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DS's Staph-Silver Hydrosol-no abx-DH outraged

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
4.5yo DS has staph infection on upper arm. Hot red. Noticed it yesterday. Scared. DH took DS to "minute clinic" at Walgreens. prescribed Cephalexin. Today I took DS to naturopath, who told me that is not appropriate at this stage and for a child. Prescribed silver hydrosol to be taken on a strict regiment. Along with some homeopathic immune booster called Immugen and high potency probiotics called HLC.

Now DH thinks that if he stops taking the Cephalexin that THAT would lead to MRSA, but I know that the silver will be killing the bugs.

Mostly I am writing to see if A) you have used silver hydrosol successfully
B) what is your opinion
C) words of encouragement!

The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. I know I am up against a wall with respect to DH, DM, and DF. But I want his body to be healthy!
post #2 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by OliveJewel View Post
Today I took DS to naturopath, who told me that is not appropriate at this stage and for a child. Prescribed silver hydrosol to be taken on a strict regiment.
what did the naturopath mean by this? the infection isn't bad enough to warrant using the atbx? what makes it less appropriate for a child?
post #3 of 35
Thread Starter 
He meant that it was a harsh compound with side effects that could potentially really harm him. And that we should try something slightly less harmful to the body that could also kill the bacteria. That is my understanding of it.
post #4 of 35
Your husband is correct in that you don't stop an antibiotic. You killed off some but not all the staph. You don't leave the strongest/less susceptable already guys to possibly reproduce by stopping the antibiotic you started.

I guess I'm saying that, depending on the infection, this silver and how he's taking it, and whether it was MRSA (did they culture ?) silver might have been a good first choice. But since you started the antibiotic you don't stop the antibiotic. I agree with your husband. I'm really surprised a naturopath recommended you stop the antibiotic after you'd started it.

Further, silver is also an antibiotic. It kills off the good bacteria as well as the bad. The plus in it is it might (depending on form and dosing) be stronger/less likely to have resistant bacteria. But it's still antibacterial. You're still wiping out the gut bacteria assuming you'd be giving the silver internally. So whatever you use you need a high quality probiotic three hours after every antibiotic (including silver) dose.
post #5 of 35
:
Do not discontinue the antibiotics now that you have started them. Also, I personally would be more concerned about a child taking a silver compound in high doses than Cephalexin, since the liver is not as large as an adults and not as developed yet.
post #6 of 35
Thread Starter 
Hmmm... if the silver is also an antibiotic, then how would stopping the cephalexin, but taking the silver create the superbugs? Like if you have an allergy to an antibiotic you don't finish it before you start a new one that you are not allergic to. Isn't this just replacing one antibiotic with another?
post #7 of 35
You killed the stuff not susceptable to the Cephalexin and left the ones less suspectible to that antibiotic. Further, you don't know how potent this particular silver is. Is he taking it internally? Not all silvers are as effective. Given the wanting to try it first it doesn't sound like it's a sure thing in the naturopaths mind.

I do not stop even natural antibitocs to sub others before 7 days. You're right about antibiotic allergies (and they do it for failures too). But I don't see switching to a silver solution after a day or so of ceaphalexin the same thing at all. Nor do I see it as a wise choice in this situation.

You're killing the good bacteria either way. You've already done it. I'd finish the prescription. I did an oral antibiotic with a strep skin infection with my kid. I did a natural antibiotic after. Sometimes it's good to get it done with a sort of sure thing and serious staph (beyond impetigo) is one of those situations for me. And it's never wise to unnecessarily stop and antibiotic natural or prescription after you're started.
post #8 of 35
Thread Starter 
Thanks. Yes he is taking it internally. It is 23 ppm. He didn't say, "Let's try this first." That was more my interpretation of it. Also, even the doc at Walgreens said, "I'm not sure if this will work, but we'll try it." So I think that with bacterial cellulitis you just have to formulate some kind of plan and keep re-evaluating it.

The concerns about stopping the abx are the most pressing. I will call the doc and bring up the concerns. Thanks for the input.
post #9 of 35
I would not do a systemic antibiotic for a topical infection.

