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mamas who don't shave~ what will you tell your dd and will you/do you allow shaving? - Page 11

post #201 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber View Post
Well why is the "smell" gross? I find most natural body odors not to be gross. In fact that smell, is full of pheromones meant to attract people to you. That smell is your true smell, not "spring flowers" or "baby powder" scented things.

I keep seeing this in the thread about smelling "bad." And I would like to break that down as well.

Most of the people I am around do not shower everyday, nor do they use deodorant. We manage to do just fine. We even have jobs and go out and interact in the world, so don't think we are locked away in a big stinky pile!
because I don't like the way it smells. it smells like an italian hoagie (to me), and I don't like the way those smell either. My feet sometimes smell like corn chips but that doesnt bother me because I like the way corn chips smell. I guess I don't like my true smell. Honestly, sometimes I can't stand the smell of bugars in my nose. I have a very sensitive nose. I really don't care if it's "my smell" or even if everyone else thinks I smell good. *I* don't like how it smells. I had a dog who would try to lick my armpits though. He liked the smell. But I just don't. In fact, I am not even bothered by vaginal smell or the smell of my poop, or the smell of my farts. It's only the sweat smell (under arm smell) that bothers me.
post #202 of 416
Well, I do shave, occasionally. However, I don't wear makeup. So when my girls wanted to start wearing makeup, they were on their own. I had 2 rules: 1) no sharing makeup; and 2) they couldn't look like a street walker (i.e. no heavy eyeliner, etc.). And I never taught my girls to shave their legs. They learned that on their own as well.

Not putting down your belief about shaving, but not all men shave either. My dh has worn a beard for most of our married life. I've never looked at shaving as a sexist activity. I shave when my leg hairs start tickling my legs under my jeans or when it's hot. My dh shaves off his beard when it's too hot to have it. And grows it back when it starts getting cold. We both shave/not shave for similar reasons.
post #203 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
I agree that what she does with her own body is her choice. I really just want her to understand why other people do it and the history behind it so that she doesn't just assume that it is 'what you do' like a lot of people I know do. I also don't want her to feel gross about her mommy not doing it, but living in this society it is just not accepted by mainstream folks.
That won't be much of an issue as she will already know that. After all you don't shave. And don't worry, she'll feel gross about you no matter if you shaved or didn't shave. IME, teen girls feel that their mom's behavior and dress is gross. But they grow out of it.
post #204 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
a woman's body hair increases dramatically once she hits puberty. shaving, especially removing all of the pubic hair, makes a woman's vagina resemble that of a pre pubescent girl. this is not the only beauty marker in society that serves this purpose. another example is out emphasis on being thin and eschewing the curves most women have. those curves become more prominent the closer a girl gets to adulthood.

Then how do you (or anyone here who is on the infantile side of shaving) explain men's fascination with big boobs? Inquiring minds want to know.
post #205 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by sewchris2642 View Post
Then how do you (or anyone here who is on the infantile side of shaving) explain men's fascination with big boobs? Inquiring minds want to know.
Not all men like big boobs
post #206 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber View Post
Well why is the "smell" gross? I find most natural body odors not to be gross. In fact that smell, is full of pheromones meant to attract people to you. That smell is your true smell, not "spring flowers" or "baby powder" scented things.

I keep seeing this in the thread about smelling "bad." And I would like to break that down as well.

Most of the people I am around do not shower everyday, nor do they use deodorant. We manage to do just fine. We even have jobs and go out and interact in the world, so don't think we are locked away in a big stinky pile!
I have been thinking the same thing about natural human smells and how odd it seems to me that people truely don't like them. But reading others responses I guess that ust is what it is.
I happen LOVE my DHs natural musky odor, even after working hard all day at his landscaping job.
And I am not at all offended by my own smell, even though my mom complains about it and says I smell bad to her.
I love the smell of a healthy persons natural scent but I think you have to be eating right and getting lots of water not to smell weird. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but most people I like the smell of do eat very well.

I also do not like unnatural smells like chemically deodorants or body washes and I don't even like the taste of really minty toothpaste, I prefer no flavor or something more mild like calendula. I just really don't like fake-y smells or tastes, although I don't really know anyone else besides my hubs who feels that way about body washes and stuff.
We use oils for moisturizing and scented ones are nice. Some nurses commented one time when my hubs was in the hospital, for shooting a nail through his finger, that we smelled like a health food store and I took that to mean that we smell like patchouli or something which is entirely possible as DH does like pathchouli soap. I did take it as a compliment although I think that might be subjective.
post #207 of 416
I like shaving. It is part of a grooming ritual that I enjoy. I also shave-ahem-different parts of my body for my husband. And he is decidely not interested in little girls.

I find these kinds of statements to do a lot of harm because pedophilia is a very real illness and relatively few people suffer from it. To suggest that men in general like women who shave because it makes us look like little girls just doesn't seem supported by basic evidence out there about pedophilia.

Most adult men and women-whether straight or gay (how many of us have seen gay people lumped in with sexual deviants?)-have within normal range sexual preferences and desire adult members. True pedophiles aren't interested in grown women-even shaved bare. To suggest otherwise is simply not true.

