"I want blue, no red, no blue, no red, noooooooo!"

[siobhang]

My three year old ds is driving me nuts.

He is very verbal for his age, and has up to now been pretty reasonable. He is a kid that redirection or choices worked well with.

Not any more.

Not always, but starting about six months ago, and intensely increasingly over the past few weeks, he gets into this state where he wants two mutually contradictory things - he wants to have water, and NOT have water. He wants sit in this chair AND that chair. He wants to go pee pee AND wear his pants at the same time (and not wet himself). He wants to go to the store with daddy AND stay home with mommy. You get the picture.

And if we let him, he'll go back and forth, back and forth, with increasing intensity, until he is completely wound up and screaming/sobbing on the floor.

It is very frustrating for all involved.

When it is possible/reasonable for him to have both options, we say sure - the other night he wore underpants AND a pullup to bed (normally the choice is one or the other).

We have started putting limits: he gets ONE decision and ONE change of heart. Whatever the last change of heart was, that is what we go with. And we have stopped offering him so many choices, and just telling him "you use the blue toothbrush" - but then we get pushback "NO! I want the orange one!!!"

See, I don't think this is about the actual choice, but rather a power struggle with us - it feels like he really wants to pick a fight and this is his way of doing it.

He does it with me, his dad, and our nanny, and we are all struggling to figure out how to head this off in some positive way. 'Cuz right now, I got nothin'...

If I understood what the motivation is, I think I could handle it better - if he were simply having a tantrum because I said it was bedtime, for example, and he didn't want to go, I can deal with that. But this just seems completely bizarre to me - what does he actually want? We spend a lot of time with him, are always open to cuddles and conversation, he gets a fair amount of one on one time.

I am just exasperated...

[sapphire_chan]

Does it help at all to have "fights" over truly silly things and let him convince you? "I think the moon tastes like popcorn!!" "No! It's banana!!!"

Or wrestling games, or "get past the parent" games, ala Playful Parenting.

It'd be worth a shot to see if that helps him with some power experimentation when it won't irritate you so much.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Does it help at all to have "fights" over truly silly things and let him convince you? "I think the moon tastes like popcorn!!" "No! It's banana!!!"

Or wrestling games, or "get past the parent" games, ala Playful Parenting.

It'd be worth a shot to see if that helps him with some power experimentation when it won't irritate you so much.

Yeah, we do stuff like this too - like getting the words to a song wrong, and he corrects us, or we act like we don't know what something is, and he has to tell us.

We are pretty GD in our approach, but we do use timeouts for intentional hurting (we have two boys and a 4 year old who is also cared for by our nanny).

I just don't know how to deflate a suddenly escalating situation that seems to come out of nowhere.

One example: we were finishing up at Ikea and he said he had to go poop. So I took him to the bathroom. I took off his pants, and he refused to sit on the toilet, absolutely refused.

Okay, now annoyed but trying to be understanding, I attempted to get his pants back on so we could leave the bathroom, only he refused. He wouldn't get his pants on, he wouldn't leave the bathroom, but he wouldn't sit on the toilet either. There was NO reasoning with him at all - he was just hysterical. Oh, and he kicked me in the face when I tried to force him to put his pants on.

In the end, he was curled on the bathroom floor UNDER the toilet (ewwwwww) in the fetal position, screaming and crying "I just want to go poopy, mommy, please let me go poopy!" WTF?

I ended up hauling his butt out of there, forcing him to put on his pants and man-handling him out the door, and then handed him to his father saying "HERE, YOU TAKE HIM"

Ah, good times. :

ETA: honestly, if I knew what he wanted or needed, I'd gladly give it to him. But I have no freakin' clue.

[LynnS6]

It might help to look at this stage slightly differently -- he's realizing that by making a choice, he's giving up something too. So, if he chooses the red cup, he can't have the blue one. If he goes with Daddy, he can't stay home with Mommy.

We dealt with this in two ways. We reduced the number of choices we offered. Actually, I found for both my kids offering 'choices' worked great at 2, and once my kids hit 3, they were no longer effective in giving my kids a sense of control over their lives. My kids, when offered the red or blue cup, would loudly declare they wanted the purple one! What worked better was saying "go to the cupboard and choose a cup please."

We also set a time limit on choices. If they couldn't choose by X time (usually we'd set the timer), then we'd choose for them.

And then we'd offer lots of empathy, ala How to Talk So Your Children Will Listen. "I know it's hard to choose." "You seem sad you made the choice you made."

I also second being completely silly about things .

[GuildJenn]

What Lynn said. My son had a terrible time at that phase (realizing chosing one was giving up the other, and being able to hold both in his mind at the same time). He had literally two hours meltdowns over each choice.

I second stopping as much of the "choice" thing as possible - presenting a pair of pyjamas, a cup, etc., rather than the "red or blue?" thing. We also talked about our own choices out loud a lot "would I like tea or water? Hmm, tea will take longer. Water will be colder. I think I'll have water."

