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Toddler screaming for over an hour in a store - Page 8

post #141 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainyday View Post
If the OP had posted about her neighbor leaving a child to scream for that same amount of time at bedtime, all of the people above who are bending over backwards to excuse the parents would have been up in arms about what that poor child was experiencing.
Not true. I wouldn't. I can think of a few instances where letting the child scream at bedtime is the best course of action.

I'm not into demonizing parents for their decisions when I'm not privy to their everyday experiences.
post #142 of 186
Quote:
You know, in a forum that typically has members who pride themselves on looking out for children's needs, I'm really surprised at how many people are willing to defend these parents who were leaving their child to scream for at least an hour while they shopped. Is this really the best situation for that child? Does anyone seriously think that child wouldn't have been happier if her parents would have just taken her home or to the park or somewhere other than where she was so clearly really, really, really unhappy and upset? This wasn't a short emergency shopping trip. This went on for more than an hour. And that child was left to scream miserably for more than an hour. And all our compassion is going to the parents? I'm really boggled by the reactions here.
But we just don't know the situation, do we? I think I am sympathetic because I have been in a similar situation several times myself where dd was SCREAMING, both dh and I were there, and no in fact for various reasons we could NOT "just leave" and one of us could NOT just take dd outside. There were specific reasons for this that a casual onlooker would not have known or necessarily understood. Now, granted, the situations have in some ways been different from what the OP described, but nevertheless I can EASILY imagine someone catching site of the scene and judging me and venting to their friends in much the same way. And I don't feel I would have deserved the judgment especially with no opportunity to defend my actions or explain what was REALLY going on that the person venting perhaps didn't know about. Who knows? I don't know what the parents were thinking. Maybe they really were awful parents and rude customers. Who knows? I don't. But I do know that I could easily find myself the subject of one of these threads some day.

And for that matter, it seems that many of the critics of these parents were not talking about the CHILD'S needs, they were talking about their own inconvenience as shoppers listening to a crying child. And I GET that, I do.

These situations are just crappy to EVERYONE involved: the child, the child's parents, and the other shoppers. But they do happen. And some children are more prone to it than others, for various reasons.

It sucks for everyone. It does. But suck happens. Time to move on.
post #143 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainyday View Post
You know, in a forum that typically has members who pride themselves on looking out for children's needs, I'm really surprised at how many people are willing to defend these parents who were leaving their child to scream for at least an hour while they shopped. Is this really the best situation for that child? Does anyone seriously think that child wouldn't have been happier if her parents would have just taken her home or to the park or somewhere other than where she was so clearly really, really, really unhappy and upset? This wasn't a short emergency shopping trip. This went on for more than an hour. And that child was left to scream miserably for more than an hour. And all our compassion is going to the parents? I'm really boggled by the reactions here.

If the OP had posted about her neighbor leaving a child to scream for that same amount of time at bedtime, all of the people above who are bending over backwards to excuse the parents would have been up in arms about what that poor child was experiencing. Yes, sometimes we have to get some shopping done in really crappy circumstances with a really unhappy child. Most of us have had to do that for one reason or another. But leaving that poor child to scream for at least an hour (and remember, we don't know how long they were really there - it may have been longer) really doesn't seem kind to anyone, most especially the child.

It is bedtime right now and my three year old is screaming in her room because dh had to leave and go back to work. I tried to go comfort her but she just kicked and hit at me. Since I will not allow her to kick and hit me I left her in her room. When she wants me to come cuddle her I will. She can even come out of her room and stay up if she wants to, but right now she just wants to lay in her bed and cry. So if anyone didn't know the whole situation, it would look like I am CIO, but I'm not and never have.
post #144 of 186
Quote:
If the OP had posted about her neighbor leaving a child to scream for that same amount of time at bedtime, all of the people above who are bending over backwards to excuse the parents would have been up in arms about what that poor child was experiencing.
Dunno. If I were certain it were some kind of ritual sleep training on the part of the parents, I guess I would condemn it. But how would I know?

