How to deal with really bad tantrums?

[sora]

My girl is 3yr old in two weeks. She has been a difficult baby since birth. Now it has become so bad that I do not know what to do. She has had terrible tantrums at least once a day for weeks now.

It always happens when she is tired or tired and hungry. When she is in a bad mood due to tiredness, a minor thing can tick her off big time. I am trying to make sure she has enough sleep but she refuses to take naps so she is always very tired in the afternoon. I usually put her sleep around 8 or 9 at night. She gets about 11 or 10 hours of sleep a day. She could use more sleep in the morning but whenver I try to sneak out of the bed in the morning, she awakes as well.

If I give in and let her do whatever she wants to do, she will have less tantrum. But I still need to discipline her. I don't fight her over minor things, but I make sure that she does not throw things out of anger, or spit, hit or kick someone, or make sure she brushes her teeth. But when I correct her behavior gently, she does again whatever she was doing just to tick me off. And she goes off and cries so loudly. For a while, I tried to discipline her while she was crying hard. But I realized that this made her crying worse. Once she starts to cry, she cannot control herself. She gets histyerical. So I thought I would calm her down first so I try to hug her, but pushes me, and kicks me. So I try to leave the room, she pulls me back to the room. One time I sat helplessly with my child's extremely loud crying for half an hour until my husband came home to save me. It was a hell. Today, we had another one this morning. This time, my husband put her in the room and covered her mouth. And she calmed down a bit. He thinks her hearing her own crying makes her crying worse. But then he tried to get out of the room, and of couse, she became histyerical again and tried to pull him back. But eventually he got out and she calmed down by herself. She walked out of the room herself and gave me a hug. But when I did the same thing, she came out of the room and followed me everywhere screaming and crying.

Also, another thing that drive us crazy is constant whining. She is a happy little kid when she is out in a park, or with her friends. She is miserable in our apartment. I take her out almost every morning but in the afternoon, I stay home and do dishes, and prepare for supper. That's when she is tired and bored. Maybe I can try staying at home in the morning and going to a drop-in in the afternoon to see if it makes a difference. I let her watch kids' movies before supper time for my sanity, but I am worried about this.

Please give me advice. Thanks so much.

[GuildJenn]

Sora, check out all the three year old posts in this forum. They're hard! It will not always be like this.

From what you've said I see a couple things that may help. One is that I don't think covering her mouth is necessarily a good idea; it's clear your husband's heart is in the right place, but that could be really scary.

Two, try acknowleding her feelings "you're very upset because..." or "you're frustrated because..." - this gives her a vocabulary besides the crying. And then I would honestly let her cry; it is okay for her to be sad. It may be that when you turn all your efforts towards making her stop she gets the message that you are frantic and unhappy, and she escalates it both for the response and because it seems appropriate (in her mind) to continue. With my son I usually say "I am so sorry you are sad/frustrated/upset; when you want a hug just call and I'll come in" and then I step away a bit and continue what I'm doing.

I'm sure you'll get more great thoughts but those are mine.

[beebalmmama]

That is a really tough stage. I remember with ds it started a couple of months before his 3rd birthday. Through trial and error I ended up doing what GuildJenn suggested, telling him I understood he was mad/sad/upset and I would be here to help/hug him when he was ready. Trying to hold or comfort, even comfort nurse him was useless and often made it worse. We tried to prevent the tired/hungry periods, but we just often had to let him have his tantrums and not try to stop him.

I would second the suggestion and not cover her mouth. Even if you mean well, I think that is something to stear clear of when a parents emotions get escalated too and could scare her.

It is a tough period but you'll make it.

We seem to be approaching a similar stage again with ds about to turn 4. Although the full out tantrums are fewer the disciplining is becoming another struggle.

[Thisbirdwillfly]

Since back in my days as a nanny, I've treated whining as a foreign language that I cannot understand. I get down on the child's level, lower my voice and say very gently, "I'm sorry. I can't understand you when you speak like that, can you try your regular voice?" I give a lot of sympathy and encouragement but whining gets nothing but a puzzled look and patience until their voice changes.

I know each child is different but I have had success with this method with my own kid, the kids I nanny and friends kids I'm taking care of. Typically it only takes one or two days.