But oh, I would not like to go back to that phase. It does pass.

[foreverinbluejeans]

It might not be about power at all. We let society convince us our children's behavior is about power and attention. That's the messed up kids.

Your child may have trouble because the choices seem equal. Haven't you been at the store and had a hard time choosing something and had someone trying to make you hurry. That makes it harder to choose.

I suggest there be as close to no choices at all. Have everything picked for him and don't use the word choice.

[BellaClaudia]

yes it is nothing personal it is the phase.

since they all share it.. :-)


we also figured out that choice are now more of a problem then a solution

nowdays instead of giving choices I try to suggest somethign in most attractive way..

example.. for breakfast I used to offer.. a list..
pancakes.. cerial, hot oatmeal.. etc etc..

and now I go downstairs and already from there I start..
mmm.. I so feel today like delicious pancake with a face of straberries
and blueberries on it.. mmm.. does int it sound delicious?..

then my dd shouts.. I want THAAAAAT!

soloved..
and few monts ago would be..
I want pancakes.. no I want oatmeal.. no I want farina.
no.. I want pancakes.. cry, histeria.. etc..

and then I would do something she settle for finally all upset her and me..
and once on the table.. she would go.. no I don't want that
I want something else..

other mechanism triggered by three choices was:
I want all of them!

so that should be more common knowledge :-) because
somehow early on everbody tells you.. yeah.. do choices.. do choices..
and then when you are stuck with those blue or red no blue.. no red..
nobody yels at you no choices.. no choices!

take back choices.. that is not at this developmental stage!

so god bless this community!

here we can learn all those ins and outs

[octobermom]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

It might help to look at this stage slightly differently -- he's realizing that by making a choice, he's giving up something too. So, if he chooses the red cup, he can't have the blue one. If he goes with Daddy, he can't stay home with Mommy.

We dealt with this in two ways. We reduced the number of choices we offered. Actually, I found for both my kids offering 'choices' worked great at 2, and once my kids hit 3, they were no longer effective in giving my kids a sense of control over their lives. My kids, when offered the red or blue cup, would loudly declare they wanted the purple one! What worked better was saying "go to the cupboard and choose a cup please."

We also set a time limit on choices. If they couldn't choose by X time (usually we'd set the timer), then we'd choose for them.

And then we'd offer lots of empathy, ala How to Talk So Your Children Will Listen. "I know it's hard to choose." "You seem sad you made the choice you made."

I also second being completely silly about things .

DItto to pretty much all this. Our DD went though the same thing drove us crazy but we HAD to limit choices both in how we said it and what she could do. So we bought one toothbrush a set of cups all in the same color even and there for brush your teeth meant get the ONE pink toothbrush and brush no choice of blue or yellow avaiable. HAve some water meant get one of the disney princess plastic cups and filling with water those were the cups that what was used.. I know for my DD her apraxia made things a lot harder cause she fought for words though.

Deanna

[St. Margaret]

I've read about this-- it's totally developmentally normal. They realize they are choosing, and then their brains want to explore the opposite, the other choice... DD does this fairly often these days, and we just sort of wait her out. She will normally wind down to what she wants after a moment, or a distraction to break out of the dueling options helps, or just reconnecting after the storm.

[candipooh]

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans

It might not be about power at all. We let society convince us our children's behavior is about power and attention. That's the messed up kids.

Your child may have trouble because the choices seem equal. Haven't you been at the store and had a hard time choosing something and had someone trying to make you hurry. That makes it harder to choose.

I suggest there be as close to no choices at all. Have everything picked for him and don't use the word choice.

I agree.


My dd was like this from day one. It is just who she is. She is now 7 (will be 8 in a few days) It was really bad when she was a toddler. My other two where never like that.
Dd would even fuss to nurse and then push away when I latched her on. The shoe situation was a nightmare. Sandals, no tennis shoes no sandals no tennies. It has changed a little as she has gotten older. Now when she needs to make a decision (for example "you can pick one things at the dollar store when we go shopping") she will take a VERY long time deciding. We often have to put a time limit on it and at times we have left the store with nothing.

Sorry no advice I hope a hug will suffice [hug]

[aaronsmom]

We're going through this with our 3yo DS. I'm loving the suggestions in this thread! Keep 'em coming because I've been at wits end at times.
To the OP, no real advice 'cause I'm in the same boat but I can commiserate. s I hope you and DC can find a solution that benefits both of you!

[siobhang]

these are very very helpful, thank you. I especially like the concept that it is a brain development thing of the reality of closing a door on the "road not taken". Heck I know adults with a hard time making commitments because they feel like they are losing the opportunity for the other choice, ya know?

