Swedish parents decide not to reveal 2-year-old's gender-Thoughts?? - Page 2

[RiverSky]

Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber

btw the appropriate word is "intersexed"

okay, thanks, that was silly of me...

[tbone_kneegrabber]

Originally Posted by limabean

Ideally, yes. But I can imagine lots of people in society leaning towards treating a child of unknown gender more like a boy than like a girl. Because it's okay to call a girl strong and daring, but it's not okay to call a boy pretty or dainty (), so they'd err on the side of the masculine. Hopefully not, but I can see it happening.

That has not been the case for us. When someone reads ds as a girl they treat him that way and when they read him a boy they treat him as a boy. I have actually found "girl" to be the default not boy.

[tbone_kneegrabber]

Originally Posted by greeny

For some reason I can't quite articulate, it doesn't sit right with me.

I mean, let's say the family is out at a park. Someone asks them, "Is your child a boy or a girl?" They will then refuse to answer.

Why? Why is it so bad to allow people to know the gender of your child? I just don't see it as such a huge negative.

I DO like raising kids and allowing them to explore and be who they want to be. I do NOT like it when parents say, "No, dolls are for girls. You should play with trucks," to their little boys.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with allowing people to know the gender of your children. And I find it strange that people would refuse to share that information.

I hate that question. Personally I feel like someone is coming up to me, looking at my kid and asking "penis or vagina?" And I want to say Kid! I am sure when people ask Pop's parents, "oh boy or girl?" They replay "Their name is Pop" which is often how I answer the question except "Their name is August"

I think its strange that you feel like you have the right to know someone's gender? Why do you have the right to know? If you can't tell, then you can't tell, use gender neutral language and get to know the person, which is what is important issue anyway.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber

I hate that question. Personally I feel like someone is coming up to me, looking at my kid and asking "penis or vagina?" And I want to say Kid! I am sure when people ask Pop's parents, "oh boy or girl?" They replay "Their name is Pop" which is often how I answer the question except "Their name is August"

I think its strange that you feel like you have the right to know someone's gender? Why do you have the right to know? If you can't tell, then you can't tell, use gender neutral language and get to know the person, which is what is important issue anyway.

:

No one would ask "Are you a man or a woman?" of an adult, so why a child?

[txbikegrrl]

Actually, I've had kids and teens ask me when I had short hair and was growing out my eyebrows (long story). I'm sure adults wondered but didn't ask.

My DH does a LOT of "feminine" things but is very stereotypically "male" in other ways. Vice versa for me. We are raising DS to do what he wants and we don't have any stereotypic toys.

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by sunshadow

That's fine, but I don't really get it. Every child I have know has shown very specific gender differences.

Okay, so what exactly are these 'very specific gender differences' you have observed.

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber

I hate that question. Personally I feel like someone is coming up to me, looking at my kid and asking "penis or vagina?" And I want to say Kid! I am sure when people ask Pop's parents, "oh boy or girl?" They replay "Their name is Pop" which is often how I answer the question except "Their name is August"

I think its strange that you feel like you have the right to know someone's gender? Why do you have the right to know? If you can't tell, then you can't tell, use gender neutral language and get to know the person, which is what is important issue anyway.

I agree. The gender question always bothered me for that exact reason. They're babies, toddlers, children, not sexual organs.

[mommariffic]

Who cares

I can't help but think, is this really news worthy?

Maybe I'm just not radical enough, but who really cares. My daughter is a daughter yes, but she can play with trucks and eat worms and play with dolls and do what she wants. She wears pink, and she wears blue, but I don't need to make a big deal about not "labeling" her.

It just seems so "look at me, giving the finger to the world by refusing to say whether my kids a girl or boy.." I like to think I brought my kid into the world without a P or B stamped on her forehead, and so many other parents do, but it's not in the news

“Child-rearing should not be about providing an opportunity to prove an ideological point, but about responding to each child’s needs as an individual,” Pinker tells The Local.

And again, maybe I just don't understand

[mommysarah5]

I think it's fine. I don't understand why anyone would give them a hard time about it. It's interesting how many things are deemed as acceptable decisions for a parent to make for a child, but when someone makes the decision to let their child decide for themselves everyone goes up in arms. I think its great. I think they have a good reason for doing it, and its not like they aren't allowing the child to share their gender they are just waiting for their child to decide. If they werent going to allow the child to tell then I wouldn't like it, but otherwise I think its fine. It may not be something I would do personally, but when it comes to "parents rights" I can definitely support a parents right to let the child decide.

[bebebradford]

Originally Posted by mommariffic

Who cares

I can't help but think, is this really news worthy?

Maybe I'm just not radical enough, but who really cares. My daughter is a daughter yes, but she can play with trucks and eat worms and play with dolls and do what she wants. She wears pink, and she wears blue, but I don't need to make a big deal about not "labeling" her.

It just seems so "look at me, giving the finger to the world by refusing to say whether my kids a girl or boy.." I like to think I brought my kid into the world without a P or B stamped on her forehead, and so many other parents do, but it's not in the news

“Child-rearing should not be about providing an opportunity to prove an ideological point, but about responding to each child’s needs as an individual,” Pinker tells The Local.

And again, maybe I just don't understand

You hit the nail on the head sister!

Sometimes, I think some people are more into the "image" of being unconventional..then actually putting it to good use in their parenting.

[Mulvah]

Originally Posted by mommariffic

Who cares

I can't help but think, is this really news worthy?

