mamas who don't shave~ what will you tell your dd and will you/do you allow shaving? - Page 3

[katiesk]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

If it's supposed to be a support thread, why are you using it to decide the motives of women you don't even know, and decide that we don't even know why we do what we do, "even if we think so"? Arrogant and insulting. My only problem with women who don't shave is that too many of them make nasty, superior-minded assumptions about why other women (including me) do. If you want support, get support - but insulting other women, and then basically saying, "you can flame me if you want, but this is supposed to be a thread for support" is just taking cheap shots. I'm not flaming anybody - but you are.

i think it is ok to have strong feelings about something - like this - and while holding the feeling that something might be wrong, still not have any judgement for others who don't agree.

so the op clearly has string feelings around shaving, and she has some assumptions about others who shave...but i don't necessarily think that she is being judgemental. or i guess, i could just come from my own point of view - i really do think that most of the people i know who shave do it largely due to societal pressure. not that someone has specifically pressured them, but it is culturally weird, dirty, "hippie" etc not to shave. most people don't want to be seen as a weird, dirty hippie! anyway, i think that although my friends agree with my thoughts around shaving, they still do it because to not do it would be uncomfortable...thinking about what others think of them. i mean, they have basically said as much. so, i think that is perpetuating these unfortunate beauty stereotypes. but do i care? do i want to judge them for it? nope. everyone gets to decide what they do with their own bodies. but i do think that shaving for the most part is unfortunate.

[Mama2Rio]

i don't shave, okay i rarely shave, like 2 times in the past year. dd likes to play with my arm pit hair while she is bfing and if i shave, she just pinches me! i'm not sure what i will tell dd about shaving when she gets older. i think i'll let her form her own oppinion about it. i don't shave because it's a waste of time, it drys out my skin and it doesn't always fell natural.

personally, i don't mind body hair. my dh is very hairy. i'm italian and i'm just use to seeing hairy men growing up. my mother is very conforming with 'social norms' and always shaved. i started to shave when i was 14 because i thought i 'had to'. i felt pressured from peers and my own mother. i'm happy i'm way beyond that phase and i'm much more comfortable with my body how it is than i was as a teen and don't feel like i have to compare myself to another.

[sisteeesmama]

I really just wanted to know what other people will be doing or are doing about being an unshaven mom and explaining this complex social issue to their dd and I have gotten some good responses to that for which I am appreciative.
I do have strong feelings about this and I do have strong feelings about the responses I have gotten from women who feel the need to be defensive about their choice to shave.

I like the idea that I can authentically be myself as a mom, truely say what I feel, but still embrace my daughters right to explore this issue on her own. I know that she will open my eyes to many issues in the future, as she has already done so on her short time on this earth. Maybe this will be one of those issues, time will tell.

[limabean]

I've always thought Desmond Morris' stuff about human sexuality is really interesting. here is an excerpt of his that gives a well-balanced discussion of hair growth and removal (this excerpt is specific to pubic hair).

ETA: here is another excerpt, about armpit hair.

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by Mama2Rio

i don't shave, okay i rarely shave, like 2 times in the past year. dd likes to play with my arm pit hair while she is bfing and if i shave, she just pinches me! i'm not sure what i will tell dd about shaving when she gets older. i think i'll let her form her own oppinion about it. i don't shave because it's a waste of time, it drys out my skin and it doesn't always fell natural.

personally, i don't mind body hair. my dh is very hairy. i'm italian and i'm just use to seeing hairy men growing up. my mother is very conforming with 'social norms' and always shaved. i started to shave when i was 14 because i thought i 'had to'. i felt pressured from peers and my own mother. i'm happy i'm way beyond that phase and i'm much more comfortable with my body how it is than i was as a teen and don't feel like i have to compare myself to another.

It really is such a vast waste of time, LOL!
When I have lived with female roommates in the past it amazes me how much time they spend shaving, it has to happen like everyday......which blows my mind. I don't even shower everday and that is truely an understatement. And the shaving is really just the tip of the iceberg as far as time wasted on "beauty" regimens, but that is another post that I will probably never attempt!

