mamas who don't shave~ what will you tell your dd and will you/do you allow shaving? - Page 19

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by jennydecki

I understand pubic waxing/shaving way more than I understand leg waxing/shaving.

18 *pages* of thread and NO ONE has gotten a pube stuck in their teeth? Really?! I'm pretty sparse so as long as I do a gentle hand-pull before "go time" everything is okay...but if I forget...my poor DH is up sputtering and picking at least a couple times and that really throws off my mojo.

I mean, there is a physical REFLEX when you get hair in your mouth. It's not a personal preference...it's hair...in the mouth...

That being said, I don't make DH shave, even though I might be thrilled if that happened because he's not going to think, "Oh hey I'm about to get some, better make sure I don't have any strays that aren't attached!" He's thinking "Oh hey I'm about to get some...(all else is lost LOL)" So sex time can occasionally be gag-reflex-of-doom time if there's a little hair that's just dying to be in my throat because it's not content to stay where it belongs.

Back to the upper hemisphere...I forget to shave my underarms until they start to itch and annoy me. Then I shave. It probably happens about once a month. My legs? You wouldn't know I haven't shaved since 6th grade - you just can't see the hair - so I feel like having an opinion is kind of like looking down from a place where you get the best of both worlds and making a judgment - kinda uncool, really.

My daughters might get my hairless legs or they might get the mane of leg hair that is DH's - either way I want them to do what they feel is best for them. Pink hair? No problem! Hairy underarms? No problem! Pube shaving? Well...I might try to convince them to dye it green instead and put a temporary tattoo of a sheep on top and then just shave a winding little road into the pubic hair for humor value...but that's just how I parent LMAO!

My poor kids aren't going to know what to do with themselves. I have this scary feeling that when they rebel they are going to wear skirt-suits and french twists and use hairspray and *shudder* wear sensible black pumps. Because that's really what it's about - the fun of rebellion and what that will look like for those of us that aren't mainstream to begin with.

Reminds me of Family Ties and the Michael P. Keaton character.

I think I love you. GREAT post!!

[AngeliqueW]

Originally Posted by KristaDJ

I do understand the conflict you are pointing out b/w the idea that men want us to look like little girls and the fact that so many men like huge boobs. I think the thing is that they DON'T want us to appear as children, they want us to appear as young teenagers; young and naive and virginal but with perky breasts, rounds bottoms and not much by way of pubic hair. The ones who want really big boobs are not the majority they are fetishist, and honestly I think it stems from this country's lack of breastfeeding. They seem to need breasts that appear to be engorged with milk I think men in america are, for the most part, afraid of real women and that's why they find this teenager idea so attractive. A real woman who is confident in herself presents a great challenge to a man's power. I think a woman can have just as much power while waxing her entire body and getting breast implants and hair extensions, BUT the fact is that most women in america feel trapped by these ideals and that they have no choice but to try to measure up to them whether they enjoy these practices or not.

[AngeliqueW]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

continuing with the TMI theme...big time TMI btw




um yeah i am with mags on the clump thing. i have the same problem. i have a friend with almost now pubic hair... i wish i were that lucky. i have a lot ... as in per square inch and surface area covered. it sort of goes down onto my inner thighs (hence the bathing suit problem) and right up to my c section scar and way far back over my ermm yeah ok wow awkward. and um its not just on the outside... o god i can't believe i am typing this. i always wondered if i am the only one who has pubic hair on the underside of my labia not just the outside.

you are not alone.

[Peppermint]

I read pages 1 and 2, and then realized this thread was WAY too long for me to read the whole thing tonight, so I skipped to page 19 to see what all was happening here, and I see this:

Originally Posted by jennydecki

18 *pages* of thread and NO ONE has gotten a pube stuck in their teeth? Really?! I'm pretty sparse so as long as I do a gentle hand-pull before "go time" everything is okay...but if I forget...my poor DH is up sputtering and picking at least a couple times and that really throws off my mojo.

I mean, there is a physical REFLEX when you get hair in your mouth. It's not a personal preference...it's hair...in the mouth...