And FWIW, my little angel can turn into a MONSTER when she's tired and has been known to SCREAM for a good half hour or so at bedtime. When she was an infant, it was NOT a rare occurance for her to scream for well OVER an hour straight at bedtime (as well as at other times). At one point, we DID have a concerned neighbor knock on the door because she had been crying so loudly for so long. I guess it's nice to have such concerned neighbors, but lemme tell you, it was MORTIFYING. And I assure you, we have NEVER CIO'ed. NEVER. And we have co-slept since the day dd was born and continue to do so to this day. But I can see how our neighbors through the years could EASILY get the wrong impression about the bedtime hysterics.
post #145 of 186
I got to the point where I was quoting so many posts that I just had to erase all the quotes and just write.

Basically. I was the mother whose kid didn't stop crying for the first year of his life. I had to jump up and down with him in the Moby for him to be even slightly comfortable. People looked at me like I was nuts and gave me lectures about how I was giving him brain damage.

I also often had DH in the store with me. But just because you SEE two parents, doesn't mean that there are two functional parents in the store. DH has certain mental issues of his own where he cannot take the stress of being responsible for DS. I was in the hospital when DS was four months and I had to leave AMA because DH called me to say he couldn't handle DS crying and "was about to throw him off the porch." I knew he wasn't really GOING to do it, but he was at that level of stress. I literally pulled the IV's out of my arms, half crawled to the hospital exit, and went home to relieve DH. We had no one else to pitch in and help.

Then we had DD, a super easy baby. BUT although she is a perfect little angel, she ONLY goes with Mommy. DH picks her up and she screams bloody murder, as if she was panicking because she'd never seen him before. DS started taking her cues and he also does this, and cries, "No, Mommy! Mommy help! HELP!! MOMMY!!! I WANT MY MOMMY!!!" - So is DH supposed to drag him out of the door while he's screaming that? How long would it take someone to play the hero in that situation?

And there was no way that I could send DH in to do the shopping. He gets social anxiety and basically I have to be there in a social situation with him. And he loses power of concentration - even if I give him a list of food he comes home with Spam and Cheetos. So yes, sometimes if you see the two of us, me with a baby on my back and DS screaming in the cart... it's easy to assume that DH can just take over and help out. He can't.

As many have said before... don't judge.

And as for the poster who said that since her grocery bills were $250 and up regularly... well good on you! Great that you get that sort of money to spend on food! I still don't think you get to dictate the "clientele" a grocery store can service. It's not like it's a private restaurant where the regulars get the best service. It's a grocery store. People need to shop to eat.
post #146 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
It is bedtime right now and my three year old is screaming in her room because dh had to leave and go back to work. I tried to go comfort her but she just kicked and hit at me. Since I will not allow her to kick and hit me I left her in her room. When she wants me to come cuddle her I will. She can even come out of her room and stay up if she wants to, but right now she just wants to lay in her bed and cry. So if anyone didn't know the whole situation, it would look like I am CIO, but I'm not and never have.
Yeah, same here. Tonight DS was screaming BLOODY FREAKING MURDER because I'm trying to push his bedtime forward to 7 pm instead of his usual 6 pm, because I'm tired of him waking up at 4 am. So as a result he is TIRED and CRANKY. He didn't want dinner, he didn't want to play, he didn't even want to watch TV (a special treat for him). He didn't want stories, he didn't want ANYTHING, he just lay there screaming.

And he screams like he's being mauled. He was literally foaming at the mouth, yes, FOAMING AT THE MOUTH while he was screaming "NO MOMMY! NO MOMMY! PLEASE! NO MOMMY! PLEASE NOOOOOO!" Of course all the windows are open because we have no AC and it's 95 plus degrees out here, and the lots are REALLY close together. I was tidying up the downstairs of toys and such because I was so sure CPS was going to be called on us.

Same thing last year right when we moved in, DS had to be literally held down for up to two, three, sometimes four hours while he screamed hysterically - otherwise he would not fall asleep. Period. I was always terrified that the cops would be knocking down our door.

