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Swedish parents decide not to reveal 2-year-old's gender-Thoughts?? - Page 10

post #181 of 199
post #182 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by greeny View Post

Why? Why is it so bad to allow people to know the gender of your child? I just don't see it as such a huge negative.
Because what is between a kids legs is somehow a huge deal to some when looking at and interacting.

Examples:
My 4yo has hair that is a couple of inches from his butt. The next door neighbor has a granddaughter near his age. Her mom said she could play with my son because she saw long hair and despite boyish clothes thought he was a girl. He said that he is a boy, and all of a sudden because he has some hanging stuff rather than a hole there, she looked shocked and shoved her daughter behind her back into the house then backed in herself staring at us and slammed the door.


He has red hair. He has had people come up and give him all kinds of complements on the color. Some people have then gotten a a disgusted look, and said "oh" and walked away upon finding out that he is a boy.

You don't see this as wrong and detrimental?

My dad won't leave me alone about cutting his hair. I have my reasons for not doing it, he is my kid, so leave me alone is my opinion on that.
He keeps saying people will think he is a girl. Exactly why is this a bad thing? A woman told me he might grow up and be emasculated. I asked why being masculine would be tied to having his hair cut off when in general men hve MORE hair than women?

Also I keep asking why it is anyones business what is between his legs.

Interestingly enough, they couldn't or wouldn't answer those.

I have thought about it some more and wanted to add this: When Iwas pregnant with all three, I literally had people ask me "What is it?" or "Is it a boy or girl?"
and when I answered "A baby!" with a smile, that was somehow a dig at them and I got yelled at for not telling people. Oh, or "Oh, come on, you have to tell me! what is it? I know you know, why won't you tell me?" :headbang: Why in the world does it matter to some random stranger what is hanging or not on a child that iis still INSIDE my freaking uterus?? Ugh.
post #183 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama View Post
Glad you pointed these things out. It does indeed seem like those who are outraged are outraged because the parents are keeping the child's sex from the child... when that's not the case at all.

Because that is not the case, I don't understand why this is an issue with people. All the parents are doing is bypassing the social construct of gender until their child is ready to declare it, rather than declaring it for their child and forcing him/her into a social construct. I think this is a great idea.

Oh for goodness' sake, who said they were outraged? At best, people (including myself) have expressed a general mild dislike of the idea.

It think it's massive exaggeration to say that people are "outraged".

Like a dozen other topics on this board, it's something that I wouldn't do with my kid, but is ultimately none of my business if someone else does it.

So I said I didn't think it was the world's greatest idea. So what? Are we only allowed to post if we agree?
post #184 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by churndash View Post
Oh for goodness' sake, who said they were outraged? At best, people (including myself) have expressed a general mild dislike of the idea.

It think it's massive exaggeration to say that people are "outraged".

Like a dozen other topics on this board, it's something that I wouldn't do with my kid, but is ultimately none of my business if someone else does it.

So I said I didn't think it was the world's greatest idea. So what? Are we only allowed to post if we agree?
People have said the child is going to have identity problems and be damaged by the actions of the parents.

Those are pretty strong sentiments from people who have a "general mild dislike of the idea".
post #185 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Because in the articles the parents said that it'll stop being a secret when Pop decides to tell people. Pop can't tell people if Pop doesn't know. Ergo, Pop knows.
Hmmm...interesting. Just because they're waiting until Pop tells, doesn't mean they're actually letting him/her in on the secret. It's quite possible that they just name the parts and leave the gender info out.
post #186 of 199
Quote:
My 4yo has hair that is a couple of inches from his butt. The next door neighbor has a granddaughter near his age. Her mom said she could play with my son because she saw long hair and despite boyish clothes thought he was a girl. He said that he is a boy, and all of a sudden because he has some hanging stuff rather than a hole there, she looked shocked and shoved her daughter behind her back into the house then backed in herself staring at us and slammed the door.


He has red hair. He has had people come up and give him all kinds of complements on the color. Some people have then gotten a a disgusted look, and said "oh" and walked away upon finding out that he is a boy.

You don't see this as wrong and detrimental?
Of course I see those things as wrong and detrimental. But they illustrate to me the ignorance and stupidity of those particular people, not the necessity of hiding your 4-year-old's gender from everyone. (I mean, if you choose to, that's your decision. But it doesn't seem like a satisfactory or long-term solution.)
post #187 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by greeny View Post
Of course I see those things as wrong and detrimental. But they illustrate to me the ignorance and stupidity of those particular people, not the necessity of hiding your 4-year-old's gender from everyone. (I mean, if you choose to, that's your decision. But it doesn't seem like a satisfactory or long-term solution.)
I think the best solutions are the ones where you worry about changing yourself first, instead of trying to change others in the world around you :
post #188 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by onelilguysmommy View Post
My 4yo has hair that is a couple of inches from his butt. The next door neighbor has a granddaughter near his age. Her mom said she could play with my son because she saw long hair and despite boyish clothes thought he was a girl. He said that he is a boy, and all of a sudden because he has some hanging stuff rather than a hole there, she looked shocked and shoved her daughter behind her back into the house then backed in herself staring at us and slammed the door.
It's possible that she would have let her DD play with a boy who had short hair. So the real problem was what is hanging from his head and not what is hanging between his legs.

