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Toddler screaming for over an hour in a store - Page 4

post #61 of 186
I agree that continuing to shop that late in the evening with an obviously upset child is absurd. All of us have had a child experience a melt down in public. But, few of us wouldn't have removed the child from the situation, if needed.

One or both of the parents could have/should have left the store for the child's sake. Nevermind that the child's behavior was so obviously upsetting to other people. If the child does have some sort of disorder, the parents should be more considerate of their child's needs. My brother had special needs and my parents made sure to take extra care in planning our outings so as to best accomodate his limitations.

IMHO, these parent's did show a lack of concern for not only their child but for the other shoppers. None of us are an island unto ourselves and we should think about other people.
post #62 of 186
Maybe they are shopping later BECAUSE their child has a hard time dealing with public places. What you (general you) consider "late at night" might very well be the middle of their day because it is a 24 hour world out there now. It is absurd to assume that they are up "late" just because you are. When dh isn't working a 9-5 job, we still choose to shop late at night when we have the opportunity because it is so much easier on both my son and my husband.

I think it is silly to assume that we have the luxury of just saying "well, we will try again later". Maybe that was the best behavior they could expect under the circumstances and having food in the house was getting to a critical level.

And, maybe they are meeting their child's needs in the long run by desensitizing them to public places.
post #63 of 186
I also think everyone is leaping to the assumption that these were the child's parents and/or that one of the them was capable of taking the child outside. What if the "dad" were disabled such that he couldn't deal with crying child outside and also couldn't shop unaccompanied? Or maybe the woman here was under the extreme control of the guy and he wasn't willing to leave with child because she would run away... Or she wasn't willing to have him alone with child because he would kidnap the kid... OK, yes, I realize these are extremely unlikely scenarios. Point being, its impossible for us to tell exactly what the situation was. Maybe they were just clueless parents. But maybe not. And I, for one, would rather assume that there was a good explanation for what they were doing and that they were doing the best they could. Its really a much nicer world when you assume the best of people.
post #64 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthie's momma View Post
I agree that continuing to shop that late in the evening with an obviously upset child is absurd. All of us have had a child experience a melt down in public. But, few of us wouldn't have removed the child from the situation, if needed.

One or both of the parents could have/should have left the store for the child's sake. Nevermind that the child's behavior was so obviously upsetting to other people. If the child does have some sort of disorder, the parents should be more considerate of their child's needs. My brother had special needs and my parents made sure to take extra care in planning our outings so as to best accomodate his limitations.

IMHO, these parent's did show a lack of concern for not only their child but for the other shoppers. None of us are an island unto ourselves and we should think about other people.
The fact of the matter is no matter how much you may plan, things do go wrong, and there are often extentuating circumstances involved. The OP said the parents seemed embarrassed, so I'd assume that there was a reason that they couldn't leave at the moment.

I've had that want to crawl into a hole feeling when one of my children has behaved in a not so socially acceptable way, and trust me, if I could have, I would have.
post #65 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicky2 View Post
Yes. I have 4 kids, from 20 all the way down to 2. I know there was something wrong--I know those cries. It just kept escalating and the poor child was so tired from the experience. It appeared to everyone around (because they all said so!) that he had just completely given up that his parents were there for him. Like that tiny baby who is left to CIO alone and learns not to trust that his parents will be there.

And I've heard the newborn thing, too. I can't stand it. It makes me hurt in my heart. One time my dh and I were Christmas shopping at Target. This woman was there w/her baby in a bucket/carseat and it was a TINY baby. My dh had our youngest in a sling, and he kept pacing in front of this lady, pointing to his sling and making cradling/pick up your baby motions w/his arms. She.just.kept.looking.at.a.stupid.watch while her baby cried pitifully all by herself.
I haven't read the whole thread b/c I don't think I can--I don't even like to *read* about infants/toddlers uncontrollably crying while their parents willfully ignore them. I just wanted to respond to say to your husband. In those situations I get horribly upset but never say anything. This thread has really made me think. I usually think I"m being too thin skinned, but now I see that I'm by far the only one.It really is rude to subject other shoppers to it, esp in the OP's situation where there was another parent.

**And of course I realize that sometimes there's no way out, but in the OP and other situations mentioned, the child should have either been taken out, comforted or both.
post #66 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
We tried taking her to the side, but it just made her scream worse. The only way to get her to stop crying would be to a) leave, which we couldn't do or b) buy her whatever she wanted, which we can't afford and even if we could we wouldn't do it.