Sigh.
post #147 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
Not true. I wouldn't. I can think of a few instances where letting the child scream at bedtime is the best course of action.

I'm not into demonizing parents for their decisions when I'm not privy to their everyday experiences.
Yeah, I would not judge someone if I had NO CLUE about the situation (like in this case)
post #148 of 186
An answer on why the other "able bodied" parent not taking child out? Perhaps one parent wasn't able to actually care for the child sufficiently? I'll get to that.

For 4 years of DS's life my husband was an over the road truck driver. During that time I went it alone parenting 3 kids, and DS is Autistic. Up to age 4 (still hard after that too) he was a terror in the store. As soon as we stepped inside the door he'd drop to the floor and scream. His body went rigid and there was no consoling him. When my husband was away, I HAD to shop by myself. I had people actually tell me to "shut him up". I couldn't. If I let him out of the cart he ran, and ran, and ran. It simply wasn't safe. He would bolt across the store, hide and it would take half the staff at the store to find him. If outside he'd run into traffic. No family around and no help.

There were times when DH was in town that I needed him to come to the store with me. We don't have a joint checking account (and never will) and he would have to purchase groceries or I needed his help with DS. Since he was only home 2-3 days during the month he didn't know what we needed as a family food-wise. (And when he was driving local he worked very long hours so he really wasn't there and other times I worked nights so the kids were asleep when he was home) I couldn't just give him a list. And he honestly had no clue on how to deal with DS and didn't have the patience for him. He's a great dad, but did what he had to do for work at the time to support us and missed out on a lot of the kids' early years. So I couldn't just ask him to take DS out of the store and I couldn't either. We'd just get done as quickly as possible so we could go home.

Obviously things have changed. We moved and DH changed jobs. Then in Feb DH became a SAHD and is great with the kids. Now I can lean on him for a ton more support. My ILs also moved near and DS has a PCA.

All this has taught me one thing, don't judge other parents. I try to be supportive as I can because I know that no matter how it looks, I don't know the whole story.

More recently I experienced this at a local store. On my way home from work I stopped to shop for dinner. I heard a toddler cry for a good 20 minutes as his dad tried to shop. Dad had his "I'm trying to make it look like nothing is wrong" face on. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, lol. People gave him very dirty looks and a couple comments. He was one isle over at checkout. Everyone just watched him as he struggled with 2 kids, one screaming. I finished checking out first so I put my stuff down and started bagging his groceries for him. After I was done, I gave him a smile and told him I'd been there and turned and walked out. No recognition needed. I was actually pretty disgusted that others just gawked and didn't offer him help. What kind of world is it that everyone is so judgmental and can't offer a bit of help or at least a smile and kind word?
post #149 of 186
i have never seen so much judgement directed at someone for being judgemental. i would wonder wth they was going on too... but the stupid newborn cry they have in the no talking clip in the movie theatre makes me hormonal.. a kid the same age as ds screaming like that would probably upset me too. am i going to judge? probably a little depending on the situation... but for my own peace of mind i wouldn't worry to much about it because i don't need the exta anxiety.

i really don't get the 845 different scenarios that may have been possible. the OP didn't say anyone whose kid cries for more then an hour is a terrible parent so what is with the defensiveness? i have seen parents go about their business while a kid screams... sometimes its pretty obvious they are tuning the kid out... will i judge them? maybe.. but so what? they will never know and i will forget about it ....

if the OP were 100% sure that these were able bodied parents and a child with no special needs who were not in the throes of family tradgedy would anyone feel differently? i mean really... this does happen....its probably way more plausable then any of the other scenarios
post #150 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine233 View Post
More recently I experienced this at a local store. On my way home from work I stopped to shop for dinner. I heard a toddler cry for a good 20 minutes as his dad tried to shop. Dad had his "I'm trying to make it look like nothing is wrong" face on. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, lol. People gave him very dirty looks and a couple comments. He was one isle over at checkout. Everyone just watched him as he struggled with 2 kids, one screaming. I finished checking out first so I put my stuff down and started bagging his groceries for him. After I was done, I gave him a smile and told him I'd been there and turned and walked out. No recognition needed. I was actually pretty disgusted that others just gawked and didn't offer him help. What kind of world is it that everyone is so judgmental and can't offer a bit of help or at least a smile and kind word?
That is such an awesome way to help without judgment!! Will you go shopping with me sometime?
post #151 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine233 View Post