I'm awed that folks believe that whatever broad spectrum antibiotic was prescribed is perceived to be the "correct" medication and panacea. We are unable to be all knowing, including MDs. And the belief that physicians are all knowing, is dangerous, imo.

Assuming wound has bacteria A, and if antibiotic for bacteria B is prescribed, wound is no better or worse for having not taken the antibiotic. Only if antibiotic B was indicated, is is useful. I would want a more complete diagnosis before taking an antibiotic which could be *unnecessary* and *harmful*.

I'd apply coconut oil and/or lavender essential oil, which both help kill staph, even MRSA.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...microbial.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16048923

Epsom salt soaks will help with healing also.

I have a few dead horses which I choose to beat. The MYTH and FEAR associated with discontinuing UNNECESSARY antibiotics, in the event of improperly prescribed (viral illness), or excessive diarrhea (antibiotic induced diarrhea-which could be dangerous C. difficile overgrowth), is one of them. There is no "rule" or "obligation" to continue an UNNECESSARY antibiotic "once started". That just *further* sensitizes bacteria to the antibiotic, INCREASING the risk of developing antibiotic-resistant bacteria in your child, or in your own gut.

I fully support consulting or notifying the prescribing physician to discuss follow-up, if antibiotics are started and need to be discontinued.


However, it is NOT "harmless", and is potentially dangerous, to continue the same antibiotics with no documented infection. I would not continue the antibiotic blindly due to some perceived "obligation".

The healthy body can recover from bacterial and viral illnesses, without antibiotics.


Unnecessary antibiotics ARE dangerous! Antibiotics damage the integrity of the microbial balance in the gut.
The healthy gut microflora is 70-80% of the immune system. Impaired immune systems are less effective at healing the body.

Question antibiotics.
Do not continue them blindly.

Please see the links about developing antibiotic resistance in post #141. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=141

Only way I'd consider antibiotics is for an infection with a culture and sensitivity. C&S do take time. Unfortunately, there ARE antibiotic-resistant bacteria, precisely BECAUSE of over-prescribing of unnecessary broad-spectrum antibiotics, by MDs. I would not treat with antibiotics as the first alternative, BECAUSE I don't want to be feeding antibiotics to bacteria unnecessarily and CAUSING the bacteria to become antibiotic-resistant, in my child or myself.

I'm not "against" antibiotics. I am an advocate of optimizing our immune system, preferably with natural microbial balance in the gut, nutrient dense whole foods (especially cultured and fermented probiotics), and natural exposure to common diseases, and avoidance of unnecessary chemicals including pharmaceuticals for those common illnesses. I believe we can avoid and treat most diseases with nutrition and holistic health practices. Unfortunately, most people are not informed and healthy enough to choose a non-mainstream alternative. There is a cascade of side-effects and consequences of our mainstream health choices, ime.

I do NOT AGREE that "once one starts antibiotics, that one must finish antibiotic" IN THE EVENT of them being *unnecessary in the first place*, like with an ear infection in a child over age 2, or after antibiotic-induced diarrhea has started, or for topical infections which could be addressed with holistic practices.


Pat
post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
I would not do a systemic antibiotic for a topical infection.

I'm awed that folks believe that whatever broad spectrum antibiotic was prescribed is perceived to be the "correct" medication and panacea. We are unable to be all knowing, including MDs. And the belief that physicians are all knowing, is dangerous, imo.

Assuming wound has bacteria A, and if antibiotic for bacteria B is prescribed, wound is no better or worse for having not taken the antibiotic. Only if antibiotic B was indicated, is is useful. I would want a more complete diagnosis before taking an antibiotic which could be *unnecessary* and *harmful*.

I'd apply coconut oil and/or lavender essential oil, which both help kill staph, even MRSA.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...microbial.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16048923

Epsom salt soaks will help with healing also.

