Pregnant & Alcohol - Page 2

[azedazobollis]

T o the OP, The only thing you can do is move on and have a healthy pregnancy. Dont waste time worrying about FAS for the rest of the pregnancy. Alcohol is a teratogen. It damages and kills cells. You have the whole rest of the pregnancy to grow and build cells. I have a child with FASD. she is 4. I have no idea how much her birth mother drank. But I am fully aware of what alcohol can do to the unborn infant. Best to not drink. You have a lot of building to do this early in pregnancy so there's no sense in imagining - at this point that you will have a child with a FASD.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2AJ

I read on a mainstream site that a 2008 study found that 200mg of caffeine (the equivalent of just two drip percolated coffees) doubles your chance of miscarriage. I was amazed, I never even worried about it with my first pregnancy.

I think the risk of alcohol FAS in very early pregnancy is lessened.
Think about it, Wk 1 & 2 of pregnancy you aren't really pregnant (haven't even ovulated yet) and Wk 3 you haven't implanted yet. Wk 4 you have been pregnant for 4 days and the placenta hasn't developed yet. So the risk of alcohol entering your baby's bloodstream is very minimal.

Dont stress it

Yeah, but that same site also mentions that not all studies showed that. The study also didn't say that 200mg will do it, it said to keep it UNDER 200mg due to the results of the study. It didn't say how many of the moms were taking in more than 200mg it just said "200mg OR MORE" doubled the risk of miscarriage.

Previously, the only study that linked caffeine to miscarriage was done on mice and they were given very large doses. Still, the 200mg or less recommendation does seem to be prudent.

Also, Baby Center is not exactly the most reliable website for some things, they can be very big on the fear mongering.

ITA about drinking in very early pregnancy. The baby is not even developing organs until week 5. And further, to get FAS/FAE, you really do have to drink a considerable amount. The idea that you can have a glass of wine with dinner a few times and give your baby FAS or FAE is unproven. Not saying it's impossible, it's just yet to be proven is all. It's probably a difficult thing to prove, though, as some have pointed out.

[badgerbaby]

Isn't that how most pregnancies happen??

Don't think twice about it.

[azedazobollis]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2AJ

I think the risk of alcohol FAS in very early pregnancy is lessened.
Think about it, Wk 1 & 2 of pregnancy you aren't really pregnant (haven't even ovulated yet) and Wk 3 you haven't implanted yet. Wk 4 you have been pregnant for 4 days and the placenta hasn't developed yet. So the risk of alcohol entering your baby's bloodstream is very minimal.

Dont stress it

The alcohol is a teratogen.Traveling through the bloodstream isnt the "damaging" factor. Alcohol destroys cells. Forget the "bloodstream, it's eating the cells that create the bloodstream. Im just trying to make the point so that people dont think a little drinking is safe while pregnant. Take an egg, crack it open in a jar, pour vodka on it. Watch what it does to the egg. You can try this with coffee, it does nothing. Alcohol is the worst "drug" you can do while pregnant. It is the most damaging. Whether the child has typical FAS features or not, there are lasting effects and issues that are caused from drinking.

[Doberbrat]

Originally Posted by badgerbaby

Isn't that how most pregnancies happen??

Don't think twice about it.

there are SO MANY things you can freak yourself out over. I personally wouldnt keep drinking regularily once the 2nd line appeared but I really think many of these things are just fate/bad luck etc.

and really 4-5 drinks over a 2wk period is really not alot.

: congratulations on your pg!

[Tattooed Hand]

Originally Posted by ~kitnkaboodle~

No offence but European countries don't even recognize valid research nor do they warn about the dangers of FAS/E because they don't think any of the research is valid. Its all in the book I mentioned.

Well, my mom drank before she knew she was pregnant with me and she drank moderately while she was pregnant (1 -3 drinks a week) because that was the norm in the country she lived in at the time. I am 33, about to finish a PhD at Harvard, have been in a steady and happy marriage for close to 6 years (9 years for the relationship) and have never had memory and mental health or physical problems. Also, my father is a research doctor who specializes in women's health (and thinks my homebirth is a great idea) in Paris.