: Oh my GOSH! Thank you, I am glad this thread wasn't all fighting and judgments and that someone brought some great humor (and a DARN good point!) into the discussion!

[1littlebit]

ok on the stuck in teeth subject--- one time i was talking to my best friends boyfriend online. we were going through some stuff and weren't as close at the time.. and he is telling me about their freaking sex life.. and i am thinking that it was weird to hear all this from someone else... blah blah blah.. and then he tells me two things i never wanted to know (well ok i did but i wanted to hear them from her.. and 4 yrs later these are still two of out favorite high school sex stories ) so ubbber TMI TMI TMI TMI





ok i warned you, so i am talking to him online and he tells me that was *AHEM* performing oral (am i allowed to say that?) and then they went down to dinner with his family. while they were eating dinner he pulled a pube out of his mouth.

and this one is even more personal.. he said was doing the same thing as above.. and when he looked up his mouth was erm.. bright red.

yes this kid told me this online.. knowing me and her were going through stuff.. and it turns out i wasn't the only one he told. how ridiculous is thaT?

[lilyka]

ok I skipped pages 2-11 . . . .so forgive me if this has been mentioned. to be honest mt mom did not talk to me about shaving. my friends at school did. and I did not talk to my dd about shaving until after her friends did. Sometimes I shave and sometimes I don't. My dd is the same way. we both have our individual reasons for shaving or not shaving on any given day. I am glad she feels free to do whatever pleases *her*. My point though is that we are not our childrens only influence. and you will likely not be able to stop her from being who she wants to be. influence her maybe but for whatever reasons shaving my legs was the one thing my mom was not going to be able to stop me from doing totally (I have always been a lazy shaver though ) she didn't want me shaving but wanted me to do oit safely so got me my own razor. cause in the end what could she do?

[lilyka]

and for what it is worth I am like a sasquatch . . . . My pubes get tangely, actually i am not sure where pubes end and body hair begins, my eyebrows get into my eyes, and I have weird belly hair. My man friend, we have not been intimate so am not sure what is beneath the pants but his nipple hair is braidable, his eyebrow (no s . . . not plaural, its one big eyebrow) is bushy and he could give himself pit dreadlocks. he probably shaves more than most women ironically he cannot grow a decent beard to save his life....we have discussed our preferences for this sort of thing . . . .I said "I don't like flossin' with it but I don't want it baby smooth either." so there you have it.

[gagin37]

19 pages was a bit much for me to read through, so I will just say that I do not shave, and if I ever have a daughter, I will explain to her why I don't shave, but ultimately the decision is up to her. This is the attitude my mom had, and I think it worked pretty well. I shaved when I was in middle school, and there was a lot of peer pressure. I stopped in HS and haven't since. My two sisters both shave. My mom buys them razors and shaving cream without making them feel bad about their decision, even though she doesn't agree with it.

[rhubarbarin]

I shave and epilate nearly everything. I believe it is a purely personal choice for everyone, and I don't see much difference between me shaving my pits, and men shaving their faces (or not, or partially). I don't think I will say much about it to my kids other than to answer questions they might have and stress that it's their choice and no one should try to shame them for it.

I was totally natural body-hair-wise until age 19 or so (I rejected the whole idea because I rejected most Western 'beauty standards' at the time), but once I started shaving one place, it led to another, and I far prefer it this way for a variety of reasons already discussed in the thread. I know lots of people that don't shave much or anything and hair doesn't bother me, although I prefer not having an excess of hair in a sexual partner (my BF keeps his facial hair short for me).

I've heard the shaving/pedophilia meme in every discussion about altering pubic hair I've ever heard or read. It sickens me a bit that that is where people's minds go. I have fully adult labia, as well as stubble most days of the month. No one could confuse my vulva with a child's! I have also heard people accuse those who are intimate with women who are skinny, have small breasts, or 'look young' (I happen to be all of these as well, but hello! I am a consensual adult who enjoys sex and also, all kinds of people think I look sexy, there is nothing wrong with them either) of pedophilia or latent homosexuality. Please. It's nonsense, and offensive to survivors of childhood sexual abuse (and to gay people).

