-up done and an outfit that I spent an hour choosing and my legs SHAVEN. I did this because I felt that I was disgusting if I didn't. That is what I would like to see die in this country. If women want to do that for absolutely no reason other than they enjoy it that is fine by me, it's the women who feel they have no choice or do is without any thinking at all that make me sad.

that is sad. I leave the house looking like something the cat dragged in all the time. if I'm clean thats all that matters. and honestly, with all these kids, sometimes I dont have enough consecutive free minutes to take a shower. If I don't smell bad and don't have the time, I'll skip it.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by mommysarah5

that is sad. I leave the house looking like something the cat dragged in all the time. if I'm clean thats all that matters. and honestly, with all these kids, sometimes I dont have enough consecutive free minutes to take a shower. If I don't smell bad and don't have the time, I'll skip it.

this is me too. but i only have one kid... i'm screwed when i have more

[tbone_kneegrabber]

Originally Posted by slylives

What does that actually mean?

color hair to "subvert the dominant paradigm" means that you go out of your way to *not* play into beauty standards. You choose something that makes people think that you don't care about looking "pretty" because you don't. Your actions, in this case I was discussing "crazy" colored hair, points out that the expectation of engaging in "styling" to look more attractive in a conventional way is not appealing to you and you want the world to know that you will not buy into their set of beauty standards. (and yes i did have that much analysis of it at 13 when I shaved half my head and bleached a giant streak down the middle) it was my way of saying "I will never be able to look like the American image of a traditionally attractive girl, so ya know what, I'm going to run screaming from the image instead of trying to fit into that mold!"

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by mommysarah5

it's not as fun to be honest - that one I do more out of neccessity. Our cat just can't seem to stay in the house and I don't make her, but I don't want the fleas living with us. Everyone always says when you see a flea you will have a flea problem within days or weeks - but my cat gets a couple fleas a week and I get them off her and we've never had a flea problem aside from the few I get off her. But yea, not really fun, just gross, and sometimes they try to hop away :

Have you ever tried Frontline ? Works wonders for fleas and ticks. If just fleas are a problem, I recommend Advantage.

[AngeliqueW]

Woah, body hair sure has caused quite a stir!
Well, to answer the OP... this is what I'd do:
Teach your child to be a critical consumer of ideas. Apply critical thinking to the messages in songs, commercials, books, etc. Ask questions about what our culture promotes as beauty and why. How have these ideas evolved? Look at what is considered beautiful in other cultures or in other times (women with beards tattooed on, plates pierced through their lips, feet bound, necks stretched).
Teach your child to love herself, including her body. Research why hair grows where it does at different times in our life. Celebrate her budding body hair: "Is that peach fuzz getting thicker on your legs? You're becoming a woman! Let's talk about the other changes going on in your body..."
Don't be a hypocrite. If you're preaching about leg hair while you're dying your grey hair, your child will pick up on it.
And after all that, don't be surprised if she wants to shave at puberty. If so, let her. Don't make her feel guilty for being insecure (if she's motivated by peer pressure), it wont help her or you. It is age appropriate for teens to try on different roles and personas then discard them. Allowing her to try out "girlie" girl may just show her how uncomfortable, expensive, time consuming, and unnatural the process is.
While our culture provides conflicting and often harmful messages to women about more than just beauty, you are here asking this question which means you're proactively seeking to teach her something better. From one hairy mama to another: Lighten up. The good thing (or bad depending on how you feel) about body hair is that it will grow back.

Recipe for great deodorant that still allows you to sweat:
Sprinkle about 1/8 tsp of baking soda into your hand. Add a few drops of water to liquify. Rub under arms. Simple, Cheap, and works on hairy underarms too!:

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by thismama

Men shave their faces, yes, and women who have hair on our faces are VERY MUCH expected to shave them, to the point that you get crazy stares if you don't, people are absolutely shocked if women have facial hair. Women are expected to shave body hair much more than men are, I really don't see how you can argue otherwise, it's basic common knowledge.

I have a second cousin (My mom's cousin) who has an excess of facial hair and long, long, long head hair. Her hair has starting turning white and is normally black. Her facial hair is extremely noticeable, not just a few hairs. It dives my mother absolutely nuts and my mom drives me nuts because I don't know why she gives a damn. She says she is embarrassed for her cousin, and thinks her cousin ought to bleach, pluck, wax, whatever it takes to get that hair off her face, especially (in my mother's words) because she owns and runs her own business (tax preparation) and is likely losing business because of it. My mom will never lose that personal investment in physical appearance. I have to correct and circumvent her comments already in regard to my daughters... 'oh, sophia has such skinny arms, I wish my arms looked like that'... I say, oh you want to look like you're two years old? Why do you care so much what your arms look like? Seriously, my mom drives me freaking batty with her constant remarks about appearance. It makes her come off as insecure and critical and snobby all at the same time.

ETA: I just remembered something... when I was 11 years old and she told me my legs were hairy and I needed to start shaving... she told me, do not shave above the knee because no guy needs to be touching above your knee so there will be no need to shave there. ..... *eyeroll smilie*

[limabean]

Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~

ETA: I just remembered something... when I was 11 years old and she told me my legs were hairy and I needed to start shaving... she told me, do not shave above the knee because no guy needs to be touching above your knee so there will be no need to shave there. ..... *eyeroll smilie*

Ha!