It really is not just that simple.
I know I PM'd you but I just wanted to clarify for everyone else I wasn't meaning it's that simple to help a toddler calm down and stop crying. Oh how I wish! Sorry for the confusion.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Some situations are just crap and you're damned if you do damned if you don't- both "you" meaning the parent and "you" meaning the bystander.
post #67 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbymom05 View Post
I haven't read the whole thread b/c I don't think I can--I don't even like to *read* about infants/toddlers uncontrollably crying while their parents willfully ignore them. I just wanted to respond to say to your husband. In those situations I get horribly upset but never say anything. This thread has really made me think. I usually think I"m being too thin skinned, but now I see that I'm by far the only one.It really is rude to subject other shoppers to it, esp in the OP's situation where there was another parent.

**And of course I realize that sometimes there's no way out, but in the OP and other situations mentioned, the child should have either been taken out, comforted or both.
But we don't really know the situation in the OP. We don't know that the parents could just leave, maybe they don't have a car and were waiting on someone to pick them up. We don't know that it would have made things better to take the child out, with my dd1 it would only make her cry harder. We don't know that they didn't try to comfort him, maybe they did and it only made the situation worse, so they just let him be. We don't know that these parents weren't doing the best they could.

In regards to crying infants, dd1 was a preemie who only weighed 10 lbs at a year old. She also cried all the time and had sensory issues that caused her to freak out if we held her close. So I got plenty of evil looks and "advice" on how to care for my newborn, when in reality she was close to a year old and picking her up would have only made her scream more. If someone had walked in front of me with their happy baby in a sling pointing and trying to get me to pick up my baby, I think I would have just broken down cried right then and there. That first year was depressing enough without strangers trying to making me feel like an even worse mother.
post #68 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie View Post
DD's friend (4 years old) with sensory issues skinned his knee at our house. He literally sobbed for 2 straight hours. There was nothing that could comfort him (and he had 4 adults trying). I'm sure the neighbors thought "someone should pick that child up!" or "what's wrong with those parents! Why don't they DO SOMETHING!!!"

Who knows what the child's history is, and whether the parents were handling it to the best of their abilities or were neglectful. I only know that I, as a stranger, have way less information than they do, and compassion for the whole family is rarely the wrong response.
I have 2 kids with sensory issues and I can relate. Although if both dh and I were somewhere and that happened one of us would remove the child from the store althought that would entail literally dragging them out kicking and screaming. It can be quite intimidating trying to drag a 2 year old out of a store while he is screaming NO, NO, NO, NO over and over again inconsolably. When Tea was younger if we didn't just learn to tune her out and keep going, we'd never have gone anywhere or gotten anything done. There were many times we did sit down at a table and order food only to have a total meltdown for completely unknown reasons prompt us to just convert our order to go and get out of there. I learned then that sometimes things are not as they seem and I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to misbehaving children.
post #69 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisis View Post
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? My kid will scream for an hour, no problem. Doesn't matter what I do, he screams. It's extremely loud and I'm sure it bothers people in the store. It bothers me. But if I ever had someone come up to me and tell me to take my kid out of the store...



I think that is extremely rude.
I don't think it's any ruder than subjecting people to the screaming for an hour! Kincaid (who is autistic and has severe sensory issues, so we've definitely dealt with that) screamed for the first 6 months of his life, so I just didn't take him anywhere for 6 months. After that he'd get completely upset over hearing another baby cry and would be inconsolable...in those situations, I just left and did my shopping later when that occurred. It's just not ok to make other shoppers put up with your kids screaming for that long!
post #70 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstar View Post
Could the child have been teething? If so, it's possible they'd been crying all day, sometimes even with medication.

As for being out late, you really never know. There was a time when my parents worked three jobs each to keep the family afloat. In a situation where they're working multiple jobs like that, 8:30 pm might have been their only chance to go shopping.

For that matter, perhaps the child was special needs. I seem to recall reading articles about autistic children, that would scream in public.
Really, none of this matters. Who cares WHY the child was screaming (I'm sure there was a reason, and no one else in the store could control that reason). What matters is that the parents allowed it to continue.

