Rules for All People...

[Just1More]

Since before I had children, I was always annoyed at all the rules people have for their kids. Most stuff was just arbitrary, really, and had no bearing on who their child would become. Just a bunch of randomness the child was expected to remember. Randomness that wouldn't even apply as the child grew.

But, I find myself in this trap sometimes. When we are traveling, it's so easy to start nagging them with "don't touch this," "don't do that", "do this". It's exhausting for them and me. I very much dislike it.

So, I am working very hard to return to my ideal in spite of those around me. The only things I truly want to trouble my children with are those things that are forming their characters.

For example, tonight dd and I talked about what a habit is. I explained that I wanted to help her have good habits when she was a grown up, so we would practice together now. I talked about what people expect other people do, and how she could practice doing it that way now so when she was a grown up it would be easier. Makes so much more sense than "sit still and be quiet." And our little conversation endeared her to me and she sat still and was much quieter than I expected.

I really need some phrases to pull out on repeat about what makes people nice. You now, the why we do what we do. What really matters?

Can you help me come up with some of these catch phrases? Basically, I want to narrow our rules down to just a few things that apply to ALL people, not just children.

[sparklefairy]

Respect (be kind to) yourself.
Respect (be kind to) each other.

These are subjective phrases, relative to family/cultural/situational/developmental situations, of course.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is probably best attributed to a family

"Forming characters" is also complicated, imo, in that it is not just a "right now" or just a "in the long run" concept. I know what you mean, and some of what we say and do is survival-in-the-moment while some is building-toward-the-future.

I love your example of talking about habits with your dd.

[LilyGrace]

We have four rules here - it must be safe, respectful, legal, and moral. That's for everyone in the house, but mom and dad get an extra rule - State things in a positive manner.

The basic rules make it easy to stop undesirable behavior. I can hold up 4 fingers now and see the cogs working and have the behavior change, or see a slow nod to each one.

I think they really set the foundation for what 'kind' is. We work more on manners to help with that - seeing things from the other person's view, common traits expected in different scenarios, that sort of thing, but the 4 rules still set the foundation for taht.

[GoodNamesGone]

One that my mother always said was, "Treat others how you want to be treated."

She also said, "If something isn't yours, don't touch it without permission."

And my favorite that I tell my step-sons, "If you want something, ask once and accept the answer."

Typing it out, it seems kind of long, but it worked on my brother and I as kids. I am using them with my step-sons and have seen a big improvement... We're still working on "don't touch without permission" because they don't get out a whole lot, and at school most things are community property, but they're starting to get the picture.

The asking once rule is working really well because they ask a little more now, and have learned that parents (and step-parents :P) actually DO say yes without being annoyed to death

[RasJi7]

: Love the four rules! And the don't touch without permission. These are great.

[MamaStarbird]

Originally Posted by LilyGrace

We have four rules here - it must be safe, respectful, legal, and moral. That's for everyone in the house, but mom and dad get an extra rule - State things in a positive manner.

The basic rules make it easy to stop undesirable behavior. I can hold up 4 fingers now and see the cogs working and have the behavior change, or see a slow nod to each one.

I think they really set the foundation for what 'kind' is. We work more on manners to help with that - seeing things from the other person's view, common traits expected in different scenarios, that sort of thing, but the 4 rules still set the foundation for taht.

THIS! Basic principles (safety, kindness, respect) encompass everything. Rules will always have a loophole ("don't hit" doesn't rule out kicking/pinching/etc) and require the creation of more rules.

[Carley]

Originally Posted by Just1More

Since before I had children, I was always annoyed at all the rules people have for their kids. Most stuff was just arbitrary, really, and had no bearing on who their child would become. Just a bunch of randomness the child was expected to remember. Randomness that wouldn't even apply as the child grew.

But, I find myself in this trap sometimes.

Boy do I relate! I think a lot of us have "ideas" regarding parenting which are shattered when reality hits!

Anyway! Interested to hear how everyone makes their rules clear & enforces them!

[aprons_and_acorns]

Originally Posted by Just1More

I really need some phrases to pull out on repeat about what makes people nice. You now, the why we do what we do. What really matters?

Can you help me come up with some of these catch phrases? Basically, I want to narrow our rules down to just a few things that apply to ALL people, not just children.

Great thread! I love what the PP said about principles as opposed to rules, which indeed always have loopholes and require the creation of new rules.

One thing we've worked to instill in our son is respect for the work and the efforts of others. I find that saying, "When we put our hands on the glass instead of using the doorhandle, a worker needs to spend time wiping our fingerprints off the door" is a lot more effective than a general "don't touch that."

The other part of this is to point out the working person behind the things that we see every day. For example, "Doesn't the bank look so pretty with all of the summer flowers and shrubs? It takes a lot of work to maintain this kind of landscaping. It is so neat and tidy!" or "We can find that book easily because the library workers keep everything so orderly. I imagine that's a very big job."

A handy catchphrase for us is, "That may be creating extra work for people on the job. What do you think?"

Another handy catchphrase we use is, "peaceful and pleasant" I feel that those two words discribe how we care to interact with the world and each other *most* of the time

I don't know if that is of any use to you, but I just thought I'd share it.