We can argue all day about the pervasive influence of mass media culture on body image and cleanliness. But lets stop equating shaving with deviant sexual behavior.
post #208 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristaDJ View Post
Not all men like big boobs
True that! My dh does not have a fascination with big boobs at all if his brief forrays into internet porn have any tales to tell.......think big booty girls to the max!
But I do think there are quite a few guys who like big boobs, just not the ones that date me as I never have and never will, unless I'm preg., they did get huge for awhile then.
post #209 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by betsyj View Post
I like shaving. It is part of a grooming ritual that I enjoy. I also shave-ahem-different parts of my body for my husband. And he is decidely not interested in little girls.

I find these kinds of statements to do a lot of harm because pedophilia is a very real illness and relatively few people suffer from it. To suggest that men in general like women who shave because it makes us look like little girls just doesn't seem supported by basic evidence out there about pedophilia.

Most adult men and women-whether straight or gay (how many of us have seen gay people lumped in with sexual deviants?)-have within normal range sexual preferences and desire adult members. True pedophiles aren't interested in grown women-even shaved bare. To suggest otherwise is simply not true.

We can argue all day about the pervasive influence of mass media culture on body image and cleanliness. But lets stop equating shaving with deviant sexual behavior.
Yes, but several women within this thread have said that they tried shaving down there completely and didn't feel god about it personally, that they themselves felt prepubescent.

I don't think that a man liking a shaved woman is necessarily a *pedophile*, but I do think he prefers a certain ideal that is not reality, it is fantasy and I think it is a loaded fantasy and I as a woman don't want to fulfill that fantasy personally. I would much rather assert a realistic ideal than squeeze myself into some smooth pink tight package. And I think the fantasy spins out of a mans desire for a younger, more naive, demure girl(although I'm sure allowances are made for sexual prowess) versus a real, strong, full, assertive woman. I'm sure there will be protests over this assertion but it is real in the world that I have seen.
When my husband worked in the strip club industry in N.O. I noticed that the girls who made the most money the easiest were selling a fantasy of a girl on the cusp of adult-hood. Think tight body and natural boobs, usually a shorter girl with a very sweet face and big eyes. Those girls would work the angle that they were naive, cute, charming but never ever assertive. They let the guy lead the whole interaction and wouls make him feel like everything was his idea. They raked in the dough with this waaaay more than the girls with the big boobs, of course those girls had their market, too.
post #210 of 416
Quote:
Yes, but several women within this thread have said that they tried shaving down there completely and didn't feel god about it personally, that they themselves felt prepubescent.
Yes great. So don't shave down there if it doesn't make you feel good. But what turns people on (or doesn't-hairy men are a turn off for me) or off isn't wrong as long as they are consenting.

Quote:
it is fantasy and I think it is a loaded fantasy and I as a woman don't want to fulfill that fantasy personally
I like letting my husband have fantasies just as he does for me. Fantasies are safe outlets and perfectly natural parts of sexuality. If you don'ty like it don't do it. But again it has nothing to do with the act of shaving.

What makes a woman strong and assertive is that she is comfortable with her body and her sexuality and is not afraid to express herself with her partner.

As to girls in the strip club I could argue that they are in fact controlling their sexuality as well and are assertive in their dealings with men. They have seen how some men act in strip clubs and have learned what works to make the most money.
post #211 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristaDJ View Post
Not all men like big boobs
Ah but not all men like shaved women. But we're not talking about *all* men we are talking about society's expectations of us and it was stated way back in the thread that society is trying to make us little girls. Well how does that work when society is bushing full breast and a nice bum? It doesn't.
post #212 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
I have been thinking the same thing about natural human smells and how odd it seems to me that people truely don't like them. But reading others responses I guess that ust is what it is.
I happen LOVE my DHs natural musky odor, even after working hard all day at his landscaping job.
And I am not at all offended by my own smell, even though my mom complains about it and says I smell bad to her.
I love the smell of a healthy persons natural scent but I think you have to be eating right and getting lots of water not to smell weird. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but most people I like the smell of do eat very well.

I also do not like unnatural smells like chemically deodorants or body washes and I don't even like the taste of really minty toothpaste, I prefer no flavor or something more mild like calendula. I just really don't like fake-y smells or tastes, although I don't really know anyone else besides my hubs who feels that way about body washes and stuff.
We use oils for moisturizing and scented ones are nice. Some nurses commented one time when my hubs was in the hospital, for shooting a nail through his finger, that we smelled like a health food store and I took that to mean that we smell like patchouli or something which is entirely possible as DH does like pathchouli soap. I did take it as a compliment although I think that might be subjective.
some people's natural body smell I don't mind. it's just me. Im a smelly person lol - but ONLY my underarms and ONLY when I don't shave. deodorant doesn't work AND I hate the smell of deodorant anyway, so even if it didnt work I dont think that would be incentive enough for me. I eat very well and drink lots of water and still have the same problem.
post #213 of 416
BTW - I've spoken to both men and women who shave "down there" and do it because the smooth feeling increases sexual pleasure for themselves - and really don't care what the other person thinks of it.
post #214 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber View Post
Well why is the "smell" gross? I find most natural body odors not to be gross. In fact that smell, is full of pheromones meant to attract people to you. That smell is your true smell, not "spring flowers" or "baby powder" scented things.