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by limabean

I've always thought Desmond Morris' stuff about human sexuality is really interesting. here is an excerpt of his that gives a well-balanced discussion of hair growth and removal (this excerpt is specific to pubic hair).

ETA: here is another excerpt, about armpit hair.

I'm still reading your first link. Thanks!

[KristaDJ]

I will tell my daughter this: http://radicalchristiancrunchyknotty...-we-shave.html and if she still wants to shave that's her business as long as she's old enough to control the razor and not slice herself up.
We are tv free but we still have to deal with worldly influence. Just tell her how you feel mama and support her decisions even if they are different. I'm fully prepared to have a high heel/make-up/nail polish wearing shaven/waxed daughter lol. It's just not that much of an issue for me as long as I stress to her that she doesn't need those things but is choosing them because she likes them for herself.

[Storm Bride]

You know what? Never mind. I'm just a drone who does what the men tell me, anyway.

[holyhelianthus]

KristaDJ~ I am reading your blog post in spurts and loving it so far.

sisteeesmama~ I hope you don't mind me sticking around. I did come here because I have 5 daughters and am curious about things like this. I didn't mean to turn the thread so OT but the comments being made about women like me were just so far off. I understand wanting a support only thread but it's hard to maintain one when comments are made that can be hurtful and untrue about a group of people, ykwim? So I spoke up. It's what I do. Again, sorry I took your thread so OT. Hope you don't mind if I stick around. As I said this is something with having daughters that I do have on my mind .

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by magstphil

KristaDJ~ I am reading your blog post in spurts and loving it so far.

sisteeesmama~ I hope you don't mind me sticking around. I did come here because I have 5 daughters and am curious about things like this. I didn't mean to turn the thread so OT but the comments being made about women like me were just so far off. I understand wanting a support only thread but it's hard to maintain one when comments are made that can be hurtful and untrue about a group of people, ykwim? So I spoke up. It's what I do. Again, sorry I took your thread so OT. Hope you don't mind if I stick around. As I said this is something with having daughters that I do have on my mind .

Of course I don't mind *at all*, like I said I like you and often times we agree pretty succinctly, don't we! So we don't agree on this really at all, I am still glad to have you in this thread

[Ruthla]

I haven't shaved in several years. It's my body, and I'm happy with my G-d given womanly hair.

However, I trust that once my daughters are old enough to grow womanly hair of their own, they're old enough to make their own decisions about their bodies. DD1 started shaving her legs around age 12. I buy her razors and I taught her how to shave safely. I also remind her frequently that she doesn't HAVE to keep on shaving if she doesn't want to. She's recently stopped shaving her armpits although she still does shave her legs.

DD2 doesn't really have anything to shave just yet, and at this point plans to remain fuzzy. But we'll see what happens in a few months or years- if she changes her mind, that's OK too.

I know all the societal reasons for shaving, the history of it, etc. But the fact remains that my kids DO live in the current world, and if either or both of them is more comfortable with her body if she shaves, it really is OK. I'm not going to push my ideology onto THEIR bodies. It's only hair. It grows back.

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by pinksprklybarefoot

*I* do shave, but every time my stepdaughter has asked a question about it, I have always told her that it is something that some women do, but it is your body and your choice once you are older. Just like anything else people do to their bodies (piercing, tatoos, make-up, hairstyles) I don't want her to think that it is something that she has to do.

I'm not sure how you would go about outright forbidding it - it might become quite the power struggle when she is a teen if all of her friends do shave. It is probably the sort of thing that you would want to start talking to her about at a young age.

Same here. When dd has asked me about shaving, I tell her that some women do it and some don't. I've also told her that it's her decision to make whether or not to shave when she's older. I always add that some people think it looks very gross or unattractive when a woman doesn't shave, but people who think that are definitely wrong, and there's not a thing gross about body hair.

I guess I don't really have a strong opinion on shaving or not shaving. Do whatever feels best for you! I don't feel like forbidding shaving/not shaving is really fair. I can't imagine that most parents would force their children TO shave, so it seems weird to forbid a child to do it, KWIM?

[sisteeesmama]

Thanks for all of the great ideas/comments/input I have gotten!


