What is the difference between Unconditional Parenting and Consensual Living?

[liliaceae]

Is there a difference?

[BellaClaudia]

I have no idea but it brings me the thought of those
mid life crisis type of older guys living together with half or less their age
girls and buying
the expensive jewelery ..

those guys.. are they parenting or consensual live with those
that could be their "daughters"...

:

but seriously .. I don't know.. I know there is a term or two
but have nooo idea.

[keilonwy]

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

I have no idea but it brings me the thought of those
mid life crisis type of older guys living together with half or less their age
girls and buying
the expensive jewelery ..

those guys.. are they parenting or consensual live with those
that could be their "daughters"...

:

Ouch! I'm literally half my husband's age, and I think that my wedding ring set was pretty expensive...

[PassionateWriter]

what a strage thread...

up led me to cl....not sure if there is a significant difference?

have you read up?

[liliaceae]

Well I watched the UP DVD, but haven't read the book yet. I've only read threads here about CL. It sounds like they're pretty much the same to me. I totally agree with UP, so I've been meaning to look into CL and was wondering if there's really any difference between them.

[kay4]

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

I have no idea but it brings me the thought of those
mid life crisis type of older guys living together with half or less their age
girls and buying
the expensive jewelery ..

those guys.. are they parenting or consensual live with those
that could be their "daughters"...

:

but seriously .. I don't know.. I know there is a term or two
but have nooo idea.

how does that at all relate to parenting a child?

[momma_unlimited]

Reagrding the post mentioned about men with much younger women- I *usually* hear the term "consensual" in reference to something that everyone else feels rather sketchy about yet the people involved have agreed to... perhaps that it what she means?

[1littlebit]

i think the OP might have been looking for actual answers to the question... there are a few here so hopefully people can add to those... i am not sure what the answer is and would like to know as well. usually it takes a few pages for a thread to get this OT

[LuxPerpetua]

UP= making sure your child feels loved unconditionally

CL= more about finding solutions that everyone can be happy with

I can see how they would be pretty much the same thing, only with different emphases. I view UP as more theoretical in nature, CL more practical and hands-on. We practice CL and are strong believers in UP.

[PassionateWriter]

have you seen this site? http://www.consensual-living.com/

[liliaceae]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

usually it takes a few pages for a thread to get this OT

I know right? Never seen a thread go OT with the first response!

Originally Posted by PassionateWriter

have you seen this site? http://www.consensual-living.com/

Thanks, I'll check it out!

[One_Girl]

There does seem to be a difference. Alfie Kohn seems to not be against rules and personal boundaries to the extent that consensual living people seem to be. Alfie Kohn also talks about having things like bedtime and telling your kids that it is a special occassion and not a habit when you are letting them go to bed late or do things that normally they don't get to do. Consensual living people seem to not have bedtimes or even rules against hitting.

[momma_unlimited]

So would you say consensual living is attempting a polite anarchy?

[holyhelianthus]

Loving this thread! (sorry to the mamas married to older men )

Originally Posted by One_Girl

There does seem to be a difference. Alfie Kohn seems to not be against rules and personal boundaries to the extent that consensual living people seem to be. Alfie Kohn also talks about having things like bedtime and telling your kids that it is a special occassion and not a habit when you are letting them go to bed late or do things that normally they don't get to do. Consensual living people seem to not have bedtimes or even rules against hitting.

Thanks for this! Interesting.

Originally Posted by momma_unlimited

So would you say consensual living is attempting a polite anarchy?

I like this!

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by momma_unlimited

So would you say consensual living is attempting a polite anarchy?

It does seem like polite anarchy in many ways. I am not sure if there are different types of CL though. UP used to seem like anarchy to me until I started reading it again recently and suspending my judgement. I was surprised that the CL articles and the yahoo chat discussions I read didn't seem to have a consensual aspect to them. It seemed like it was a parenting style that is built around giving permissive parents an excuse, and encouragement, not to have any expectations for their children rather than a parenting style built around consensus and living and interacting in ways that are respectful to children and parents.

[momma_unlimited]

I've often wondered, what is the difference between "unconditional love" and "unconditional parenting"? I wholeheartedly agree we should love our children without condition, but does that mean we place no conditions on on what behaviour constitutes loving interaction? To me, for instance, my marriage vows gave framework and depth to the way we express our love; but to other people (I'm thinking of polyamory), they appear to feel trapped and jailed by such "limits" to the expression of love. Likewise, to me, having boundaries and family hierarchy establishes a rich basis for familial love, but I hear those on the UP/CL side saying that the boundaries which improve on our loving expression, inhibit theirs....???

[LuxPerpetua]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Consensual living people seem to not have bedtimes or even rules against hitting.

I think the important factor in CL is considering the people involved. If the person being hit doesn't mind it, then there is no discord or reason to seek an alternate solution. Sometimes hitting is done is a way that is playful and fun, and sometime it isn't. In the latter case, a new solution should be sought. We do not have a strict bedtime for any of us but rather body rhythms that we monitor. Our lives are such that strict bedtimes are not necessary and being flexible works. The key is "consensus," which means a solution that works for everyone, not just the children.

I do, personally, believe UP works best when paired with CL, because I believe that CL does best in helping children feel respected.

[mamazee]

Alfie Kohn is an anti-behaviorist, so his premise is that behavioral techniques like punishment and rewards don't teach. At least they don't teach what we intend, and potentially teach something unintended - they could make children feel like they aren't unconditionally loved, like the parents' love is conditional upon behavior. So he talks about building a relationship, looking for the reason behind the behavior and dealing with that instead of punishing or rewarding for the behavior. Instead of "doing to", you "work with" to get things done. That is the focus of his book.

Consensual living is the belief that everyone involved should consent to everything they're a part of. And that the people involved need to find mutually agreeable solutions to everything that comes up. That isn't something that's part of UP. So I would say that CL is a step beyond UP, as it's anti-behaviorist, but also has the belief that everyone should reach agreement on every issue that comes up. It's just beyond the specific scope of UP, not contrary to it.

[PassionateWriter]

consensual living is not unparenting (as a friend usually says, unschooling is not unparenting).

CL is living and respecting everyone in teh family. there are no "rules" in teh sense of mainstream discipline; however, there are ways in which families treat each other, and hitting one another is never consensual in our family. Does it happen? Yes...but no more than any other family that uses time outs for hitting. Time outs don't stop hitting...time outs do things to children that we prefer our children not to experience. By living consensually with each other, we have basic ideas that we want out of life...we don't want to be hurt and we don't want to hurt each other. If it happens, we deal with it and move on...we don't view it as "permitted" or "forbidden"....its just not part of how we want to treat each other (and if a 3 yo does not understand this...or an 8 month old...we simply gently talk about it).

It is certainly not easier to live in a family where the smallest member has as much right as the oldest...but for our family, and many of our friends, it works very well and most people tell me our kids are very well "behaved"...we just don't tend to view our children in those terms.