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Swedish parents decide not to reveal 2-year-old's gender-Thoughts?? - Page 4

post #61 of 199
I shared this with some other parents, and one said she was disgusted they "make" the child wear dresses (if they turn out to be a boy).
post #62 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommariffic View Post
Who cares

I can't help but think, is this really news worthy?
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wugmama View Post
I think this is cool. I can't imagine it can go on forever, but for every day the keep the gender to themselves, that is one more day where their child was not [directly at least] exposed to gender bias.
See, but that is why this whole thing is missing the point... It shouldn't be that we have to HIDE a person's sex to not have gender bias.

And, for the "all babies are born babies and sex doesn't matter..." There will be a lot of feminist mamas who have bought their boys babydolls that have languished while they only crash trucks and daughters who only wear pink sparkly skirts (me and my sister- I have a son and a room of traditionally "girl things" that sit there, my sister has a masters in womens' studies and a daughter who wants to wear princess clothes all the time... Both have never been in daycare, are TV free, husbands are feminists as well, etc.). Not ALL kids ALL the time, but biology does count. There is a reason that male and female are different and recognizing the opposite sex is vitally important in the animal world for reproduction. Humans have their own take on it, but with a sexually reproducing species, knowing who to go to make babies with is where all the biology boils down. We, as a society have to come beyond that, but to deny it is there is ultimately counter-productive.

And... we ALL choose our gender (sex is the parts your born with, gender is which one you feel. Most of the time they are the same, sometimes they are different). For those who chose a gender that is not their sex, there is a tough row to hoe. THAT is the problem. Everyone is all worked up about a toddler, "waiting for them to choose". Pop could CHANGE his/her MIND later. As could any child. So, waiting for them seems silly if we were all more accepting of what others decisions are. And, if those decisions did not include hard and fast rules (boys don't wear pink, girls don't have short hair, whatever). Making a big deal of language acrobatics and getting everyone all worked up seems pointless if we could say "Pop is male and decided to be female, so here she is" at whatever point in his/her life the decision was made. So, my kids were born boys. Since for most people, gender and sex is the same, we'll go with boys unless they say different. Then, we'll roll with it. I don't need to "wait" for them to decide for me to be accepting of who they are, as life brings many changes and takes a while to have some things come clear.
post #63 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norasmomma View Post
Why is being a gender so negative? I mean there are boys and girls, men and women-we are in fact different biologically. I guess it's just not a big deal to me.

I honestly think that it is a little weird personally, JMO.

This was my first thought as well. Makes about as much sense as everyone running around wearing full-body paper bags so that the issues of different races would magically disappear. I think it'd be far more productive to embrace differences and educate kids on the positives of being either... along with continuing the work toward equality and respect for all people.
post #64 of 199
Just for the record.. you could have had your child simply say, "say thank you." This way you weren't addresses if the bagger was a him or a her.
post #65 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norasmomma View Post
I get that, but most of the time there is a difference biologically.

I honestly don't see why so many people get their feathers all ruffled over gender. I mean I get it when it is in a negative way, but what bothers me is so much is put on the negatives of gender. Why is it so positive to be gender neutral-I just don't think there is one "right" way about this.

I think it is odd that no one knows, but do I care, umm no, it really is none of my business. I think that the parents making a big media frenzy over it is honestly much more detrimental to this child, than whether or not the child is a girl or a boy. This seems more about the parents than them trying to protect their child from the big bad world of being gender stereotyped.
With what the parents in the article are doing isn't so much as gender neutral as it is gender inclusive. Their child has pants and dresses. They aren't trying to eliminate all gender they are trying to include both genders.
post #66 of 199
Oh my :, this is gender neutral gone wrong.

Personally i find it equally sad parents who don't let their son wear pink because it's too girly and parents who don't let their daughter wear pink because it's no GN enough, I hope that once this child is old enough the parents will follow his/her lead on gender issues.

I personally do believe that gender is a big part of who we are, and not because society told me so you can see it in tribes and animals males and females ARE different, I love every bit of my womanhood and I'm very proud to be a woman. I don't want to be equal to men I want us to all have the same rights and opportunities, but within whatever gender a person chooses to identify with I think people should embrace their gender.
post #67 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
With what the parents in the article are doing isn't so much as gender neutral as it is gender inclusive. Their child has pants and dresses. They aren't trying to eliminate all gender they are trying to include both genders.
You can still do that while aknowledging the child's born sex... "He"s can wear dresses .
post #68 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
You can still do that while aknowledging the child's born sex... "He"s can wear dresses .
Yeah but what they are doing is eliminating the "why is your son wearing a dress?" factor.