All this has taught me one thing, don't judge other parents. I try to be supportive as I can because I know that no matter how it looks, I don't know the whole story.
I think this is what many people are trying to get across.

As a mother whose child on numerous occasions screamed for so long and so loudly (while I was right there doing my very best to try to help) that I was afraid that neighbors were going to call the police, I have learned not to judge others because I really don't know what's going on. I cannot know the whole story just by watching one episode in a store, or hearing the crying from next door.

Many of us who advocate for children and believe in looking out for the child's needs and focus on compassion for children, also focus on compassion for the parents of those children as well. Particularly when we don't know the whole story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine233 View Post
recently I experienced this at a local store. On my way home from work I stopped to shop for dinner. I heard a toddler cry for a good 20 minutes as his dad tried to shop. Dad had his "I'm trying to make it look like nothing is wrong" face on. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, lol. People gave him very dirty looks and a couple comments. He was one isle over at checkout. Everyone just watched him as he struggled with 2 kids, one screaming. I finished checking out first so I put my stuff down and started bagging his groceries for him. After I was done, I gave him a smile and told him I'd been there and turned and walked out. No recognition needed. I was actually pretty disgusted that others just gawked and didn't offer him help. What kind of world is it that everyone is so judgmental and can't offer a bit of help or at least a smile and kind word?
This is wonderful! How compassionate and kind. I have so appreciated the occasional kind word of support from other parents, those words mattered so much. I wish there were more people like you out there.
post #152 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
i have never seen so much judgement directed at someone for being judgemental. i would wonder wth they was going on too... but the stupid newborn cry they have in the no talking clip in the movie theatre makes me hormonal.. a kid the same age as ds screaming like that would probably upset me too. am i going to judge? probably a little depending on the situation... but for my own peace of mind i wouldn't worry to much about it because i don't need the exta anxiety.

i really don't get the 845 different scenarios that may have been possible. the OP didn't say anyone whose kid cries for more then an hour is a terrible parent so what is with the defensiveness? i have seen parents go about their business while a kid screams... sometimes its pretty obvious they are tuning the kid out... will i judge them? maybe.. but so what? they will never know and i will forget about it ....

if the OP were 100% sure that these were able bodied parents and a child with no special needs who were not in the throes of family tradgedy would anyone feel differently? i mean really... this does happen....its probably way more plausable then any of the other scenarios
I think there is a certain amount of defensivness from those of us who have been in that situation, and despite our every effort, our kid is still "that kid" and we are still "that parent." Trust me, we know that we are being looked at and judged. We've seen the looks, we've gotten the comments, and we've read the threads.

And for us, no, it isn't more plausable that it's just a bad parent. It's more plausable that there is something going on that a stranger is aware of. Because, after all, we don't know the situation, so why assume the worse? Why is assuming that the parents are doing their best any worse than assuming they aren't? I guess it's a glass half full/half empty kind of question.

