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Arsenic in rice milk. - Page 2

post #21 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn.mama View Post
If you read the studies, these questions are clearly answered.
Yes, its toxic, depending on your body weight and how much you consume in a day. 8 oz a day for a toddler is 4x too much.
No. 16oz a day is 4X too much for toddlers, so 8oz a day would only be 2X too much. I deduce from this that it would be OK to feed rice milk to a toddler in very small quantities- say, use it in cooking and feed that food to toddlers, or use 1 or 2oz in a bowl of cereal, but it shouldn't be used in large quantities as a milk replacement.

It also says that it's perfectly fine for anybody over the age of 4.5. I wish they'd been a little more specific about "safe levels" for kids of various ages and weights, but this study seemed to be focusing mostly on toddlers.

Since my youngest child is 7.5 years old, and we only use rice milk as a "treat" (no more than about a cup a day, and more likely an ounce or so in a cup of coffee or hot cocoa) I don't need to worry about these findings or change anything in my own kitchen.
post #22 of 41
One (of several) things that is frustrating is that this is really bad news for a subsection of the population. I mean yes, it looks like drinking as much rice milk as most people consume in cow's milk will significantly increase the total dietary intake of arsenic (especially inorganic, the more toxic form), moreso for little kids because proportionately they drink more milk than adults, but some people are avoiding dairy because they have mercury issues, and mercury and arsenic are excreted in basically the same way from our bodies. We've only used rice milk periodically for baking, but with our issues, I don't want to touch the stuff anymore, I already know we've got too much arsenic. Did I mention I'm frustrated? Nothing is simple.

The more complete report is pretty interesting, they have quite thorough tables at the end with all their measured data. Pretty cool (in a sick way).
post #23 of 41
Something occurred to me today as I ate my rice pasta at dinner:

The problem is with arsenic in rice milk because it's present in rice itself, not because it's added in processing. This means that there's probably just as much arsenic in other forms of rice, such as plain old cooked rice, rice pasta, infant rice cereal, etc. It seems that many peds are pressuring parents to feed rice cereal to previously EBF babies. Will they stop recomending rice cereal for infants in light of this new information? Or keep on pushing the processed mush with added iron while only demonizing the rice beverages?
post #24 of 41
Yes, yes, yes! This is it exactly! Its in the rice. An adult has to eat 4.5 cups combined rice products a day to hit toxicity. Much smaller amounts for little ones...
post #25 of 41
I think the other issue is that toddlers consume a lot more rice in rice milk form than you would otherwise take in... I know toddlers who have gone from formula to alternative milks that are drinking 24-32 oz of the stuff. No kid eats that much rice (I don't think!!).

However, there were days on my ED I might have come close to 4.5 cups of rice - just one more reason to consume all things in moderation, I guess.
post #26 of 41
(and remember to factor in other sources of arsenic... drinking water, non-organic poultry, seaweeds...)
post #27 of 41
So, the real concern is if you're giving it to your child as a drink. I wouldn't think that cooking with it (I'm thinking of something like pancakes) would be a big deal.

The thing I wonder about is people who eat rice as part of their traditional diet (Japan, China, etc.). I have Japanese friends who eat/ate rice at every meal at home and not small amounts. Wouldn't the whole population be arsenic-toxic? Of course, their babies aren't drinking rice milk, but from the toddler years on up, it's lots of rice every single day.
post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache View Post
The thing I wonder about is people who eat rice as part of their traditional diet (Japan, China, etc.). I have Japanese friends who eat/ate rice at every meal at home and not small amounts. Wouldn't the whole population be arsenic-toxic? Of course, their babies aren't drinking rice milk, but from the toddler years on up, it's lots of rice every single day.
I would guess that part of it is how well your diet supports clearing arsenic. Same with eating fish - how well does your body clear the mercury, whatever... So traditional diets with lots of rice, but also healthy fats, veggies, fermented foods, might handle the arsenic fine - but toddlers here fed the typical American diet, or toddlers struggling with gut issues already, might not fare as well?
post #29 of 41
Thread Starter 
From BonnieNova:
Quote:
Wugmama - turtle hill makes a great coconut milk product with no allergens!