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by rhubarbarin

I've heard the shaving/pedophilia meme in every discussion about altering pubic hair I've ever heard or read. It sickens me a bit that that is where people's minds go. I have fully adult labia, as well as stubble most days of the month. No one could confuse my vulva with a child's! I have also heard people accuse those who are intimate with women who are skinny, have small breasts, or 'look young' (I happen to be all of these as well, but hello! I am a consensual adult who enjoys sex and also, all kinds of people think I look sexy, there is nothing wrong with them either) of pedophilia or latent homosexuality. Please. It's nonsense, and offensive to survivors of childhood sexual abuse (and to gay people).

Again, I don't think anyone here is saying 'pedophilia' what we are saying is that there are men, and maybe a large percentage, who would ultimately prefer a younger, less experienced, less opinionated girl over an older, more experienced woman who isn't concerned with the smoothness of her armpits. Do you really not believe there are men out there like that?

[ShadowMoon]

My mom didn't start shaving until she went back to work when I was 9 or 10 years old. I never had a "shaving talk," I just remember wanting to shave in Jr. High once all of the other girls started doing it. My mom gave me a nifty electric razor (never showed me how to use a blade lol) and I would sometimes use that Nair stuff. I was never crazy about shaving and was always at awe of women who didn't.

When I met my partner in college, I was excited by the fact that his sister and none of her friends shaved at all. He could care less about hair status. I have since stopped shaving my pits (I do keep them trimmed, as well as my "mini-bush" as it's been called ) I still shave most of my legs (knees down) because I actually prefer the smoothness. I have become much more comfortable with myself and my semi-hairiness over the last few years.

If I ever have a daughter, I will approach shaving as a non-nonchalant issue. If she wants to shave, fine. If not, awesome. I think that because my mom didn't make a big deal over it it eventually became a non-issue for me. I just want my children to be themselves and be comfortable with who that person is.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

Again, I don't think anyone here is saying 'pedophilia' what we are saying is that there are men, and maybe a large percentage, who would ultimately prefer a younger, less experienced, less opinionated girl over an older, more experienced woman who isn't concerned with the smoothness of her armpits. Do you really not believe there are men out there like that?

Evolutionary scientists believe the attraction is based more on fertility then a woman's ability to assert herself. Younger woman tend to be more fertile then older women.

I'm inclined more to this way of thinking, but that is based on the younger women I know who are all very sure of themselves and very able express their opinions to men of all ages.

[l_olive]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

Again, I don't think anyone here is saying 'pedophilia' what we are saying is that there are men, and maybe a large percentage, who would ultimately prefer a younger, less experienced, less opinionated girl over an older, more experienced woman who isn't concerned with the smoothness of her armpits. Do you really not believe there are men out there like that?

I didn't realize that one could use a woman's "concern with the smoothness of her armpits" as a measure of her age, experience, or ability to form opinions.

[seaheroine]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

Again, I don't think anyone here is saying 'pedophilia' what we are saying is that there are men, and maybe a large percentage, who would ultimately prefer a younger, less experienced, less opinionated girl over an older, more experienced woman who isn't concerned with the smoothness of her armpits. Do you really not believe there are men out there like that?

I just don't see what it has to do with shaving. If a man isn't attracted to body hair (or hairless vaginas), he will move on. If a women isn't attracted to hairy (or not so hairy) man, she will move on.

I just think a lot of this argument really is offensive to most men. Most men - and women - want a partner they find interesting, intelligent, fun and well, a partner. Though the media might have us believe it, I just don't think the majority of men are these shallow, porn-obsessed beings who judge all women by unforgiving physical or age-related standards. I think the vast majority of men are kind, personable, unique individuals who are generally realistic about bodies. I think, like most women, they're just looking for an interesting person whom they're attracted to.

Different people are attracted to different things. While some men may prefer younger, less experienced and less opinionated women, I think there are just as many who wouldn't - DH as one of them. I dated quite a bit and I can honestly say I only met ONE man who was concerned with shaving -- and he was a full-body shaver himself. Every other guy was just interested in being close and intimate with my realistic, sometimes-hairy, opinionated self.