I'm not surprised at the attitude of a lot of people in this thread. I run into people like this a lot and I can't get over what I consider to be a huge sense of entitlement many people have. If there are 2 of you, there is NO REASON the entire store should be subjected to your kid screaming on and on. I've experienced this in restaurants even! How self-absorbed to think you have the right to ruin other people's shopping/dining/whatever. I am the type of person who will actually get a throbbing headache from LOUD SCREAMING, and you bet I would have sweetly suggested they get their kid out of there.
post #71 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommahhh View Post
Really, none of this matters. Who cares WHY the child was screaming (I'm sure there was a reason, and no one else in the store could control that reason). What matters is that the parents allowed it to continue.

I'm not surprised at the attitude of a lot of people in this thread. I run into people like this a lot and I can't get over what I consider to be a huge sense of entitlement many people have. If there are 2 of you, there is NO REASON the entire store should be subjected to your kid screaming on and on. I've experienced this in restaurants even! How self-absorbed to think you have the right to ruin other people's shopping/dining/whatever. I am the type of person who will actually get a throbbing headache from LOUD SCREAMING, and you bet I would have sweetly suggested they get their kid out of there.
I get the entitlement issue (I have seen it as I mouthed "pick baby up, pick baby up, pick baby up" when baby screamed and then stopped as mom finally picked baby up). However, YOU don't KNOW.

People have laid out plausible scenarios. While maybe mom and dad were dorks about it, the reality is they could have been in a situation that we can't begin to understand. Why not give people the benefit of the doubt? Does it hurt to do it? I know for me, it makes me a more peaceful person. It makes it easier to hear, to know that MOM KNOWS BEST.

She isn't devoid of feeling or compassion. I can't trump her with my big fat maternal feelings card because we all got the same one once babe was born. I can't trump her with my "I always have well behaved children or we leave!" because I have flown on airplanes, needed groceries while seriously ill, survived through warfare of parenting. I did it and survived because I had compassion and not rolling eyes. I give back that compassion.
post #72 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
I don't think it's any ruder than subjecting people to the screaming for an hour! Kincaid (who is autistic and has severe sensory issues, so we've definitely dealt with that) screamed for the first 6 months of his life, so I just didn't take him anywhere for 6 months. After that he'd get completely upset over hearing another baby cry and would be inconsolable...in those situations, I just left and did my shopping later when that occurred. It's just not ok to make other shoppers put up with your kids screaming for that long!
Wow, if I wasn't able to take Toby anywhere for 6 months, especially the first 6, I would have literally killed myself. You are a much more patient woman than I!

As I've stated in this thread before, I don't agree with how the parents in question handled the situation, but I don't think it's right for someone to walk up to another person and suggest that they parent differently. If I had been in the store with this screaming baby I would have felt sorry for the parents, not walk up to them and demand they leave the store.

What's really accomplished by criticizing another person's parenting, especially when only a single situation has been witnessed? Honestly, I don't know that threads like these really help anyone.
post #73 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
I don't think it's any ruder than subjecting people to the screaming for an hour! Kincaid (who is autistic and has severe sensory issues, so we've definitely dealt with that) screamed for the first 6 months of his life, so I just didn't take him anywhere for 6 months. After that he'd get completely upset over hearing another baby cry and would be inconsolable...in those situations, I just left and did my shopping later when that occurred. It's just not ok to make other shoppers put up with your kids screaming for that long!
Well, count yourself very lucky that you have the support so that you didn't have to leave the house for the first six months. I had a child that screamed for the first year and it was impossible for me to keep her at home all the time for a year. We live in the country, a good drive from the store, so there was no leaving and coming back another time, we couldn't afford the gas. Crying children used to annnoy me, but now I just have compassion for both the parents and the child.
post #74 of 186
I am not meaning to criticize anyone's parenting. I am criticizing their lack of respect for other people around them. This has happened many times in my life so it is definitely a pet peeve. By the way, my kiddo has not always been an angel in public either. But I can't imagine thinking I had the right to subject other people to her tantrum (it's bad enough I have to be subjected to them )

I know there are times (such as on an airplane or when you NEED a prescription and the child is howling) when there is no choice. Then I have plenty of compassion. But you can pretty much tell when the parents are just of the attitude of "well, I want to be here and too bad if my kid is screaming". That is what makes me crazy. That sense of entitlement that their personal wants are more important than all the other people in the environment.