Perhaps Europeans discredit the over the top paranoia about such things as even one drink will give you a FAS baby because it should be discredited. I haven't read the book you mention, but I do find all the of the anti-caffeine/anti-alcohol stuff in this country to be over the top. As long as you are careful and moderate and listen to your body (since moderate for everyone is different), many of the things they scare you into avoiding completely here are fine. It's everyone's personal choice, but I think women should have the facts. And some voices of moderation need to be heard since the scare version is so dominant.

[Astraia]

My sister found an article for me on one of the feminist site she reads religiously (that I can't recall, so unfortunately I can't reproduce my facts) about pregnancy and drinking.

It had a stat that with alcoholic mothers (we're talking MANY MANY drinks here) who continued drinking through their pregnancy, there was only a 5% chance that they would have a baby with FAS. One binge-drinking woman has only a 5% chance of having a baby with FAS. That's REALLY low.

And there are countries even now where drinking during pregnancy isn't condemned the way it is here, and where doctors recommend a glass of red wine a week or to have some Guiness to help with low iron problems

The article said that in the US (I'd say North America in general) our stigma on drinking is not related to the health of the baby but as a social indicator of how good a parent you'll be. It's easy for other parents/dr's/general public to look at you and say, "you are/ will be a horrible parent, and we are allowed to judge you, based only on the fact that you drink."

it's like whenever I drink a coke or eat a chocolate bar or a sausage or have uncooked deli meat or feta cheese (or or or or or) SOMEONE feels it is their god-given right to point out that I'm doing something horribly wrong and endangering the health of my baby because my goodness, don't I KNOW that saturated fats/ sugar/ whatever is BAD FOR THE BABY?!?!? Don't I realize how SELFISH I'm being by putting my wants and desires over that of the baby?

I think it's a judgement thing- so dr's can feel important, so the rest of the world can make it easier to make snap calls about your behaviour and the kind of parent it will make you.


Sorry, this is getting away from me. But it REALLY bothers me how hot and bothered people get by a few drinks (or whatever else they happen to be focusing on) and how they feel they can tell me - a grown woman, an autonomous person- what I can and can't do.

I'm still drinking here and there throughout this pregnancy. I think the "any alcohol is bad alcohol" scare tactics are just that- scare tactics.

(on a related note to studies beign wrong/ misinforming: did anyone see the study on fish and mercury? They did a study on women in northern europe some place (like... um... Norway?? I can find it again as needed, but I'm lazy), and these women ate a LOT of seafood, even things that we're told are high in mercury and on the no-no list. The study showed their babies were smarter and healthier than women who restricted their fish intake and had absolutely no signs of mercury toxicity, leading researchers to conclude that they MAY have been wrong in limiting fish intake for pregnant women. )

[whoabethy]

Originally Posted by Astraia

it's like whenever I drink a coke or eat a chocolate bar or a sausage or have uncooked deli meat or feta cheese (or or or or or) SOMEONE feels it is their god-given right to point out that I'm doing something horribly wrong and endangering the health of my baby because my goodness, don't I KNOW that saturated fats/ sugar/ whatever is BAD FOR THE BABY?!?!? Don't I realize how SELFISH I'm being by putting my wants and desires over that of the baby?

:

what you eat and drink during pregnancy is a highly personal decision...just because you're pregnant doesn't make your body public domain!

i have a lot of feedback i could give people about their non-pregnant eating and drinking habits, but i don't. why? because it's not my business.

[Greenmama2AJ]

Take an egg, crack it open in a jar, pour vodka on it. Watch what it does to the egg. You can try this with coffee, it does nothing

Lol, this is a funny little experiment you've devised.

Here's a better idea. Crack an egg. Pour whatever you like on it because scientifically, it means nothing. Unless you're studying the effects of pouring things on eggs of course I'm not saying that pouring pure alcohol on anything is a good idea. But, fortunately, that is not how our bodies work biologically.

I recognise that alcohol is a teratogen Christine.
But that does not mean that it changes every cell in a living organism.
A teratogen would have to have contact with the cells for them to change. The main way this occurs is through the bloodstream or through direct contact (ie. someone rubbing something on their skin). This is why alcohol is a significant cause of cancer, it is easily passed through our bloodstream.