Also, there are plenty of women (and men) who prefer older, more experienced men (or women) as partners, for a plethora of reasons.

Biologically speaking, men are attracted to signs of fertility, which are more prominent in younger women. In the same token, females of most species are attracted to males with, or with access to, resources -- which older, more established men usually have to a greater degree. To a degree, a man's preference for younger mates may be a natural inclination, as a woman's inclination for socializing with older men.

I really don't think shaving has much to do with it in the big picture.

[Sorin]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, and I'm not reading all 19 pages of this monster thread, but the removal of body hair is cross-cultural and has been going on for ages. I know from my Indian friends that culturally-speaking, Indian women (I don't know about the men) strongly advocate getting rid of body hair, and this goes beyond the threading of the eyebrows! One of my friends said that she does not dare go visit relatives in India without getting rid of her forearm hair. And her grandmother has waged such a war on her body hair throughout her life that it no longer grows anymore!

To go even further back, there is ancient Egyptian artwork that depicts men and women removing their hair. I even saw one once of a man getting his pubes shaved at a "barber shop." The ancient Egyptians were somewhat obsessed with hygiene, and removing their body hair was part of their cleansing ritual.

So I say all this to say (and I don't mean any offense), that I think some people may be overthinking this a bit. Humans have been removing their hair for centuries, so be hairy or shave, it is totally a personal preference. But those of us who do shave are not tools of modern American patriarchy. There is nothing particularly modern, American, or patriarchal about hair removal.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Evolutionary scientists believe the attraction is based more on fertility then a woman's ability to assert herself. Younger woman tend to be more fertile then older women.

I'm inclined more to this way of thinking, but that is based on the younger women I know who are all very sure of themselves and very able express their opinions to men of all ages.

Well yes it is the stereotyping of the young again and again. Yes children are more swayed by suggestion but young adults? Young women? I think that within itself is ageist and sexist (to both men and women- women=lemmings and men=predators and pedophiles). No they may not have as much experience but they also may have more. It really does depend.

Originally Posted by l_olive

I didn't realize that one could use a woman's "concern with the smoothness of her armpits" as a measure of her age, experience, or ability to form opinions.

Nor did I.

Originally Posted by seaheroine

I just don't see what it has to do with shaving. If a man isn't attracted to body hair (or hairless vaginas), he will move on. If a women isn't attracted to hairy (or not so hairy) man, she will move on.

I just think a lot of this argument really is offensive to most men. Most men - and women - want a partner they find interesting, intelligent, fun and well, a partner. Though the media might have us believe it, I just don't think the majority of men are these shallow, porn-obsessed beings who judge all women by unforgiving physical or age-related standards. I think the vast majority of men are kind, personable, unique individuals who are generally realistic about bodies. I think, like most women, they're just looking for an interesting person whom they're attracted to.

Different people are attracted to different things. While some men may prefer younger, less experienced and less opinionated women, I think there are just as many who wouldn't - DH as one of them. I dated quite a bit and I can honestly say I only met ONE man who was concerned with shaving -- and he was a full-body shaver himself. Every other guy was just interested in being close and intimate with my realistic, sometimes-hairy, opinionated self.

Also, there are plenty of women (and men) who prefer older, more experienced men (or women) as partners, for a plethora of reasons.

Biologically speaking, men are attracted to signs of fertility, which are more prominent in younger women. In the same token, females of most species are attracted to males with, or with access to, resources -- which older, more established men usually have to a greater degree. To a degree, a man's preference for younger mates may be a natural inclination, as a woman's inclination for socializing with older men.

I really don't think shaving has much to do with it in the big picture.

: to the above

And when we talk about biologically speaking men preferring the more fertile and the more fertile being younger we aren't talking prepubescent which is what hairless means in the physical word we are talking younger women not female children.