Once I took a good friend who had recently had another miscarriage to a cute little coffee shop to talk. Another woman sat there drinking a coffee and calmly eating a bagel while her 1 year old screamed bloody murder. About 10 minutes worth of screaming. It was agitating my friend, which in turn was agitating me. We ended up having to leave, which is NOT fair. Yes, she definitely should have left....her child was disruptive. I can't think of one single reason why she couldn't have left. Even if she were meeting someone there, she could have stepped out of the shop. And if the child would become more upset by leaving, really that is her problem, not the rest of the people in the shop.

Hopefully what this thread will accomplish is that someone out there who lets their child scream in public on and on will read it and realize that it might be affecting other people around them.
post #75 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthie's momma View Post
I agree that continuing to shop that late in the evening with an obviously upset child is absurd. All of us have had a child experience a melt down in public. But, few of us wouldn't have removed the child from the situation, if needed.

One or both of the parents could have/should have left the store for the child's sake. Nevermind that the child's behavior was so obviously upsetting to other people. If the child does have some sort of disorder, the parents should be more considerate of their child's needs. My brother had special needs and my parents made sure to take extra care in planning our outings so as to best accomodate his limitations.

IMHO, these parent's did show a lack of concern for not only their child but for the other shoppers. None of us are an island unto ourselves and we should think about other people.

I agree so much.

I have extreme noise sensitives as well as asperger's myself. If I were the OP in this scenario, while I wouldn't have approached the parents in any way, I would have been one of those awful people who would have had to leave my cart and take my business elsewhere. I simply wouldn't have been able to tolerate the screaming without having a serious, meltdown that might have caused me to not be able to leave my house again for awhile. It wouldn't have been as simple as that I could have just run into the next store and completed my shopping. : I'm reading many stories that were come up with up about how these were possibly not the parents and were both disabled and could not carry the child, someone had just died, all while the disabled child is teething and has the flu, etc etc etc. But no one seems to come up with anything about how much others in the store could be affected by listening to the poor kid screaming in the store for an hour. No matter the child's situation, please think of others and perhaps that there is more to their story too. Maybe there is more going on than them just being rude or "disgusting".
post #76 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Z View Post
I have been that parent, and I can tell you that nasty looks don't do a dang thing to help in the situation. If you are frustrated listening to a child cry/meltdown/tantrum, just be thankful you don't have to deal with it every day, all the time. Not all disabilities are visible and assuming the child is just ill behaved and the parents suck leads to a lot of cruetly from the self rightous and snobby parents who have no idea what our lives are like.

I have gone shopping with dh with my son screaming, and my dh has gotten frustrated because it is hard to think with the screams, I have had to just keep going because it wasn't like going home and doing it another time would have been any more successful, nor would taking him outside (although that would been much more dangerous), and we needed to get the shopping done. Talking to him would simply escalate it, and somebody would have been injured if we attempted to pick him up. My husband was there to help because there was a chance he would begin to injure himself or escape the cart and tear everything off the shelves. Such is life some days.

Your "right" to shop in quiet does not outweigh the actual, true rights of people who are disabled (and their caregivers) to participate in life and shop without being criticized, degraded and hassled. For those of you who would actually have the audacity to complain to the store and "take your business elsewhere", you are acting like the people who refused to eat someplace because they "allowed" a black person to eat there. It is truly disgusting.
I agreed with other posts in this thread, but picked this one to quote because of the anger behind it. I'm feeling that same anger.

My oldest child has autism and sensory issues. I did not know that when he was an infant and a toddler. I was severely sleep-deprived (often to the point of psychosis) for the first few YEARS of his life because the child never slept. He cried, arched his back, was never comfortable, couldn't stay still, was a difficult nurser, and generally made my life a living hell. There was no such thing as an easy outing with him. But, we had to get out of the house. I had to get out of the house simply so I wouldn't lose my mind and kill us all some days.

If you have a child who has the occasional tantrum due to teething or tiredness or not getting what he wants, then good for you. My second is like that. It's incredibly easy raising a kid like that. You can come back to the store another day. You can hand the kid over to your partner. You know it's a temporary situation.

But if you have a child like my eldest, whose behaviors made no sense, who drove you to the point of madness on a constant basis, who never slept and never seemed to be happy except when doing dangerous things... then maybe you can understand the frustration that many of us on this thread are feeling at the judgmental posts about this couple.

Maybe the child described in the OP doesn't have special needs. Maybe the parents had other options. But, maybe things aren't always as they seem, and your judgment towards them is truly unacceptable and harmful.