I use it in everything!
I'm on it, thanks!!!


~Tracy
post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
I think the other issue is that toddlers consume a lot more rice in rice milk form than you would otherwise take in... I know toddlers who have gone from formula to alternative milks that are drinking 24-32 oz of the stuff. No kid eats that much rice (I don't think!!).
Apparently you never met my son! He could completely fill up on a bowlful of brown rice or rice pasta if I let him, even when he was a toddler.

I still don't feel that I know enough to act on this information. Nowhere do I see a chart of "this much rice is safe for a person who weighs this much". Nor do I have any information about the safety of alternative grains. If I replace brown rice with millet, am I avoiding toxins or just substituting one toxin for another?

I also know of real health risks to me if I consume corn, or if I'm exposed to wheat products at all. Are there any rice free, corn free, gluten free pastas out there? All the gluten-free pastas I've seen, except for the brown rice ones, contained some amount of corn. At this point, the rice pasta still seems like the safest choice for my family.
post #31 of 41
My son drank HUGE amts of this from about 1yo to 2 yo. He was very small and has severe oral aversions. He also has eczema so I thought the rice milk might be better tolerated than dairy milk. I googled arsenic and from what I understand it can cause lowered IQ's in children and various forms of cancer in adults exposed over the long term. My son does not have a lowered IQ, he's quite bright BUT he is quirky and probably has a "ghosting" of autism...he definitely has sensory issues. I'm guessing he's one of those who might have trouble ridding his body of heavy metals...but I'm not really sure what affect this might have on his health. Anyone have a link for what affects arsenic may have? Is it like lead, mercury?
post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Apparently you never met my son! He could completely fill up on a bowlful of brown rice or rice pasta if I let him, even when he was a toddler.

I still don't feel that I know enough to act on this information. Nowhere do I see a chart of "this much rice is safe for a person who weighs this much". Nor do I have any information about the safety of alternative grains. If I replace brown rice with millet, am I avoiding toxins or just substituting one toxin for another?

I also know of real health risks to me if I consume corn, or if I'm exposed to wheat products at all. Are there any rice free, corn free, gluten free pastas out there? All the gluten-free pastas I've seen, except for the brown rice ones, contained some amount of corn. At this point, the rice pasta still seems like the safest choice for my family.
FWIW, I'm not eliminating all rice. For things we consume infrequently, like rice pasta, that are hard to sub, I'll stick with what we've got. For rice milk, I could use other stuff easily, and I don't use that much anyway, so that's an easy change too. If we consumed a lot, I'd stop, we (me and the kids) can't handle that. As you said, there are probably some issues with the subs, so for low-exposure foods (and to not drive myself batty) I'm not going to go crazy. But if we ate a lot of rice with meals, I'd probably look more into other grains.

eta: fwiw, rice is the only grain I've stumbled across (haven't specifically researched, just generally reading for sources of exposure) that has a heavy metal issue. My reading was in the context of heavy metal toxicity issues and people eating gfcf, so alternative grains would be more likely to come up than in more mainstream articles. fwiw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aris99 View Post
My son drank HUGE amts of this from about 1yo to 2 yo. He was very small and has severe oral aversions. He also has eczema so I thought the rice milk might be better tolerated than dairy milk. I googled arsenic and from what I understand it can cause lowered IQ's in children and various forms of cancer in adults exposed over the long term. My son does not have a lowered IQ, he's quite bright BUT he is quirky and probably has a "ghosting" of autism...he definitely has sensory issues. I'm guessing he's one of those who might have trouble ridding his body of heavy metals...but I'm not really sure what affect this might have on his health. Anyone have a link for what affects arsenic may have? Is it like lead, mercury?
Search in this forum, someone asked about arsenic recently and I typed up the stuff from Andy Cutler's book (he's a good resource for oral chelation and the health effects of heavy metals).
post #33 of 41
Tracy, don't read it. I didn't. Don't worry about it.

Fear is more damaging than Rice Milk.


All is well.