Maybe I'm just not radical enough, but who really cares. My daughter is a daughter yes, but she can play with trucks and eat worms and play with dolls and do what she wants. She wears pink, and she wears blue, but I don't need to make a big deal about not "labeling" her.

It just seems so "look at me, giving the finger to the world by refusing to say whether my kids a girl or boy.." I like to think I brought my kid into the world without a P or B stamped on her forehead, and so many other parents do, but it's not in the news

“Child-rearing should not be about providing an opportunity to prove an ideological point, but about responding to each child’s needs as an individual,” Pinker tells The Local....

Best post in this thread.

[Snuzzmom]

Originally Posted by mommariffic

Who cares

I can't help but think, is this really news worthy?

Maybe I'm just not radical enough, but who really cares. My daughter is a daughter yes, but she can play with trucks and eat worms and play with dolls and do what she wants. She wears pink, and she wears blue, but I don't need to make a big deal about not "labeling" her.

It just seems so "look at me, giving the finger to the world by refusing to say whether my kids a girl or boy.." I like to think I brought my kid into the world without a P or B stamped on her forehead, and so many other parents do, but it's not in the news

“Child-rearing should not be about providing an opportunity to prove an ideological point, but about responding to each child’s needs as an individual,” Pinker tells The Local.

And again, maybe I just don't understand

I agree with this. My first reaction was, "Well, good for you. Here's a cookie." ???

In all fairness, these parents may not have gone to the press, but the press found out and reported on it, which really isn't the parents fault.

I also feel like they've now drawn even MORE attention to their child's gender. It's actually sort of intriguing now, whereas before I doubt anyone really gave a toss either way.

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber

I hate that question. Personally I feel like someone is coming up to me, looking at my kid and asking "penis or vagina?" And I want to say Kid! I am sure when people ask Pop's parents, "oh boy or girl?" They replay "Their name is Pop" which is often how I answer the question except "Their name is August"

I think its strange that you feel like you have the right to know someone's gender? Why do you have the right to know? If you can't tell, then you can't tell, use gender neutral language and get to know the person, which is what is important issue anyway.

exactly.

[Amylcd]

Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~

I agree. The gender question always bothered me for that exact reason. They're babies, toddlers, children, not sexual organs.

There are MANY differences between the male and female body, and very few of them are sexual organs.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

:
No one would ask "Are you a man or a woman?" of an adult, so why a child?

you may ask another person if you are unsure. just like you ask a parent about the child

as a francophone, gender is deeply ingrained. its offensive to not use gender. i don't like when people call my baby an 'it' i'd rather them call him a girl. its just small talk anyways people like kids, they can't help but ooh and coo

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by mommariffic

Who cares

I agree with this part of your reply. Who cares? why do people care SO much to know the gender of these people's child? The ones who are demanding an answer on the gender and getting worked about not knowing are the ones who are making this into way more then it has to be.

[Wugmama]

I think this is cool. I can't imagine it can go on forever, but for every day the keep the gender to themselves, that is one more day where their child was not [directly at least] exposed to gender bias. I can't see where this will cause any problems for the child and I doubt they would go to extreme measures to hide it.

I am reminded of a diagram in one of Jesper Juul's books, Your Competent Child, where he shows a diagram of someone setting limits on a child, which looks like a stick figure inside of a circle which surrounds the figure, and a diagram of setting limits to protect yourself, like not allowing a child to hit you, and it looked like a taller figure with an arc separating them from the little figure. I think by the parents not disclosing the gender, they are protecting the child from the incoming messages he/she would doubtless receive based on gender, not forcing some limit upon him that will affect him/her later in life.

I read once that differences in treatment start in the womb when mothers find out their babies' gender. Bellies holding girl babies get more rubs, while bellies holding boy babies get more pats. The messages from society only get more pronounced from there.

Someone in the unschooling forum recently posted a quote from their very young child who said something to the effect, "When I go to school and learn real stuff..." even though the family has always been pro-unschooling. They were shocked that at such a young age the child could have picked up these widespread mainstream views about school. I think a similar case could be made about gender stereotypes. No matter how you try to allow your child to enjoy not being pushed toward gender stereotypes, society will get in the way. These Swedish parents are going the extra mile toward trying to minimize that.

~Tracy

[sapphire_chan]

I bet it was someone who got in a huff about it who brought it to the media's attention.They are probably sadly disappointed that the thrust of the article wasn't "oh those deluded parents destroying their poor innocent child."

Again, Pop gets to choose when to share their gender. So I really don't see why anyone else needs to be up in the family's business.

[Snuzzmom]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

I bet it was someone who got in a huff about it who brought it to the media's attention.They are probably sadly disappointed that the thrust of the article wasn't "oh those deluded parents destroying their poor innocent child."

Again, Pop gets to choose when to share their gender. So I really don't see why anyone else needs to be up in the family's business.

I do agree with that part. Seems like they were able to avoid it for a couple years and then someone went to the press. I wonder what happened there/ why.

The grammarian in me is having issues with the "their," since I assume Pop is a singular entity. It guess it's better than s/he?

[Viola]

Normally this is the kind of story that I think would have me rolling my eyes, but I think it's a cool idea. Not because I think it will work perfectly or because I think we are striving for androgyny in society, or because I think the differences between the sexes aren't important, but because we have so many ideas tied up with gender and it is so integral with us that we start forming our mindset about people from the moment we know their gender even in the womb. We claim it is all nature and instinct, but a lot of it is the social construct aspect of it, and anything that gets us to reexamine it might have some usefulness.