I was blamed for my eldest child's behaviors. For years, I heard about how I was such a bad parent, how I should discipline him more, how I was screwing up so badly. I lost faith in myself. I am still plagued with self-doubt years later, even though I know now that all those judgmental people were wrong. Those words and attitudes brought significant harm to me and my relationship with my child. I will not forgive those who chose to judge rather than show compassion and understanding. I will sit in judgment of all of you who glare and shake your heads and mumble cruel things about other parents who deserve more care and kindness. You judge me when you judge those other parents who aren't performing to your standards. You judge me when you determine that you know better how to deal with a child that you don't even know. You judge me when you consider yourselves superior because your child never acts in such a manner, but if he did, you know just how you'd deal with it. You judge me. So, I sit here and virtually glare at you in return. I shake my head at your cruelty and thoughtlessness. I mumble about your lack of compassion and understanding. And I promise myself to be extra kind to the next parents I encounter whose heads are spinning and hands are full. Because I'd rather live in a world where we genuinely care about each other than one in which we hurt each other in order to feel better about ourselves.
post #77 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
I agreed with other posts in this thread, but picked this one to quote because of the anger behind it. I'm feeling that same anger.

My oldest child has autism and sensory issues. I did not know that when he was an infant and a toddler. I was severely sleep-deprived (often to the point of psychosis) for the first few YEARS of his life because the child never slept. He cried, arched his back, was never comfortable, couldn't stay still, was a difficult nurser, and generally made my life a living hell. There was no such thing as an easy outing with him. But, we had to get out of the house. I had to get out of the house simply so I wouldn't lose my mind and kill us all some days.

If you have a child who has the occasional tantrum due to teething or tiredness or not getting what he wants, then good for you. My second is like that. It's incredibly easy raising a kid like that. You can come back to the store another day. You can hand the kid over to your partner. You know it's a temporary situation.

But if you have a child like my eldest, whose behaviors made no sense, who drove you to the point of madness on a constant basis, who never slept and never seemed to be happy except when doing dangerous things... then maybe you can understand the frustration that many of us on this thread are feeling at the judgmental posts about this couple.

Maybe the child described in the OP doesn't have special needs. Maybe the parents had other options. But, maybe things aren't always as they seem, and your judgment towards them is truly unacceptable and harmful.

I was blamed for my eldest child's behaviors. For years, I heard about how I was such a bad parent, how I should discipline him more, how I was screwing up so badly. I lost faith in myself. I am still plagued with self-doubt years later, even though I know now that all those judgmental people were wrong. Those words and attitudes brought significant harm to me and my relationship with my child. I will not forgive those who chose to judge rather than show compassion and understanding. I will sit in judgment of all of you who glare and shake your heads and mumble cruel things about other parents who deserve more care and kindness. You judge me when you judge those other parents who aren't performing to your standards. You judge me when you determine that you know better how to deal with a child that you don't even know. You judge me when you consider yourselves superior because your child never acts in such a manner, but if he did, you know just how you'd deal with it. You judge me. So, I sit here and virtually glare at you in return. I shake my head at your cruelty and thoughtlessness. I mumble about your lack of compassion and understanding. And I promise myself to be extra kind to the next parents I encounter whose heads are spinning and hands are full. Because I'd rather live in a world where we genuinely care about each other than one in which we hurt each other in order to feel better about ourselves.
^This. (and mama....you are a warrior, ...I'm always glad to meet mamas like you.)

I want to say, that the above post is what I meant, when I said that I always try to give an encouraging smile and understanding to parents in this position...because you REALLY DON'T know what the true story is.

Sometimes I get mad, just burned up....because it's obvious the parent thinks it's funny, doesn't care..whatever...but then I think "What if this woman is REALLY embarassed and THAT is why she's laughing it off?" - and I jsut mind my own business.

The bottom line is...it doesn't really matter what the situation was...it doesn't really matter what the hidden reasons or non-reasons were behind this annoyance to other shoppers....kindness, it what really matters.

Kindness gets you a long way, I've learned. Kindness, in the face of a situation where you really don't even HAVE to be kind...where most people would say that you have a right to be UNKIND...gets you even further, at least in my book.

If you can't be understanding with people like this, on the off chance that there is a real, legit reason for their behavior....at least pity them, for their apparent lack of social awareness, which would cause any of us, if we could, to take a crying kid outside.