In the links I posted many pages back, the article talked about how there are both puritanical and hedonistic (that wasn't the word he used, but I can't remember it now) arguments for both shaving and for not shaving. Looks like your mom pulled out a puritanical argument for not shaving. Very interesting!

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by AngeliqueW

Recipe for great deodorant that still allows you to sweat:
Sprinkle about 1/8 tsp of baking soda into your hand. Add a few drops of water to liquify. Rub under arms. Simple, Cheap, and works on hairy underarms too!:

I've tried this, and also baby powder, but without luck. I've even tried eating differently, and taking pills designed to help with sweating. That didn't help either. I am blessed that there is something simple and effective I can do though - shave. and then I don't stink. and thats why I do it. And I see nothing wrong with people who don't shave, and I know they don't have the same smell issues I have, I'm just a smelly person lol... but im not if I shave.

[jimblejamble]

Ocassionally I'll shave my legs (just whenever the fancy strikes, it could be every week or not for a year) and I usually shave my armpits when the hair gets to be pretty long just because it starts to get itchy. I don't shave anything else. If my daughters want to shave, that's their choice. Whatever floats their boat!

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by AngeliqueW

Don't be a hypocrite.

this is useful too, especially if you don't shave because you think it's something society expects that is disrespectful towards women - then you should also model being respectful towards women. let your child know that some women shave for other reasons aside from what men will think of them. dont raise them to be judgmental and unsupportive of women who shave and assume they only care about "the man". I cant imagine if my mom was a non-shaver who shared that with me. You want them to be able to think for themselves, realize that may include thinking separately from both you an society. Which is what I do. I don't shave or not shave because of what my mother said or because of what society says. I shave because I don't like to smell bad and I would not think highly of my mother if she acted like it was impossible for me to shave for any other reason then what other people think.

Because, even when it comes to smelling bad, I don't care if I smell bad to others either. I only care if I smell bad to myself. For all I know I stink all the time and just can't smell it.

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by Hesperia

My DH just today said he wished he had more hair on his legs, so he could feel more comfortable wearing shorts. That is sad. I think is okay to push societies comfort levels on manliness/womanliness. The other day I saw a business woman, all dressed up, nails done, hair coloured, well tailored suit jacket with cleavage, and lovely hair legs!

To me it boils down to being comfortable with who you are, however you choose to dress it.
My hairy pits do make a statement, and I want them to. I want people to see them and think, right, women also have hair. I want under arm hair to be more 'normal', or leg hair, or any hair. We are humans, we grow hair. Some a lot, and some a little. At the end of the day, we need to be happy with how we present ourselves to the world.

I feel MOST womanly with an arm pit full of beautiful hair, long leg hair and a beautifully somewhat bushy bush!

As for hygiene, oh man, I smell when I shave. Really badly.

Thanks for listening, just had a little chat there

Amen, sister!

I guess I wouldn't be so militant about it if people were more accepting of it and didn't use words like "gross" to describe body hair.

[Snuzzmom]

Originally Posted by mommysarah5

I just saw this post from the OP:

I long for a world where women truely feel beautiful exactly as they are, where other people don't put emphasis on these kinds of things, where women and girls were not held to a man's standard of beauty which I think is RIDICULOUS!
And I also in my heart don't believe that any woman truely shaves only for her own self, that is my true belief, whether they think they do or not. (Flame if you like, but this is supposed to be a support only thread

See, I find that statement so over-the-top sanctimonious that it goes past insulting into laughable. You think you know a group of women on the internet even better than they know themselves? Even if it is her "true belief," the OP seems intelligent enough to realize how that can come across as insulting.

I shave sometimes, when I have time and I feel like it. My husband certainly spends far more time shaving his bits than I do mine.

I will actually probably try to discourage DD from shaving as long as possible, because it's a PITA, but if she really wants to I will certainly help her! Ditto DS and shaving. And I'm sure we'll have a big pros and cons conversation about it, just as I plan to talk to both of my children about the reasons why DH and I do the things we do, and why they might feel differently, etc.

As far as the women shaving to please men, I just don't buy it. I have more of an issue with dresses, to be honest. They are harder to play in, but they can also be nice and cool in summer. That actually does bug me, and I can't figure out why in this day and age we still perpetuate that dresses and skirts are for GIRLS ONLY, at least in American society.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

where women and girls were not held to a man's standard of beauty which I think is RIDICULOUS!

Women and girls have a higher standard for their beauty then men do.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Women and girls have a higher standard for their beauty then men do.

hmm...different standards, I'd agree with, but I'm not sure they're "higher".

DH thinks I'm beautiful just the way I am. The vast majority of the people who have ever commented negatively on my appearance are other women. So...whatever. I don't really care what anybody but dh thinks, and if he were concerned about hairstyles, makeup, clothes, shaving status, etc. I doubt we'd be together at all.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

hmm...different standards, I'd agree with, but I'm not sure they're "higher".

DH thinks I'm beautiful just the way I am. The vast majority of the people who have ever commented negatively on my appearance are other women. So...whatever. I don't really care what anybody but dh thinks, and if he were concerned about hairstyles, makeup, clothes, shaving status, etc. I doubt we'd be together at all.

I'm trying to remember where I read or heard it. But there was a study showing that what women considered pretty in each other and what men considered pretty in women, the same general ideas where applied, but women were more extreme.