Pat
post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
ugh i hate reading threads like this.

nothing is safe.

we are a suicidal species!
I so totally agree, we eat a lot of rice and DS2 eats tons. He went through a phase when that was all hwe would eat and now I read this
post #35 of 41
The arsenic was always in rice. Our species wasn't this ill all the way at the beginning of our rice-consuming ways. It is only recently. So, something we were doing for thousands of years must have helped us cope with the arsenic.
post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wugmama View Post
Yeah, maybe. I have friends in this forum whose judgment I trust. This news is very upsetting to me as we've already given up wheat and all forums of gluten, dairy, eggs, soy, corn, potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, peas and chocolate. And I don't want to face giving up rice milk. So I'm looking to my peeps here in this forum for a little help, support and possible insight rather than delve right in right now.

Thanks,
Tracy
Hey, I read the articles, and I am not upset AND my kids [a 4 yr old and a 2 yr old] will still get Rice Milk. Just not in high quantities. That also includes other rice products.

Because the articles aren't just talking about the Rice Milk but all rice products have certain levels of arsenic in them; so does lettuce, and my little 2 yr old loves lettuce!!

I just typed in Rice and Arsenic in the google search engine and one article on food safety states: "U.S. rice consumption averages about 12 grams daily; but it's calculated that people who eat more than 115 grams daily are the ones at risk!" I know my family does not consume that much rice or rice milk, this article says "the consumer shouldn’t be overly concerned!"

I know families that eat rice as a staple every day, sometimes twice or more per day, and their kids have grown up on this type of diet [they're now feeding this same diet to their children] and they've never had a sick day in their lives. Their elderly live into their 90s. Plus they're not fat...

Any rate, that is me venting, sorry!

Every once in a while I read about Xylitol being unsafe, unproven, toxic, etc.. But my mom researched it on the web and discovered it has been used for over 40 yrs in Finland with thousands of children; 16 or more yrs in South America with thousands more; has been used with hundreds of preschool and kindergarten kids here in the US, is being promoted by the US Military - no one has ever died from using it AND it remineralizes cavities, halts big ones, clears up gum disease, and I was told today that it also halts Candida - how much more proof, testing, safety-record does it have to have? We use it and horray it honestly does all the things it says it does [I don't know about the Candida; but the rest 'YES!"]

So I do not listen to anyone anymore except my mom, she says eliminate that which you know is harmful to you and your family, use with discretion the rest. Don't make life unbearable! That's the advice I live by!
post #37 of 41
Sorry, but isn't 115 grams equivalent to 4 ounces? Seems like a pretty low threshold to me. I for one am avoiding rice... not just because of this news story- but because it has almost no nutrients (and apparently has heavy metals). Since rice was our last "safe" grain, we're now grain free.
post #38 of 41
Sometimes I wish I didn't know about these things. I think it would be easier to live as one of accepting masses.

I'm married to a cajun and we eat rice at almost every meal. I thought I was making strides by getting him to accept brown rice. Oh well, this man will never give up rice. It's in his blood.
post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lilya View Post
The arsenic was always in rice. Our species wasn't this ill all the way at the beginning of our rice-consuming ways. It is only recently. So, something we were doing for thousands of years must have helped us cope with the arsenic.
I think some level of arsenic toxicity was probably in existence, it may vary depending on other sources of arsenic and other metals in the environment.

I don't have the link, but there are differences seen in Bangladeshis' arsenic status (where arsenic from water as well as food is a serious issue) based on their blood folate levels. Folate's important for methylation, and given how much leafy green stuff, and other good folate sources, many folks in the US (don't) eat, combined with too many other things to methylate in our current environment, I wouldn't be surprised if it's an issue now, when it hasn't been as much of one in the past.

Environmental allergies are related to methylation (I just got to demonstrate it on myself recently, ran out of B12 for a month or so, and gradually I noticed my runny nose was getting worse, and that stopped within 2 days of going out and buying a new B12 supp--B12 and folate work together with a few other things for methylation), and enviro allergies are on the rise in the US. I don't think that's being caused by rice consumption of course, but for people problem-solving other health issues, becoming aware of stuff like this and making changes if they seem appropriate to their situations is prudent.
post #40 of 41
Interesting, Tanya.
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