Let their child be who he/she is with out having to worry about the nasty comments some people will make for the time being.
post #69 of 199
A rose by any other name (or nameless)...
post #70 of 199
The debate you all are having is interesting to follow. My first thought was simply how freeing for my children it would be if they hadn't, already at ages 3 and 4, been exposed to a world of such grand gender bias.

My ds does something "rough and tumble," the same thing dd probably did an hour earlier, and a woman near us at the park says in a voice audible to *both* ds and dd, "He's all boy, isn't he?"

My ds is extremely handsome, but folks fawn over my dd for how "pretty" she is non-stop, while rarely commenting on her very high activity level. dd's activity level is way higher than ds' activity level, but ds is constantly told he's a "busy boy!"

My close friend, who is totally p.c. in a million ways, was watching her son play "firefighter" and "shoot" the water out of the hose, and she turned to me in front of all our kids and said (fortunately, fairly quietly), "boys just play differently don't they?" Meanwhile, ds has never thought to make anything "shoot" and dd is the one I could see doing that.

A birth relative of ds gave the kids both teddy bears recently. ds received the green one, dd the purple one. Nevermind that ds' all time FAVORITE color is purple.

People engage with dd in conversation way more than ds, even more than I can imagine explaining by way of ds' speech delays. Meanwhile, ds has all kinds of interesting things to say.

When guy relatives start gathering the kids to play football, it seems like our total jock dd is the last to be invited (most of the time we have to ask for her to be invited)...meanwhile all the male cousins, even ones younger than her, are quickly included (ds is invited, but most often declines).

The list could go on and on.

I wish they could be more free to be authentically who they are without constant questioning.
post #71 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
With what the parents in the article are doing isn't so much as gender neutral as it is gender inclusive. Their child has pants and dresses. They aren't trying to eliminate all gender they are trying to include both genders.
post #72 of 199
Quote:
Also, what Susan Pinker says about children gravitating to their own gender playmates is just wrong/inaccurate/not true.
Maybe in your experience, but I've worked with kids for ten years, and had my own for 8 1/2, and I have found that to be the case.
post #73 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
The debate you all are having is interesting to follow. My first thought was simply how freeing for my children it would be if they hadn't, already at ages 3 and 4, been exposed to a world of such grand gender bias.

My ds does something "rough and tumble," the same thing dd probably did an hour earlier, and a woman near us at the park says in a voice audible to *both* ds and dd, "He's all boy, isn't he?"

My ds is extremely handsome, but folks fawn over my dd for how "pretty" she is non-stop, while rarely commenting on her very high activity level. dd's activity level is way higher than ds' activity level, but ds is constantly told he's a "busy boy!"

My close friend, who is totally p.c. in a million ways, was watching her son play "firefighter" and "shoot" the water out of the hose, and she turned to me in front of all our kids and said (fortunately, fairly quietly), "boys just play differently don't they?" Meanwhile, ds has never thought to make anything "shoot" and dd is the one I could see doing that.

A birth relative of ds gave the kids both teddy bears recently. ds received the green one, dd the purple one. Nevermind that ds' all time FAVORITE color is purple.

People engage with dd in conversation way more than ds, even more than I can imagine explaining by way of ds' speech delays. Meanwhile, ds has all kinds of interesting things to say.

When guy relatives start gathering the kids to play football, it seems like our total jock dd is the last to be invited (most of the time we have to ask for her to be invited)...meanwhile all the male cousins, even ones younger than her, are quickly included (ds is invited, but most often declines).

The list could go on and on.

I wish they could be more free to be authentically who they are without constant questioning.
: Arbitrary gender stereotypes are harmful and they do shape and mold our children no matter how much some of us try to shield them.
post #74 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Yeah but what they are doing is eliminating the "why is your son wearing a dress?" factor.

Let their child be who he/she is with out having to worry about the nasty comments some people will make for the time being.