As for not meaning pedophilia by suggesting men like a hairless woman to make her appear younger- hairless= prepubescent. We aren't just talking older teens and 20 somethings (read: young adults) we are talking children. That would indicate pedophilia.

Soren~ we have discussed this a bit in the thread and I think it's a valid point. We just can't blame it al on modern society and the brainless women within it.

ETA- again I don't like the more hair=more grown up thing either. As I have said some men and women just aren't hairy.

[Four&Me]

wax on, wax off?

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

man1 - jane this is john, john this is jane
jane- hi, nice to meet you
john - do you shave your pubic hair?
Jane - yes
John- nice to meet you too. would you like to see my a$$hole membership card?

lol!

Originally Posted by Liquesce

Hair removal isn't only shaving, either. I know a lot of people go all : over the notion of waxing or such, but methods of pulling hairs out en mass have long been popular too.

yes i was wondering why no one has mentioned this??
anyhow
my histroy is as follows for those interested, i shaved my legs in the 6th grade and have a huge scar to remind me.
i have dark corse hair on legs, toes, arms, knuckles, face. when i developed facial hair in 7th grade i shaved that until a few years ago. then i went around with a 'stach and stopped shaving my legs, underarms ect. i went on to cut my hair on my head that was waist length until eventually i shaved it. not bald but with a head shaver on the lowest setting. and yes i did get looks sometimes but sometimes not. and most of the time i didnt pay attention. depends on what crowd was around. ive had people come up and smell my pits (that they smelled from a distance) and say it was yummy. lol. my smell depends on what i eat. sometimes i forget to wear deodorant and the kind i use is tom's apricot and doesnt have the staying power. so sometimes i smell bad! so now i do shave my underarms when i go out if i can remember. i dont shave my legs, face, pubic region anymore. I WAX!!!! whenever i shave it gets stubbly in about 6 hours anyways so whats the point.?
and i would like to know if anyone with prominent facial hair doesnt get that waxed, bleached, tweezed, naired. or whatever. i would definitely give respect to those more then the non shavers who are have "light fine hair"

waxing is expensive so i am saving up to get it ALL lazered off. i am a bit of a packrat so letting go is hard but im giving it up.

and for the more tmi department, it is appreciated when partners are trimmed.

my children are asking me why i am laughing. that is not a conversation i am going to have at this point. lol!! but to each his own. everyone feeling good about themselves is promoted at this house.

i went out this weekend in a skirt, tshirt, 4 1/2 inch heels and long hair on my legs. (in between waxing hair has to growout..) anyways i was very fashionable. i did shave my underarms but forgot the deodorant. lol.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by magstphil

Well yes it is the stereotyping of the young again and again. Yes children are more swayed by suggestion but young adults? Young women? I think that within itself is ageist and sexist (to both men and women- women=lemmings and men=predators and pedophiles). No they may not have as much experience but they also may have more. It really does depend.

Except that evolutionary scientists work under the idea that humans are animals. Age is just one thing that express fertility to potential mates and good mates aren't just sought by men.

There are things that tend to reappear regularly in the definition of an attractive man. All of which have their own link to why he is a good man to have children with.

That doesn't mean that every man is looking for the same thing or every woman is looking for the same thing.

Also it is a medical fact that a womans most fertile years are late teens.

[barefootmama0709]

I shave all of my body hair except my arms. I cannot stand to have ANY leg, armpit or pubic hair. Nobody told me this was necessary-my mom didn't shave, and I didn't do it as a result of peer pressure. I just don't like having body hair. I actually dated someone in HS who said he wished I wouldn't shave my legs but I couldn't not do it-it bugged me too much. However, I do have OCD and I think that this is one of my obsessions.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Except that evolutionary scientists work under the idea that humans are animals. Age is just one thing that express fertility to potential mates and good mates aren't just sought by men.

There are things that tend to reappear regularly in the definition of an attractive man. All of which have their own link to why he is a good man to have children with.

That doesn't mean that every man is looking for the same thing or every woman is looking for the same thing.

Also it is a medical fact that a womans most fertile years are late teens.

Yes I wasn't challenging you I was referring to the post you quoted.