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mamas who don't shave~ what will you tell your dd and will you/do you allow shaving? - Page 10

post #181 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Women and girls have a higher standard for their beauty then men do.



That was seriously funny.

I can guarantee you that I do not have high standards for my 'beauty'.

But my brother... spent an awfully long time in front of the mirror as a teen, and still does to this day and he's 38 years old now.
post #182 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Women and girls have a higher standard for their beauty then men do.
i find this to be true for the majority
post #183 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
Amen, sister!

I guess I wouldn't be so militant about it if people were more accepting of it and didn't use words like "gross" to describe body hair.
I smell gross when I have body hair, but the body hair itself I do not find gross
post #184 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post


That was seriously funny.

I can guarantee you that I do not have high standards for my 'beauty'.

But my brother... spent an awfully long time in front of the mirror as a teen, and still does to this day and he's 38 years old now.
Not each individual genders beauty. What women find beautiful in women is more extreme then what men find beautiful in women. The alternate is also true. What men find beautiful in men is more extreme then what women find beautiful in men.
post #185 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Not each individual genders beauty. What women find beautiful in women is more extreme then what men find beautiful in women. The alternate is also true. What men find beautiful in men is more extreme then what women find beautiful in men.
Well, I think it is very different for individuals.
post #186 of 416
Not sure if this is OT or not, but I heard somewhere once that men fall in love with women they're attracted to, and women become more attracted to the men they love.

I don't think that's always true, but I can see how that idea plays into the difference of beauty standards for men and women.
post #187 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuzzmom View Post
Not sure if this is OT or not, but I heard somewhere once that men fall in love with women they're attracted to, and women become more attracted to the men they love.

I don't think that's always true, but I can see how that idea plays into the difference of beauty standards for men and women.
I don't like the gender generalizations much, and find there are always exceptions to those rules.
post #188 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
I don't like the gender generalizations much, and find there are always exceptions to those rules.
Well, of course.
post #189 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I don't think it's fair to expect the OP to make no comments about shaving as they are 'unsupportive to women.' She is a woman, I am a woman, we all grew up with this expectation that we should shave. We decided how we feel about it, and we don't do it. YMMV. But we all have a relationship to this idea that we must shave as women, and so we all are entitled to our opinions about it.

As for grooming, I do hygiene stuff and I have what I think is a cool/funky hairdo, that is very low maintenance coz I am lazy. I like to look nice, but for me that doesn't include shaving hair that grows naturally on my body, that men are not expected to shave and women in some other cultures do not shave. That I don't like, so I don't do it.
Thank you so much for saying this because I didn't know how to.
I feel like I either have to lie, pretend or say nothing....in my own thread!
post #190 of 416
by all means have your opinion on it. but don't have my opinion on it for me. I shave because if I don't I smell bad 30 minutes later even if I use deoderant. You can think all you want that I am shaving for someone elses benefit, but how does that support non shaving women? all it does it tear down shaving women. you can be supportive of one group without tearing apart another.
and again, if you want to support women in general, then you may want to start thinking of them as honest people who do things for themselves even if they do it differently then you
post #191 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeliqueW View Post
Woah, body hair sure has caused quite a stir!
Well, to answer the OP... this is what I'd do:
Teach your child to be a critical consumer of ideas. Apply critical thinking to the messages in songs, commercials, books, etc. Ask questions about what our culture promotes as beauty and why. How have these ideas evolved? Look at what is considered beautiful in other cultures or in other times (women with beards tattooed on, plates pierced through their lips, feet bound, necks stretched).
Teach your child to love herself, including her body. Research why hair grows where it does at different times in our life. Celebrate her budding body hair: "Is that peach fuzz getting thicker on your legs? You're becoming a woman! Let's talk about the other changes going on in your body..."
Don't be a hypocrite. If you're preaching about leg hair while you're dying your grey hair, your child will pick up on it.
And after all that, don't be surprised if she wants to shave at puberty. If so, let her. Don't make her feel guilty for being insecure (if she's motivated by peer pressure), it wont help her or you. It is age appropriate for teens to try on different roles and personas then discard them. Allowing her to try out "girlie" girl may just show her how uncomfortable, expensive, time consuming, and unnatural the process is.
While our culture provides conflicting and often harmful messages to women about more than just beauty, you are here asking this question which means you're proactively seeking to teach her something better. From one hairy mama to another: Lighten up. The good thing (or bad depending on how you feel) about body hair is that it will grow back.