[swd12422]

Not to hijack, but I have a question for those who say to take away the choices: Does that mean that for those of us who aren't at this point yet (DS is only 18 months), we shouldn't even start with offering choices? Or offer them as long as they don't provoke a meltdown and then take them away?

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by swd12422

Not to hijack, but I have a question for those who say to take away the choices: Does that mean that for those of us who aren't at this point yet (DS is only 18 months), we shouldn't even start with offering choices? Or offer them as long as they don't provoke a meltdown and then take them away?

In my opinion as a mother of one () - don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Often the choices are helpful or developmentally appropriate. Then they aren't. Then they can be again. We offer my son choices again now, although we have to be more sophisticated about them (like 'would you like red or blue PJs' has turned into 'hey pick your pjs'). Choice is a nice part of life. Unless you're around 3 and suddenly experiencing angst.

I think if you're tuned into your kid and can figure out what's stressful and what's helpful, you'll find the balance.

[Deir]

I haven't read every post so sorry if I am repeating what others have said but this sounds alot like my son. I have found that offering fewer choices helps him. "Breakast is - toast today."" Here are your clothes for today." It sounds like your ds may be stressing about trying to decide- if you take away so of the intellectual struggle by making the choice for him- you may take away some of his stress.

[Llyra]

I remember DD1 as a three year old doing that, and I remember clearly how nuts it drove me.

I found that my best strategy was just to say, very calmly, "okay, well come find me when you decide," and then remove myself from the situation. I'd go sit down in the next room or wherever, and settle to doing something, like folding laundry or reading a magazine, and act like the whole thing didn't upset me at all. She'd eventually come to me ready to make a choice. Sometimes she'd yell for awhile first, though. Understandably so, and I'd offer honest sympathy, as in, "You're really frustrated, huh?" but I'd still refuse to get in a back-and-forth thing.

This is hard when you're in a hurry, but I do find it works-- if a child is really being argumentative (and I think a lot of 2 and 3 year olds really just enjoy the capacity they have to disagree and argue with us), the best way to defuse the conflict is just to quietly refuse to wrangle. Just be like, "okay, that's fine, you let me know when you're ready." With DD1, once she grasped that I was calm and uninterested in escalating the issue into a fight, she stopped feeling the need to make an issue of every little choice.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Llyra

I remember DD1 as a three year old doing that, and I remember clearly how nuts it drove me.

I found that my best strategy was just to say, very calmly, "okay, well come find me when you decide," and then remove myself from the situation. I'd go sit down in the next room or wherever, and settle to doing something, like folding laundry or reading a magazine, and act like the whole thing didn't upset me at all. She'd eventually come to me ready to make a choice. Sometimes she'd yell for awhile first, though. Understandably so, and I'd offer honest sympathy, as in, "You're really frustrated, huh?" but I'd still refuse to get in a back-and-forth thing.

This is hard when you're in a hurry, but I do find it works-- if a child is really being argumentative (and I think a lot of 2 and 3 year olds really just enjoy the capacity they have to disagree and argue with us), the best way to defuse the conflict is just to quietly refuse to wrangle. Just be like, "okay, that's fine, you let me know when you're ready." With DD1, once she grasped that I was calm and uninterested in escalating the issue into a fight, she stopped feeling the need to make an issue of every little choice.

I think this is really good advice (no sarcasm). It didn't work for my son though, at least not visibly. He once laid in the hall for 45 minutes crying trying to decide which way to go - while we were in the kitchen.

[mommysarah5]

I would say "okay, I'll put 1 red and 1 blue on the table, and when you make up your mind you can get it yourself"

or

"go pick the toothbrush you want to use."

[Mom2M]

Wow, thank you for posting this! I understand more now what is going on with 3.5 year old DD! She doesn't do it all the time but has started doing it and it drives me nuts! I never thought of it this way~as giving up another choice~and that makes total sense when applied to what she's been doing!
Thanks!
Deb

[lizabird]

Wow, when I started reading the original post here, I thought I was reading one of my own posts from a few years back! :LOL

We went through the exact same phase when ds was 3 and yes, it was horrid. Oh, actually, he's 5.5 now and it can still be horrid. I think what generally works best for us in that situation is, if you anticipate any problems with offering a choice, avoid the questions like "do you want a blue cup or a red cup?" and just open the cupboard and ask "which cup do you want" or even better yet, just serve the water in the cup before he gets to the table and hope he just takes the cup offered. My ds has recently done such things as go to the cupboard and take one cup of each color (and unfortunately we have a lot of multi colored cups!) fill each one with water and drink them all ebcause he couldnt' decide which color he wanted. But as long as he's doing this all himself and not screaming about it, I don't care.

Anyway, I found some situations where I woudl offer a choice, other times I woudl just offer the object, and most situations as he was old enough, just have him select his own cup, clothes, toothbrush, etc. i.e. "please choose the clothes you want to wear" since whatever I choose he automatically rejects.

hth,