I have a few dead horses which I choose to beat. The MYTH and FEAR associated with discontinuing UNNECESSARY antibiotics, in the event of improperly prescribed (viral illness), or excessive diarrhea (antibiotic induced diarrhea-which could be dangerous C. difficile overgrowth), is one of them. There is no "rule" or "obligation" to continue an UNNECESSARY antibiotic "once started". That just *further* sensitizes bacteria to the antibiotic, INCREASING the risk of developing antibiotic-resistant bacteria in your child, or in your own gut.

I fully support consulting or notifying the prescribing physician to discuss follow-up, if antibiotics are started and need to be discontinued.


However, it is NOT "harmless", and is potentially dangerous, to continue the same antibiotics with no documented infection. I would not continue the antibiotic blindly due to some perceived "obligation".

The healthy body can recover from bacterial and viral illnesses, without antibiotics.


Unnecessary antibiotics ARE dangerous! Antibiotics damage the integrity of the microbial balance in the gut.
The healthy gut microflora is 70-80% of the immune system. Impaired immune systems are less effective at healing the body.

Question antibiotics.
Do not continue them blindly.

Please see the links about developing antibiotic resistance in post #141. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=141

Only way I'd consider antibiotics is for an infection with a culture and sensitivity. C&S do take time. Unfortunately, there ARE antibiotic-resistant bacteria, precisely BECAUSE of over-prescribing of unnecessary broad-spectrum antibiotics, by MDs. I would not treat with antibiotics as the first alternative, BECAUSE I don't want to be feeding antibiotics to bacteria unnecessarily and CAUSING the bacteria to become antibiotic-resistant, in my child or myself.

I'm not "against" antibiotics. I am a advocate of optimizing our immune system, preferably with natural microbial balance in the gut, nutrient dense whole foods (especially cultured and fermented probiotics), and natural exposure to common diseases, and avoidance of unnecessary chemicals including pharmaceuticals for those common illnesses. I believe we can avoid and treat most diseases with nutrition and holistic health practices. Unfortunately, most people are not informed and healthy enough to choose a non-mainstream alternative. There is a cascade of side-effects and consequences of our mainstream health choices, ime.

I do NOT AGREE that "once one starts antibiotics, that one must finish antibiotic" IN THE EVENT of them being *unnecessary in the first place*, like with an ear infection in a child over age 2, or after antibiotic-induced diarrhea has started, or for topical infections which could be addressed with holistic practices.


Pat

Very well said Pat!
post #11 of 35
Thread Starter 
Pat, thanks so much for that thorough response! I called the doctor and he said that absolutely a person should not discontinue antibiotics unless they are replacing it with a suitable alternative. From what I've been reading it seems that ionic silver disrupts cell membrane function in bacteria and other single-celled organisms, denaturing enzyme function. It is a wider spectrum antibiotic than cephalexin, which would make it more effective.

Also, on the CDC's website there is an article that states that most MRSA infections will clear up with or without antibiotics in healthy people.

Off to the store...
post #12 of 35
I know a couple ppl who swear by manuka honey for mrsa.
Google "manuka honey" + staph
There's something in it that kills staph. A friend of ours got rid of staph using nothing but the manuka honey.
Good luck!
post #13 of 35
OP, remember that the silver you are giving him has the same impact on the body in terms of killing off good bacteria and leaving him susceptible to overgrowths of things like c. diff.

You need a good probiotic and give it three hours after each dose of silver.
I hope he responds quickly for you!
post #14 of 35
Thread Starter 
I have a high-dose probiotic that I will be giving to him within the next hour or two.

I also made a cabbage/slippery elm/neem poultice (blended the cabbage and added the powdered herbs) which I applied to his arm. Also doused it in lavender EO. The poultice helps some with cooling the intense itch. The lavender does too, and also the everpresent lavender scent is calming my deeply frazzled nerves.

I hope he responds quickly as well.
post #15 of 35
I agree with Pat here.

our experience --

We treated DS's staph-infected eczema aggressively, but topically only. It responded well. You don't necessarily need something internal. We would have done an internal only if it had not responded to the topical treatment.