So what really needs to be is that we learn to accept boys as they are and girls as they are, not hide what they are. Whether that is a boy with hair down to his ankles, or a girl with a mohawk.
post #189 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by onelilguysmommy View Post
Examples:
My 4yo has hair that is a couple of inches from his butt. The next door neighbor has a granddaughter near his age. Her mom said she could play with my son because she saw long hair and despite boyish clothes thought he was a girl. He said that he is a boy, and all of a sudden because he has some hanging stuff rather than a hole there, she looked shocked and shoved her daughter behind her back into the house then backed in herself staring at us and slammed the door.
I wish I could says I am shocked that an adult would treat a child that way.. but unfortunately I am not. I have had people treat my kids that way because we are atheist. Oh you can't play with that girl! She doesn't believe in God!
post #190 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstridS View Post
The original swedish article says this:

Men, vill både Jonas och Nora understryka, Pops kön är ingen stor hemlighet. Det är inget som är tabubelagt eller hyschigt. Pop själv är fullt medveten om vad som finns mellan de egna benen och föräldrarna har pratat med Pop om att alla barn har antingen en snopp eller en snippa. Och utöver Pop, Jonas och Nora så vet även en handfull personer bland familj och vänner, som varit barnvakt och bytt blöja, vad Pop har för kön. Men Nora och Jonas säger själva aldrig han eller hon till eller om Pop, utan alltid Pop.

I'll try to translate/parafrase:

Both Nora and Jonas underlines that Pops gender is no big secret. It's not layered with taboo. Pop knows what's between Pops own legs and the parents have talked to Pop about the fact that all children have either a penis or a vagina. And aside from Pop, Nora, and Jonas, a handfull of people among family and friends, who have babysat and changed diapers, know Pops gender. But Nora and Jonas never says he or she to or about Pop, they always say Pop.
Thank you Astrid!

Honestly, I'm not getting the sense that they're hoping to let Pop choose Pop's own gender. I'm more getting the sense that they're wanting to help Pop decide what being a particular sex means for Pop without early outside influences.
post #191 of 199
n/m
post #192 of 199
they can keep it a secreat for now but I have never met a three year old who can keep from spilling the beans.....

and between two and three I could rarely keep pants on my kids....

pop pop pop pop sorry... everyone has gotten to say it a million times.
post #193 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post
It's possible that she would have let her DD play with a boy who had short hair. So the real problem was what is hanging from his head and not what is hanging between his legs.
Even still, what this woman thinks should be hanging from his head comes from what is hanging between his legs.
post #194 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Even still, what this woman thinks should be hanging from his head comes from what is hanging between his legs.
So right.

Just got another comment today about the long hair of my 3yo (boy). About needing to cut it, 'not cutting' would interfere with healthy (physical) development (lol, and what about girls' hair then cfr. gender 'appropriateness' and pgysical development?), would 'offer' (I honestly think the person in q was SERIOUS when saying the following) to cut ds's hair because he has a trimmer at home that would do the job...and it would never have been a poroblem if we would have started shaving ds's hewad from when he was a baby????? As a reaction to my saying that this is ds's hair style and I would cut SOME of it but since he is high needs I need to find a good moment for this anyway (it was a bit messy I admit, but ds is higly sensitive ands resists many things, such as touching/combing hair! I won't try/do any of this without initial consent!).Guy and grandson left playground pretty soon and I do think it was partly due to not wanting to be there when we were there after the unveiling conversation...

If ds instead would've been a long or short haired girl the hair(cutting) wouldn't have come up AT ALL.

This being just an example of what pop's parents are trying to avoid regarding pop's exposion to people's gender-biased ideas and attitudes from an early age, to have him/her learn from own experience rather then from people's opinions on gender and so-called gender-appropriateness and gender-specific treatment...
post #195 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post
So what really needs to be is that we learn to accept boys as they are and girls as they are, not hide what they are. Whether that is a boy with hair down to his ankles, or a girl with a mohawk.
:
post #196 of 199
I really love the idea behind this. It would never have worked with DD. She has been quite the nudist since a very young age. All one would have to do is spend a few hours with us at the park and her sex would be known.
post #197 of 199
I think this idea has been taken to an extreme but to each his own I guess. I don't see how it can help the child any. Not sure that it would hurt the child either, but how fair is it to do this to them? I'm not saying if it's a girl give it dolls or a boy and give it cars and trains, but I have a boy and a girl and treated them as such from an early age and they both liked both boy/girl toys when they were younger up until they were old enough to notice what others kids their same gender were doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Eh, the article says they'll let the LO decide when to reveal gender. My guess is that it will either never matter or the year from age 3 to 4 will be filled with telling every single person on the street about his or her genitals. "I have a penis like Daddy and I'm a boy!!!" as the case may be.
I agree. The child will see their same sex parent and know what gender they are and learn from there.
post #198 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I wish I could says I am shocked that an adult would treat a child that way.. but unfortunately I am not. I have had people treat my kids that way because we are atheist. Oh you can't play with that girl! She doesn't believe in God!
how sad. But the difference in your situation is that you are raising your child to believe this way aren't you? And I'm just assuming that your DD didn't decide to not believe in God on her own at such a young age, and that you must be of the same belief? That isn't the same situation as what the OP is describing since she said that they aren't guiding their child in any one direction and are instead leaving it up to them to decide what to do.
post #199 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by darcytrue View Post
how sad. But the difference in your situation is that you are raising your child to believe this way aren't you? And I'm just assuming that your DD didn't decide to not believe in God on her own at such a young age, and that you must be of the same belief? That isn't the same situation as what the OP is describing since she said that they aren't guiding their child in any one direction and are instead leaving it up to them to decide what to do.
i don't get this reasoning... is your argument that its okay for a parent to make a personal choice for a child but not okay to let a child make a personal decision for themselves? I hope I am misunderstanding.
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