Yes, but the point (and the long-term solution) isn't that we "avoid" nasty comments, but fight them. That is why this is not fair to put a child in the center of this.
post #75 of 199
Wonder what they fill in forms. The psychological gender and the physiological gender are both part of ones identity. Does society force you into a gender mold or is it your acceptance/expression of gender that creates the norm?
post #76 of 199
Quote:
The debate you all are having is interesting to follow. My first thought was simply how freeing for my children it would be if they hadn't, already at ages 3 and 4, been exposed to a world of such grand gender bias.

My ds does something "rough and tumble," the same thing dd probably did an hour earlier, and a woman near us at the park says in a voice audible to *both* ds and dd, "He's all boy, isn't he?"

My ds is extremely handsome, but folks fawn over my dd for how "pretty" she is non-stop, while rarely commenting on her very high activity level. dd's activity level is way higher than ds' activity level, but ds is constantly told he's a "busy boy!"

My close friend, who is totally p.c. in a million ways, was watching her son play "firefighter" and "shoot" the water out of the hose, and she turned to me in front of all our kids and said (fortunately, fairly quietly), "boys just play differently don't they?" Meanwhile, ds has never thought to make anything "shoot" and dd is the one I could see doing that.

A birth relative of ds gave the kids both teddy bears recently. ds received the green one, dd the purple one. Nevermind that ds' all time FAVORITE color is purple.

People engage with dd in conversation way more than ds, even more than I can imagine explaining by way of ds' speech delays. Meanwhile, ds has all kinds of interesting things to say.

When guy relatives start gathering the kids to play football, it seems like our total jock dd is the last to be invited (most of the time we have to ask for her to be invited)...meanwhile all the male cousins, even ones younger than her, are quickly included (ds is invited, but most often declines).

The list could go on and on.

I wish they could be more free to be authentically who they are without constant questioning.
I'm going to quote you too!

I have a dd and a ds, and I have had similar experiences to what you describe.

But I'm not sure that hiding a child's gender is the solution. Maybe a very, very temporary one, but not a long-term way to deal with this issue.
Quote:
Yes, but the point (and the long-term solution) isn't that we "avoid" nasty comments, but fight them. That is why this is not fair to put a child in the center of this.
Totally agree.
post #77 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
You can still do that while aknowledging the child's born sex... "He"s can wear dresses .
totally true my friend's son wear dresses more than my DD. I just find this whole thing kinda silly, it's just another thing to grab onto for the media. I still believe this is more for the parent's to gather attention(whether it be good or bad) then it really is about the child getting to be whatever he/she may want to be.

What I find odd is that no really has seen except mom and dad, does anyone else find it odd considering how hard it is to keep clothing on a 2.5 y/o?(I'm joking, but for me it's nearly impossible to keep my DD clothed).
post #78 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by seawind View Post
Wonder what they fill in forms. The psychological gender and the physiological gender are both part of ones identity. Does society force you into a gender mold or is it your acceptance/expression of gender that creates the norm?
What forms? They live in Sweden. Pop is only 2 years old.
post #79 of 199
I haven't read the replies, but my 2 cents is that I wish parents would not use their children to make their own political statements. There's trying to make the world a better place for your child and using your child as a billboard . . . My heart goes out to that child and all the emotional baggage this is going to cause (which, is what his/her parents were hoping to prevent, right?).
post #80 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicalGirl View Post
Oh my :, this is gender neutral gone wrong.

Personally i find it equally sad parents who don't let their son wear pink because it's too girly and parents who don't let their daughter wear pink because it's no GN enough, I hope that once this child is old enough the parents will follow his/her lead on gender issues.

I personally do believe that gender is a big part of who we are, and not because society told me so you can see it in tribes and animals males and females ARE different, I love every bit of my womanhood and I'm very proud to be a woman. I don't want to be equal to men I want us to all have the same rights and opportunities, but within whatever gender a person chooses to identify with I think people should embrace their gender.
they are already doing this. they allow the child to choose between both boys clothes and girls clothes. the child has been taught about male body parts and female body parts. the only ting these parents are doing is they are referring to the child as who they are without the gender attached. They call Pop by his/her name. "This is Pop" instead of "this is our daughter/son, Pop" and they have said that whenever Pop wants to reveal Pop's gender that they support Pop in doing that.
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