Recipe for great deodorant that still allows you to sweat:
Sprinkle about 1/8 tsp of baking soda into your hand. Add a few drops of water to liquify. Rub under arms. Simple, Cheap, and works on hairy underarms too!:
Awesome post, this is so what I needed to hear! And thanks for the deodorant recipe, I use the crystal very sporadically, but I LOVE baking soda SO much!!!!!1
post #192 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
by all means have your opinion on it. but don't have my opinion on it for me. I shave because if I don't I smell bad 30 minutes later even if I use deoderant. You can think all you want that I am shaving for someone elses benefit, but how does that support non shaving women? all it does it tear down shaving women. you can be supportive of one group without tearing apart another.
and again, if you want to support women in general, then you may want to start thinking of them as honest people who do things for themselves even if they do it differently then you
I have to say that I was generalizing and I see now that that was stupid, of course there are exceptions, very vocal exceptions, who do it only for their ownself and know without a shadow of a doubt that nothing has affected their choice beyond their own preferrence. I apologize for generalizing and recant my statement. My new statement is: I feel in modern popular culture, esp. from my experience, most women I know and a lot of what I see in the media is the stress to conform to a perfect beauty ideal that includes shaving.

I also very much disagree with the idea of believing in the inherent good of all women. I believe people all posess the ability to be good and righteous but that most actively choose not to place their efforts in those arenas and some want to and think they are trying to but are not succeeding.
post #193 of 416
That was very big of you. Thanks


I ado agree with what you say about the stress of the media on beauty. And I also agree with this:

"I believe people all posess the ability to be good and righteous but that most actively choose not to place their efforts in those arenas and some want to and think they are trying to but are not succeeding."

I may have used the word inherent wrong, but what I mean s I trust the good exists in all women (and men) and so I tend to lean towards trusting their goodness unless they show me otherwise.
post #194 of 416
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post #195 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
I smell gross when I have body hair, but the body hair itself I do not find gross
Well why is the "smell" gross? I find most natural body odors not to be gross. In fact that smell, is full of pheromones meant to attract people to you. That smell is your true smell, not "spring flowers" or "baby powder" scented things.

I keep seeing this in the thread about smelling "bad." And I would like to break that down as well.

Most of the people I am around do not shower everyday, nor do they use deodorant. We manage to do just fine. We even have jobs and go out and interact in the world, so don't think we are locked away in a big stinky pile!
post #196 of 416
Remember that body hair, body smells, hygenie, and attractive characteristics are all cultural. Some cultures do not shave, or shower daily, or wear deordrant. It is American culture that pins certain exceptations on people and that is what folks are railing against.
post #197 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
Awesome post, this is so what I needed to hear! And thanks for the deodorant recipe, I use the crystal very sporadically, but I LOVE baking soda SO much!!!!!1
Thanks for starting the discussion. I have found it really interesting reading. I'm glad we're asking questions about peer pressure, beauty standards, and how to apply criticism without judgement. I got a good laugh reading some of the picking-plucking-popping confessional posts, being a little compulsive myself.
MDC Rocks!
post #198 of 416
Quote:
I keep seeing this in the thread about smelling "bad." And I would like to break that down as well
yeah. i think this is a big part of it...

i smell stronger when i don't shave. and i don't use deoderant either. most people would say i "stink" but i don't necessarily think it is a bad smell - it is just how i smell. i don't always like it, but i think that is partly because society says b.o. is bad. especially on a woman. gross. probably worse than not shaving!

sometimes i get to smelling too strong and might need an extra wash or something. but i am not going to pretend that i actually smell like peaches or something.
post #199 of 416
also op, i think that you are entitled to your opinion. if if you are wrong. even if your opinion is not informed or openminded at all. it's yours.

but at the same time, it's great that you are open minded enough to consider what others have to say and weigh that together with your own thoughts.

i do think that very few people can really shut out the voice of society in their ear...even when they think they can. but for some, their reasons for shaving are just removed from that and come from a different place altogether.

interesting.
post #200 of 416
I can understand why some people might dislike unwashed/sweaty person smell or systemic yeast infection smell. While I do have a very strong radar nose (have since my first pregnancy) for whatever reason human odors (aside from someone who hasn't cleaned up well after a BM compounded by months on end of not doing so) don't really bug me that much. I don't get much armpit smell myself. At various parts of my cycle though I can smell my 'feminine' odor, which is pretty interesting because the people around me can't (at least none of my friends who I know well enough to ask out of curiousity can). So it's actually become part of tracking my fertility, and is useful for me in giving me an early heads up if I've got a cyst growing on my ovary (I don't have PCOS, but several times a year I get ovarian cysts). I don't like it when DH wears deodorant, I love his smell and feel happier when I get a whiff. I have worked with many people who can't/won't bathe (mostly because of mental health issues), and while I wouldn't want to bury my face in their clothing and smell them all the time like I do my DH, my system adjusts really quickly, and again, sometimes it can be useful in identifying certain things (like a systemic yeast infection).

But if I had radar nose that was overwhelmed with people scents (and I know there must be people that are) frankly I can understand them wanting to do whatever worked for them to get rid of it. Or if they must work in an environment where they will be punished for not fitting into a specific standard, I have a lot of empathy for that too--not everyone can say "to hell with this job, I'm going to fight for freedom" (though again, I love it when people CAN do that.)
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