As for the tantrums, I would not put my hand over a child's mouth. However, I would follow up on the idea by offering ear muffs that the child can put on themselves. My son needed me to be nearby but not interacting with him. Once his tantrum wound down, we would hug and talk about it.

This is a tough issue. I hope that this is a phase that passes quickly.

[LynnS6]

You might also want to consider "time-ins" -- that is a place where she can go when she's feeling overwhelmed and regroup. So, can you set up a small corner of the living room with comfortable pillows or something like that where she can go, have her fit, and get it out? Once my kids (especially ds) started to tantrum, really, there isn't much I could do until he wound down.

The other benefit to setting up a small place (even behind the couch would work) where she can go is that you aren't then held prisoner in her room listening to her scream. I would go about your ordinary things that you do and tell her that when she's ready, you'll be happy to rock with her and give her a hug. The calmer YOU can be, the more quickly she'll learn that big emotions aren't so scary.

BUT, I would also work really hard on getting your dd more sleep. The transition from nap to no nap sucks. She NEEDS to go to bed earlier. She also probably needs a quiet time during the early afternoon. I would not change your routine much. Going out in the morning is great, and it helps set her body clock. What I would do is go out in the morning, come back and have lunch. Then TOGETHER have quiet time. You can decide whether you want to do this with both of you in the same room or each of you in a different room. Reading books, listening to music, or playing with quiet toys would be OK during this time. You can put on a CD in her room, for example, and tell her that when the CD has played all the way through, then quiet time is over. Stress to her that YOU need a bit of downtime and that this is a time for both of you to get some energy back.

Then, I'd do chores/cleaning for an hour or so while asking her to entertain herself. After that, I'd take another afternoon trip to the park or a walk or something else to get you out of the house, especially if the weather is nice. Come home for a snack, and then if you want to let her watch TV while you get dinner started and a few more things like laundry started, I'd be OK with that. Personally, I think using TV during the witching hour (aka the hour before dinner) is a good way to save everyone's sanity.

I'd start putting her to bed 15 minutes earlier each day too, until she's ASLEEP by 7:30 or 8. Actually, what I'd probably really do is start the bedtime 15 minutes earlier for a few days, and when she's actually falling asleep 15 minutes earlier, then I'd start the routine 15 minutes earlier than that. It's what I do when we need to adjust our kids' bedtimes - either because of daylight savings or because of the start of school. You should read "Sleepless in America". It's a nice book and it really explains how sleep is so important to behavior.

[sora]

Thanks so much. I like the idea of "time in" and setting up a small place in the living room where she can go when she is really upset. But how would I make her go to the place I set up. She would probably refuses anything I suggest. If I would pick her up and put her in a particular spot, she would get hysterical too.

My dd also does not let me go about doing other things when she is throwing tantrums. If I try to leave the scene, she gets more upset and hold on to my legs. But then she won't let me pick her up or hug her.

My husband took her to the park in the evening after supper around 7pm and that was a bad idea. She had a tantrum at the park. My husband let her cry for 20min and she finally calmed down.

Would you agree that some TV/movie time before supper time is okay for this age? If so, how long would you allow your kids to watch TV? Most kids movies are an hour or hour and half long. It seems a bit too long. I'm Korean so I want my kid to learn Korean, so I find Korean movies are helpful for language development.

[lostinspain]

hard for everyone

My daughter, now 6, did many of the same things--and I don't think I handled it particularly well, but hindsight....

I often used movies (I live out of the country and like to put on movies in English), but finally realised that they worsened out situation. Many stand-offs we had were about additional movies. I also found the she got incredibly nervous and crabby after a movie. Now we've gone back to watching them this year, and she turns off the TV herself afterwards.

What did work:
Doing something off the wall, then playing with her. I know this is incredibly difficult when they've got you worn out, and I didn't do it enough myself. It ALWAYS works.

Letting her have a messy work table and anything she needed to make her projects. cutting, colouring, etc. are all very relaxing.

Going to bed really early, even if it means reading books for an hour before lights out.

What I've learned:
No matter how bad the things she's doing may appear, she will outgrow them. My daughter is a pretty easy going, sweet little girl, who now has the typical quirks of a 6-year-old. I know, without a doubt, that the "discipline" I gave her, and the anger it all generated, did not help in the process, and she learned absolutely nothing from it.

Take it easy on yourself.