I don't think the OP was being judgemental. I think she was genuinely asking
Quote:
What, if anything, would you all have done in this situation?
She's been given different reasons why the parents might not have been neglectful of their child's needs, and she's been given ideas of what she could or shouldn't do with regards to it. She asked a question and was given an answer.
post #153 of 186
I wonder what exactly gives anyone the impression that they have the right to shop without being disturbed. Whatever the definition of disturbed is- in public places I don't feel we have that right. It just makes me incredibly sad. I have not had near the difficult children that some posters have but I well remember being on the verge of insanity from sleep deprivation w/ my first. I remember being on the verge of sanity w/ my second who arrived 2 days after my house burned down. We were doing our best to survive and had someone had the audacity to throw a tantrum and go to the manager of a store because my children were disturbing them it would have been the last straw. Why judge these people, huh? What good does it do? Yes, it was an uncomfortable experience for all involved I am sure but what positive thing comes from stressing over it. What positive does it bring for anyone to sit there and talk about what they would have done and what horrible parents they must be.
post #154 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine233 View Post
More recently I experienced this at a local store. On my way home from work I stopped to shop for dinner. I heard a toddler cry for a good 20 minutes as his dad tried to shop. Dad had his "I'm trying to make it look like nothing is wrong" face on. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, lol. People gave him very dirty looks and a couple comments. He was one isle over at checkout. Everyone just watched him as he struggled with 2 kids, one screaming. I finished checking out first so I put my stuff down and started bagging his groceries for him. After I was done, I gave him a smile and told him I'd been there and turned and walked out. No recognition needed. I was actually pretty disgusted that others just gawked and didn't offer him help. What kind of world is it that everyone is so judgmental and can't offer a bit of help or at least a smile and kind word?
The kind of world where people have done this and it hasn't turned out well? We were in the grocery store awhile back with a momma trying to herd her 4 children through the shopping trip alone, 1 babe in the top of the buggy, 2 toddlers, one slightly older child. They were all in various stages of melting down and Mom looked like she was about to melt down herself. People were staring and shaking their heads. At the checkout I smiled at her and offered her to take my place at the front of the line. My baggy was packed, she would have been waiting behind me forever. She took it, but rolled her eyes and kind of huffed at me, then I got to wait behind her while one of the children made very rude remarks to the mom about my tattoos and clothes. She then turned around and rolled her eyes at me again as she left. She obviously didn't want my kindness or my help, maybe not every stranger in the store does.
post #155 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mama View Post
I wonder what exactly gives anyone the impression that they have the right to shop without being disturbed. Whatever the definition of disturbed is- in public places I don't feel we have that right. It just makes me incredibly sad.
So would it be okay if I, or any other adult, walked around a grocery store screaming nonstop for an hour? Do I have the right to do that, if no one else has the right to shop without being disturbed? Shopping certainly makes me want to scream sometimes.
post #156 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs joe bubby View Post
So would it be okay if I, or any other adult, walked around a grocery store screaming nonstop for an hour? Do I have the right to do that, if no one else has the right to shop without being disturbed? Shopping certainly makes me want to scream sometimes.
Seriously? You have to question the difference between an adult and a baby?

And if you had a disability in which you couldn't help but scream, yes, you would have the "right" to shop while screaming.
post #157 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs joe bubby View Post
The kind of world where people have done this and it hasn't turned out well? We were in the grocery store awhile back with a momma trying to herd her 4 children through the shopping trip alone, 1 babe in the top of the buggy, 2 toddlers, one slightly older child. They were all in various stages of melting down and Mom looked like she was about to melt down herself. People were staring and shaking their heads. At the checkout I smiled at her and offered her to take my place at the front of the line. My baggy was packed, she would have been waiting behind me forever. She took it, but rolled her eyes and kind of huffed at me, then I got to wait behind her while one of the children made very rude remarks to the mom about my tattoos and clothes. She then turned around and rolled her eyes at me again as she left. She obviously didn't want my kindness or my help, maybe not every stranger in the store does.
That's sad. You did the right thing, though, and if the situation cropped up again I'd hope you'd do the same thing. Sometimes kindness is not taken well, but that's not your fault. Just keep doing the right thing.
post #158 of 186
[QUOTE=QueenOfTheMeadow;14067736]I think there is a certain amount of defensivness from those of us who have been in that situation, and despite our every effort, our kid is still "that kid" and we are still "that parent." Trust me, we know that we are being looked at and judged. We've seen the looks, we've gotten the comments, and we've read the threads.