We are parents here. Everyone remembers the preparent days, where you saw a kid melt down in the store and thought "not my kids, when I have kids they will not behave like that" - then you have kids and all sorts of things you didn't understand, judged, etc are thrown in your face and sometimes you have to laugh at ever having judged those parents. And you can see, in the faces of people with no kids, who don't get it...those same judgements and you have to laugh it off, because you think to yourself "well, you don't have kids, those of us with kids, get it" - so...BE that. Be the "those of us with kids" and recognize that sometimes it's not clear to everyone else what's going on. Trust that what your kids are capable of doing to you (making you look like a complete jerk in public) other peoples kids are capable of doing to them.

Kindness can never be wasted. Best case scenario...you give a small boost of confidence to a mama who feels like running out into traffic over what her kid is doing and is so embarassed and just wants to sink into the floor....WORST case scenario...the mama is really ebing a jerk and just doesn't care...and YOU practiced tolerance and put POSITIVE vibes out in to the world anyway!

How can you lose, when you choose kindness, compassion and accept that, as a mere mortal human...you CAN'T see all reasons for all things??
post #78 of 186
I just removed my 3 y/o from a store the other day, so I was in a familiar situation. Fortunately, I was with my husband, and he was able to go about our business, and I was able to remove Devil Dillan to the comfort of our mini-van. We are blessed, though, with a lot of comforts that others might not have.

What if that family didn't have a car and took the bus to the store?

What if the situation had occurred in the middle of winter?

What if the situation had involved a single parent who had no food in the house and who had no other time to shop?

What if this is actually normal behavior for the child and because of diverse schedules, the shopping trip is the only time the family gets to spend together - thus the late time frame (the parents are aware of the screaming and its effect on other people).

Sometimes, judgement isn't just wrong - it's actually pretty crappy because there is just no way we can know what is going on in other people's lives. And if someone ever came up to me and screaming Devil Dillan and asked me to leave the store, they would get one heck of an earful.
post #79 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
Crying children used to annnoy me, but now I just have compassion for both the parents and the child.
Same here. I felt differently about a lot of things like this before I had a child of my own.

Also, I have a friend who has a gorgeous son with severe autism. You would never know there was a thing wrong with him from just looking, and I've witnessed her getting some horrible looks when out with him in public. She is used to it... it really made me mad.

You NEVER know what a person's situation is. Ever.

I have taken my child out of the grocery store before. I have also driven partway to the store, realized that my child was in a horrible mood, and turned the car around. But as people have pointed out, I have the resources (ie, time, reasonable distance to store) to do that.
post #80 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug-a-Boo's Mama View Post
First, it would have to have been an emergency for me to take DS out at 8:30 to go grocery shopping.

Okay so assuming we are in a parallel universe, if DH and I were out grocery shopping w/DS that late (for DS) I would have picked him up comforted him and then passed him to DH to have him walk around w/him. DS would not cry for an hour after being told no, but I also would have shopped as fast as possible at that point.

I would never leave DS sitting in the cart and let him cry for an hour, even if I was by myself. I would have picked him up and comforted him.

Sounds like that DC might have been sick? Maybe the mother didn't want to leave the DC home alone w/the DF because it kind of seems like him might not have been too reliable. Maybe they only have one car and this was the only time for them to go to the store and they needed to get all they needed. Of course while making these excuses, the mother also never picked the child up either. So, who knows.
your 8:30 would ahve been my 11:30 to 1:30. some kids have sleep issues, even disorders. some PARENTS have sleep disorders. some parents work third shift and their kids' schedules are screwed up. it's nice for you that things are ideal in your world for shopping, but that's not the case for most of us.

trying to go anywhere near my daughter, or to speak to her in anything more than short, repetitive phrases, during a "tantrum" in a store would result in doubling both the length and volume of the episode, not to mention me getting hit or kicked in the head. this is when she was little; at eight we occasionally still have loud crying freakouts in the store. I have to look straight ahead and take her by the hand, get done what I need to get done or it's worse. I'm sure I look like I'm ignoring her. I'm not. I have just learned what works over the years. know what? NOTHING works! I do not have the joy of being able to comfort my child when she is injured, upset or angry like most moms do. It is part of the mothering experience I don't get. yeah, it's devastating. so quit judging us, ok? be glad you don't know what it's like to have those days. a sympathetic smile looks better on you (general you, not the quoted poster. I'm going off on all the general meanies in Evil-Mart) anyway than that nasty look.
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