Fortunately, our bodies also have the amazing capacity to repair and rebuild damaged cells. And even more fortunately, embryo's dont have contact with the mothers bloodstream. We could debate the effect of alcohol on a mothers eggs, prior to fertilisation but then you're talking about whether anyone should drink any alcohol, ever. I agree - I would need to see some sources and science to discuss that further.

It had a stat that with alcoholic mothers (we're talking MANY MANY drinks here) who continued drinking through their pregnancy, there was only a 5% chance that they would have a baby with FAS. One binge-drinking woman has only a 5% chance of having a baby with FAS. That's REALLY low.

This is more along the line of what I have heard.
Even if we were conservative and dramatically elevated that and said 50% of women who drank heavily developed FAS - that's still 50% who have 'normal' children after long term heavy drinking.

The poor OP does not need to worry!

[~kitnkaboodle~]

Originally Posted by Tattooed Hand

Well, my mom drank before she knew she was pregnant with me and she drank moderately while she was pregnant (1 -3 drinks a week) because that was the norm in the country she lived in at the time. I am 33, about to finish a PhD at Harvard, have been in a steady and happy marriage for close to 6 years (9 years for the relationship) and have never had memory and mental health or physical problems. Also, my father is a research doctor who specializes in women's health (and thinks my homebirth is a great idea) in Paris.

Perhaps Europeans discredit the over the top paranoia about such things as even one drink will give you a FAS baby because it should be discredited. I haven't read the book you mention, but I do find all the of the anti-caffeine/anti-alcohol stuff in this country to be over the top. As long as you are careful and moderate and listen to your body (since moderate for everyone is different), many of the things they scare you into avoiding completely here are fine. It's everyone's personal choice, but I think women should have the facts. And some voices of moderation need to be heard since the scare version is so dominant.

So just because your mom drank and you turned out fine doesn't mean everyone does. If I had the book that I wrote down all the stats in I would write it all out here.

My aunt's doctor told her to drink a glass of wine at dinner to help her blood flow and guess what My aunt is now paying the price of that with a son that has FAE so don't tell me that the studies here are unfounded and don't promote moderate drinking because it can have SERIOUS effects

[Doberbrat]

the OP had 4-5 drinks BEFORE finding out she was pg.

b/c your aunt had a glass of wine w/dinner every night and has a FAS child is no reason to freak the poor OP out anymore than she already is.

She isnt asking if she should have a glass of wine every night, she's ALREADY HAD 4-5. She had them before there was a placenta. probably before implantation for that matter. it simply wont have any effect.

[Tattooed Hand]

~kitnkaboodle~: You gave your perspective and I gave mine. I'm not telling everyone to have a drink every night, just that in my experience of living in alot of different places, occasional light drinking (like having half a glass of wine 1-3 times a week) is considered fine and in those societies there are not high rates of FAS.

People should hear different perspectives when they go to make their own choice, especially when they ask.

And I certainly don't think that TonyaW's baby is in trouble because she had one glass of wine at a time 4-5 times over the course of 2 weeks. But that's just my opinion, which is what she asked for, thank you very much.

I would be more worried about the novacaine, the effects of which I know nothing about.

[geekgolightly]

Originally Posted by ~kitnkaboodle~

So just because your mom drank and you turned out fine doesn't mean everyone does. If I had the book that I wrote down all the stats in I would write it all out here.

My aunt's doctor told her to drink a glass of wine at dinner to help her blood flow and guess what My aunt is now paying the price of that with a son that has FAE so don't tell me that the studies here are unfounded and don't promote moderate drinking because it can have SERIOUS effects

I have never heard of anyone drinking one drink a night and having a child with FAS/FAE.

[Talula Fairie]

...

[sugarpop]

First and Foremost to the OP, many many people have done way worse than what you are describing and their babies have developed perfectly. There are many now moms that were not TTC and became pregnant, prior to finding out they too had a couple drinks. I would relax and let the worry go. The stressing out over this is probably worse than actually doing it...and you won't have a stress induced baby diagnosis either. So enjoy your pregnancy and congrats!:

I am not trying to add fuel to the fire, but here I go anyways.