And for us, no, it isn't more plausable that it's just a bad parent. It's more plausable that there is something going on that a stranger is aware of. Because, after all, we don't know the situation, so why assume the worse? Why is assuming that the parents are doing their best any worse than assuming they aren't? I guess it's a glass half full/half empty kind of question./QUOTE]


i understand feeling defensive about that... i think every parent feels judged at some point or another and i imagine it is more often when you have a child with special needs. I don't think the only alternative to that is bad parents though. for all intents and purposes i am completely able bodied and as far as i know ds has no special needs but i have gone grocery shopping while he cried the whole time... and we have had some memorable trips to target that were just plain painful. i don't think its makes me or dp bad parents ... i think we had stuff we needed to do, we were trying our best to get the heck out of three as fast as we could, and ds was having none of it.

people judge us.. but so what? people judge all kinds of crap. i had a woman tell me the other day that she was so surprised DS was so happy and i am so young. wtf? who says that? once at the airport a woman offered to hold him for me b/c he wouldn't stop crying.. and then when i said no thank you she kept trying to do it anyway. its rude that people shoot nasty looks at stuff... thats just judging for judgments sake. i think this might be one of those situations where it doesn't hurt to be helpful but it doesn't help to be hurtful. i would rather someone offer help, smile, try to engage ds, etc than stare at me like they are superior. that just pisses me off but if a kid has special needs i don't know if it would be helpful to have someone try and help. i guess it would depend on the kid.

the one thing that stuck out to me from the op was that the mom seemed frazzled.. i agree with the PP who said that no one is more miserable that a child is screaming in a store then the childs parents. 99% of the time when i have seem this kind of thing the parents look like they are about ready to crack. ds screamed for an hour while i was picking up a prescription.. they told me it would take 20 minutes... they were wrong. and i tried to let him out of the stroller but it he then proceeded to try and pull everything off of the shelves... so i put him back in the stroller... we walked and walked and walked up and down the stupid aisles... it was ridiculous.

i guess i don't think its totally unreasonable to have a screaming kid... yeah i would want to take him out of the store but heck if ds is screaming like that it might not even occur to me... sometimes when i get frazzled like that all logical thoughts seems to escape me.
post #159 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleanani View Post
Seriously? You have to question the difference between an adult and a baby?

And if you had a disability in which you couldn't help but scream, yes, you would have the "right" to shop while screaming.
Well, not questioning the difference between an adult and a baby. What I was getting at is I DO have a disability that would be seriously affected by listening an hour of prolonged screaming in an enclosed place. I would not be able to complete my shopping that day and get food for my family. Just questioning why the adults with the screaming person have rights but according to some posters, I do not. That is very confusing to me.
post #160 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs joe bubby View Post
The kind of world where people have done this and it hasn't turned out well? We were in the grocery store awhile back with a momma trying to herd her 4 children through the shopping trip alone, 1 babe in the top of the buggy, 2 toddlers, one slightly older child. They were all in various stages of melting down and Mom looked like she was about to melt down herself. People were staring and shaking their heads. At the checkout I smiled at her and offered her to take my place at the front of the line. My baggy was packed, she would have been waiting behind me forever. She took it, but rolled her eyes and kind of huffed at me, then I got to wait behind her while one of the children made very rude remarks to the mom about my tattoos and clothes. She then turned around and rolled her eyes at me again as she left. She obviously didn't want my kindness or my help, maybe not every stranger in the store does.
An act of kindness isn't about getting recognition or the other person appreciating it. Its about you doing what you know is right and feeling better for offering the help. Sometimes people are appreciative, sometimes they are indifferent and sometimes they are so frazzled they don't know how to respond to your acts appropriately. It could be that she thought you were only doing it to get her out of there faster so you didn't have to listen to her kids. Or she thought you were judging her in some way. There are many reasons why you got a bad reaction. But you know you did the right thing in trying to be nice, and that's all that matters. Later she may have looked back, less frazzled, and felt bad for the looks she gave you and rethought her own actions. You don't know that.
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