I keep seeing this in the thread about smelling "bad." And I would like to break that down as well.

Most of the people I am around do not shower everyday, nor do they use deodorant. We manage to do just fine. We even have jobs and go out and interact in the world, so don't think we are locked away in a big stinky pile!
This is another individual thing. I agree that body odor in and of itself isn't bad smelling but I'll put myself out there here and say when I don't shave I do smell bad. I mean BAD. I mean I smell myself and gag. It is something I am very self conscious about. I am a heavy sweater as well. So when I don't shave I smell very bad to the point where it is painfully obvious even to me- and I am use to the smell. Some people just too smell worse or more strongly than others. Than there is my husband who is a man and still after sweating buckets hardly smells and not even bad at all.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

With the shaving and body odor debates I have seen the same thing happen as with the bra debate- people don't take into account that not everyone is like them. You wouldn't believe how many bra debates I have been in where someone is going on and on and on about how bras are so bad for you and cause pain etc etc how they are so uncomfortable in them but feel liberated not wearing one and they find that their breasts are perkier and their back feels less tense... but they are a B cup and are talking to me- Miss 36 DDD/E. Uh, no. It is PAINFUL for me not to wear a bra.

We need to face we are all not the same physically and you know we also don't all have the same preferences. There is nothing wrong with either. Like it is offensive that people make ignorant and wrong statements about those who don't shave or wear a bra or shower daily it is also true of the oposite. I'd love not to shower and shave daily but really it makes me increadibly uncomfortable not to. I itch, my smell is so bad I get a headache even, etc. And the funny thing is my total OCD aunt thinks my grooming is waaaay too little. Go fig!
post #215 of 416
What interests me also is why people seem to think certain hygiene practices are such a new thing. Sure 1,000 years ago we didn't have Degree but men and women have been concerned about their smell and appearance since the beginning of time. We keep talking about natural well you know those things are natural to us as humans. It's just how we go about it that has changed so much over the centuries. And yes of course there is excess but that is with everything. I just wouldn't be so quick to blame society and say we are all it's pawns. Humans have been living like this for quite some time now without TV and magazines and infomercials. We naturally find that we want to be appealing and so we act on that. Of course this varies from individual to individual and culture to culture but the premise is still the same.
post #216 of 416
I dont think women not shaving is unappealing tho. I think it's pretty sexay.
post #217 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I dont think women not shaving is unappealing tho. I think it's pretty sexay.
Me too and so does my DH (I believe I stated that up thread somewhere...) I am curious as to why you felt the need to state this.
post #218 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Me too and so does my DH (I believe I stated that up thread somewhere...) I am curious as to why you felt the need to state this.
Because you are talking about people 'making themselves appealing' since the dawn of time, before degree, uninfluenced by tv... on a thread about not shaving our legs et al.
post #219 of 416
Really interesting to see all of these points of view!

I started shaving my legs around 6th grade, because of social pressures - other girls were starting to shave, & it was the "society approved" thing to do.

I stopped shaving armpits & legs a couple of years ago (was always sporadic about legs, anyhow), & frankly, I have less BO when I don't shave. I do still shave my legs sometimes, but that's because my jeans wear the hair off in patches, & it looks funny (to me). I wear deodorant, paint my nails, have long hair, & don't wear make-up. For me personally, not shaving, despite social pressures, was a result of being more comfortable with myself as I am, as well as more physically comfortable not getting razor burns, cuts, or ingrown hairs (what can I say? I'm a klutz>)

I never heard of shaving anywhere else until I was almost 40, pregnant with my 1st child, & started hanging out on expectant mother boards. The only time I've ever had "hygiene" issues are postpartum, & I wasn't about to try to start shaving then!

The funny thing is, DH is the one that colors his hair (doesn't like grey) & shaves his back & chest (says the hair itches). Personally, I like how he looks with extra hair, but it's his body - & he doesn't care whether I shave or not, but when I told him about shaving anything other than armpits or legs, he thought it sounded peculiar.

I'm going to present shaving to my girls as a choice; but they can shave or not, as feels right to them.
post #220 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Because you are talking about people 'making themselves appealing' since the dawn of time, before degree, uninfluenced by tv... on a thread about not shaving our legs et al.
I was talking initially about hygiene-wise (hence me talking about smell and Degree) and then stated at the end it varies from individual to individual and culture to culture.

To some body hair is appealing both for themselves and for others and to some it's not. Like I said, it varies. My point was this isn't some new fad. Human grooming has been happening since the beginning of time. It varies, yes, but I am saying it is more instinctual than I think people are giving credit for. I wasn't trying to say what is appealing for everyone everywhere and what it isn't.
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