On this site we are constantly questioning AMA or intervention and acknowledging the miricles of the body. So with all this contradicting research doesn't it make you stop and wonder if a diffinitive cant be shown then maybe noone knows what they are talking about? Scare tactics use absolutes. "Alcohol absolutely not at all while pregnant or else" seems to be a scare tactic to me. I wonder if FAS isn't sometimes misdiagnosed. Is the diagnosis open for interpretation? Is it like ADD, way overdiagnosed? Oh you had a drink while pregnant..hmmm then you know what this must be FAS.

I don't believe that european women are made differently than american women. Although apparently AMA has used this as a reason why we are treated differently here when pregnant...we are more high risk! Europeans consume alcohol in a healthy manner, in moderation, as a part of their diet. Maybe it is all the carbs we eat in the US or the Fast food that we eat that cause some of these diagnosis. I think the truth of the matter is healthy living leads to a healthy birth. If you can lead a healthy life, drink a glass of wine with dinner, love your SO, have a bowl of fruit for dinner and sleep 8 hours, waking up stress free and be happy then I think this will impact your child more than that one drink.

Oh my rant...so sorry...perspective though, everything in perspective. I didn't order a glass of wine with dinnner the other night because I didn't want to get the nasty looks...Noone cares about the mom with 3 kids feeding their children McD's three night a week though~!!!!!

[bekkie]

I drank before we knew as well - we found out about 6 weeks in and I had drank the previous weekend - the doctor didn't even ask me if I had drank.. she asked me if I smoked.. or did any recreational drugs - both of which I said no to, and that was that.. I haven't drank anything alcoholic since.. when I asked her about it at my first pre-natal.. she told me that as long as I didn't consume any after I found out, there shouldn't be any issues - and all I can do is trust what she says - because if I start reading and worrying about something that has already been done... I won't do my baby any good at all - and I can't change the past.

[bekkie]

Originally Posted by azedazobollis

Take an egg, crack it open in a jar, pour vodka on it. Watch what it does to the egg. You can try this with coffee, it does nothing. Alcohol is the worst "drug" you can do while pregnant. It is the most damaging.

Alcohol is worse than heroine? cocaine? meth? really? ..... I have a hard time believing that

[~kitnkaboodle~]

Originally Posted by -bekkie-

Alcohol is worse than heroine? cocaine? meth? really? ..... I have a hard time believing that

Umm those are all teterogens just like alcohol. They are Just as bad.

My point in stating that FAS/FAE happens with minimal alcohol was not to scare the OP. I do however think if you read the book I mentioned you would have a different perspective on how common FAS/FAE actually is. This book was not written by a doctor, nurse, research person. It was written by a MOTHER of an adopted child with FAS and I can definately agree that it is more prevalant then most would think. Most times you don't even know that a child has FAS/FAE until school age and its commonly misdiagnosed as something else such as ADD, ODD, bipolar disorder etc, etc, etc.

I think that some women on this site need to be a lot more open to some things that are mainstream and not discredit them just because they are mainstream. You can't say you drank during pregnancy and your child is 100% fine because you don't know. FAS/FAE effects the brain and behaviour of a child and more often then not you can't tell by facial features.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by ~kitnkaboodle~

Umm those are all teterogens just like alcohol. They are Just as bad.

My point in stating that FAS/FAE happens with minimal alcohol was not to scare the OP. I do however think if you read the book I mentioned you would have a different perspective on how common FAS/FAE actually is. This book was not written by a doctor, nurse, research person. It was written by a MOTHER of an adopted child with FAS and I can definately agree that it is more prevalant then most would think. Most times you don't even know that a child has FAS/FAE until school age and its commonly misdiagnosed as something else such as ADD, ODD, bipolar disorder etc, etc, etc.

I think that some women on this site need to be a lot more open to some things that are mainstream and not discredit them just because they are mainstream. You can't say you drank during pregnancy and your child is 100% fine because you don't know. FAS/FAE effects the brain and behaviour of a child and more often then not you can't tell by facial features.

In all my years of being bipolar and researching, I have never heard of FAS or FAE being diagnosed as bipolar disorder. Not even close to the same group of symptoms.

[Sailor]

I really wouldn't worry about it. I'm from eastern Europe. In my family, not a single woman has stopped drinking for pregnancy. Nothing bad has ever happened. I actually don't know anyone in my country who avoids alcohol during pregnancy.

So, I really think you have nothing to worry about. Low amounts of alcohol have never been proven to harm the baby.