And Krista, I LOVE that blog post of yours, I send people to that to explain how I feel about this issue for myself, it really is perfect!

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by Doodlebugsmom

Same here. When dd has asked me about shaving, I tell her that some women do it and some don't. I've also told her that it's her decision to make whether or not to shave when she's older. I always add that some people think it looks very gross or unattractive when a woman doesn't shave, but people who think that are definitely wrong, and there's not a thing gross about body hair.

I guess I don't really have a strong opinion on shaving or not shaving. Do whatever feels best for you! I don't feel like forbidding shaving/not shaving is really fair. I can't imagine that most parents would force their children TO shave, so it seems weird to forbid a child to do it, KWIM?

For the record, although I think I made it clear, I would *never* tell her she couldn't shave, that IMO would be weird and creepy. I support her for whatever, my issue is making it plain as day in a positive way that not shving is the normal thing and shaving is actually kind of wierd when you know the history of it. (Plus it's just not necessary and I would like to instill values in her well beyond her looks. I would love it if beauty could be about personality, intellect, creativity. Not something to devote copious amounts of time to in the external sense. And I can even see how clothes and hair and makeup lend to a persons own expression of themself, but I find it hard to correlate that to shaving.)

[Aleo]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

If it's supposed to be a support thread, why are you using it to decide the motives of women you don't even know, and decide that we don't even know why we do what we do, "even if we think so"? Arrogant and insulting. My only problem with women who don't shave is that too many of them make nasty, superior-minded assumptions about why other women (including me) do. If you want support, get support - but insulting other women, and then basically saying, "you can flame me if you want, but this is supposed to be a thread for support" is just taking cheap shots. I'm not flaming anybody - but you are.

:
I agree with this but.....


I can see were you are coming from sisteeesmama, I personally hated my body hair as a child just as other mamma said. I started shaving when I was 8,I told my older sister to do it. My mom was furious about it, but heck I didn't felt comfortable. Once I was hospitalized for 3 weeks, couldn't shave. Got home and it was the first thing I did. I just felt unclean, I dont mean it to offend but that's the way I felt...

[sparklefairy]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

And I also in my heart don't believe that any woman truely shaves only for her own self, that is my true belief, whether they think they do or not. (Flame if you like, but this is supposed to be a support only thread.)

That would be really difficult to determine.

I mean, I can say that I shave only for my own self in that no one has asked me to and I only do it when I feel like it. But I know that I probably do it partly because I have culture whispering in my ear.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

For the record, although I think I made it clear, I would *never* tell her she couldn't shave, that IMO would be weird and creepy.

I think the reason people are saying that they wouldn't try to control what their DD's do (shave or not) is b/c of the word "allow" in your title. That's all. To me, it seems weird and controlling regardless of motive to say no when a child wants to shave. I had a friend that couldn't shave until she was 16, b/c for some reason that was the 'acceptable' age to shave. My thoughts are that the only danger is the risk of injury, which is why I would teach my DD how to shave carefully with a standard razor, or show her how to use an electric one like I use.

[churndash]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

Why? I really thought I made it clear what I was looking for in my OP.....

Because in your subsquent post you made the statement that no woman would choose to shave for her own reasons, that the only reason women shave is because of societal pressure, even if the woman says she is choosing to for her own reason she's just fooling herself or subconsciously trying to comply to the "norm", etc.

That was NOT what you said in your OP and took the discussion to a different place.

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by churndash

Because in your subsquent post you made the statement that no woman would choose to shave for her own reasons, that the only reason women shave is because of societal pressure, even if the woman says she is choosing to for her own reason she's just fooling herself or subconsciously trying to comply to the "norm", etc.

That was NOT what you said in your OP and took the discussion to a different place.

No, I did not take it to a different place than I intended. I said that I definately do not agree with shaving in my OP and then said that I don't like shaving in all of my subsequent posts.
I do think it is impossible to say that you know you shave only for yourself because everyone is influenced in ways they don't even comprehend.

[betsyj]

GOD. Shave or don't but why trash people who make different choices then you do? Silly and infantile? Nice.