(And hugs to you for your DH's reaction. Mine would have responded the same way, if not moreso.)
post #16 of 35
Thread Starter 
ASusan, thanks so much! What did you use?

When DH came home from work he asked me, "Do you REALLY believe that the silver will work?" I said, "Yes, I do." He said, "Okay."

And DM asked me, "IF the silver doesn't work, will you consider abx?"
"Of course," I said.

Sigh, sigh, sigh.

Also, part of the treatment is cutting out common allergy foods, like dairy, gluten, eggs, etc. I'm a Taurus so I love comfort foods. Guess I need to go over to the Nutrition boards to do some whining about how hard it will be to cut out those foods!
post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by OliveJewel View Post
ASusan, thanks so much! What did you use?

When DH came home from work he asked me, "Do you REALLY believe that the silver will work?" I said, "Yes, I do." He said, "Okay."
Err, we used OTC antibiotic cream : Polysporin or similar. And cleaning everything with hot water, bleach for the initial scrubbing of the tub. Using antibiotic hand wash (had to go out and buy it, as we don't generally use it), Dial soap on the adults so we didn't spread it. We may have used Dial on DS once or twice, too. We were very, very good about hygiene for a week or so.

DH would not have agreed to something 'natural.' I managed to get him to agree to treat it topically by getting the nurse practitioner to agree that that would be the best route. And that we would do an internal antibiotic if it didn't respond. We (I) also used "medieval mix" or "thieves oil" on the advice of the nurse practitioner. (see, if I had read about it online, it wouldn't have met with DH's approval. But, I could in all honesty say that the NP suggested it, and it was ok. DH is BIG believer in Western med. It did save his life on two occasions, but it is also one of the biggest rifts in our marriage right now.)
post #18 of 35
Thread Starter 
The redness and heat would just not back down all day, but then I put the cabbage/slippery elm/neem paste on and that really took it down several levels. I had only put the poultice on the upper part of the redness (where the centralized spot was) and when I removed the cloth after having left the poultice on for over an hour, the area where the poultice had been was visibly lighter in color and cooler than the lower part of the redness which had no poultice! I showed DH and DM who confirmed that it was cooler to the touch. About an hour after the poultice had been taken off the whole arm was cooler. Wow! I do not think that it was *just* the poultice that did the job, but the one-two punch of the various therapies. Of course, we still have to wait and see how it looks in the morning. Just to be safe I applied more poultice before he goes to bed. Before I applied the poultice I first coated the area with lavender EO, neat. I am kind of second guessing applying it neat though because I *did* notice a bit of "pinking up" after applying the EO. (Although the famous story of the guy that discovered lavender EO's healing properties says that he immersed his burned hand in a vat of the stuff and experienced immediate relief and visible healing.)

I will let you know how it looks in the morning, but so far I think we are on the road to recovery! I feel really good after seeing how he responded to the poultice.
post #19 of 35
We always treat DD's MRSA with bactroban (antibiotic) cream. None of the natural remedies we tried worked, including the honey.
post #20 of 35
I dislike pharmaceutical companies and I dislike the idea of taking antibiotics unnecessarily (so far DS has never had to have one) but personally, I'd be more afraid of the silver than cephalexin. Cephalosporin are probably one of the safer antibiotics. Why is silver more 'natural' or safer? Cephalosporin compounds were first isolated from sewers; how much more natural is that? What evidence exists that a cephalosporin is more risky than silver or vice versa? Who regulates the recommended silver formulations to ensure proper silver content? (There have been reports of inconsistent formulations.) What are the possible side effects of both options, particularly in children? These are the questions I would ask myself.

Also, this may be a little off-topic but I would be cautious with lavender, particularly on boys. I highly suspect it is an endocrine disruptor. Lavender may work in ways similar to the hormone oestrogen. It has been suspected of inducing breast growth in a few pre-pubescent boys whose mothers were using topical applications containing lavender oil. (Their breasts returned to normal after stopping the applications.) This is probably more of side-effect of long-term use but I'd still be cautious. There was lavender in my dishwasher soap while I suffered infertility. Was it a contributing factor? Who knows.
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