[heartmama]

We also have a 'basic principles' basis for the family. I find it annoying when people have lots of arbitrary and tedious rules for children, but I do not find it annoying when parents are working to teach or guide a child by having limits, expectations, boundaries etc. Just because it is different from what they might extend to other adults does not automatically make it annoying to me. I don't think children are small adults--they are future adults--and while they are children the relationship they have with a parent is totally different than an adult relating to an adult friend. If I find someone overbearing and rude I can just stop being around them. I can't do that with my own child.

I spend lots of time working around people whom nobody took the time to teach and discipline as children. It is terribly sad. They don't even know what they don't know, if that makes sense. They struggle through the world trying to teach themselves what somebody should have been there helping them learn as children.

Some of our basic principles in the family are:

No hitting
Speak respectfully
Generosity
Forgiveness

[mommysarah5]

Respect Yourself
Respect Others
Respect your Environment (indoors and outdoors)

I feel that really covers just about everything I can think of.

[Just1More]

Thanks for your responses. I'm mullling them over, but didn't want ya'll to think I wasn't reading. Thanks again.

[EdnaMarie]

Safe and kind... and legal, that's a good one, I wonder when we'll get to it

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Safe and kind... and legal, that's a good one, I wonder when we'll get to it

I'm a libertarian and I think a lot of laws shouldn't be in place in the first place, that they violate/contradict constitutional rights, so I can't get on board with the "legal" thing. They could make it a law that on the 3rd day of every month you have to eat poop. (Okay I know thats a silly example) but IMO if the law goes against respecting yourself, others, or your environment, then I would support my children even if they didn't follow the law.

[LilyGrace]

Originally Posted by mommysarah5

I'm a libertarian and I think a lot of laws shouldn't be in place in the first place, that they violate/contradict constitutional rights, so I can't get on board with the "legal" thing. They could make it a law that on the 3rd day of every month you have to eat poop. (Okay I know thats a silly example) but IMO if the law goes against respecting yourself, others, or your environment, then I would support my children even if they didn't follow the law.

This is the tricky area. I'm not sure that we'll continue the 'legal' guideline as he grows, but I want to keep the rule for now until he has learned to exhaust all other options/form a defense. I have no problem with fighting to change a law and consciously doing something that you know may land you in jail if it goes with your beliefs. BUT, I do want to set the foundation that it's not to be done recklessly or because of a want, but because of a social need.

ETA: there's also the fact that we live in a foreign country right now and there are laws different from our own country. Understanding 'it's legal here, but not there' is important.

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by LilyGrace

This is the tricky area. I'm not sure that we'll continue the 'legal' guideline as he grows, but I want to keep the rule for now until he has learned to exhaust all other options/form a defense. I have no problem with fighting to change a law and consciously doing something that you know may land you in jail if it goes with your beliefs. BUT, I do want to set the foundation that it's not to be done recklessly or because of a want, but because of a social need.

ETA: there's also the fact that we live in a foreign country right now and there are laws different from our own country. Understanding 'it's legal here, but not there' is important.

Oh I do agree with teaching what the laws are, but our rules are not to follow all those laws. The laws that I believe should be in place involve respecting yourself, others, and your environment though, so since those are our rules, and those are the laws we believe in, we just don't need the legal clause. I respect a different family with different values and different rules needing that rule though By default, if they are following our house rules, they wouldn't be going about it recklessly anyway

[heartmama]

I teach ds to know the law. There are so many laws--I find most people don't actually know enough of them to truly say they are following the law. People often break laws without having any idea they did anything wrong. So, to me just know the law in the first place is my focus.

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by heartmama

I teach ds to know the law. There are so many laws--I find most people don't actually know enough of them to truly say they are following the law. People often break laws without having any idea they did anything wrong. So, to me just know the law in the first place is my focus.

My husband knows the law better then the cops that seem to like harassing him for having tattoos (thats not why they say they are harassing him, but they take one look at him and think he's a criminal and then they actually do things to him that are against the law. I could tell some stories that would make a persons head spin. It's interesting, as a child I loved cops, my uncle was one, but now that I see how some of them can be extremely dishonest it bothers me. I mean of course, they are only human, some of them will be corrupt, but the many meaningless unconstitutional laws only gives the bad cops more reason to harass good people and the good cops more reason to miss out on finding the bad people.

[LilyGrace]

Originally Posted by mommysarah5

Oh I do agree with teaching what the laws are, but our rules are not to follow all those laws. The laws that I believe should be in place involve respecting yourself, others, and your environment though, so since those are our rules, and those are the laws we believe in, we just don't need the legal clause. I respect a different family with different values and different rules needing that rule though By default, if they are following our house rules, they wouldn't be going about it recklessly anyway

Hehe...where my sister lived it was against the law to wash your car in the street. While it doesn't fall into any of the respect clauses, at least not the obvious ones to a child trying to make some pocket money, it does become important to stress following local customs and laws because of the fact that we're not citizens. There's no way to change it, no good reason to defy it.

[mommysarah5]

Originally Posted by LilyGrace

Hehe...where my sister lived it was against the law to wash your car in the street. While it doesn't fall into any of the respect clauses, at least not the obvious ones to a child trying to make some pocket money, it does become important to stress following local customs and laws because of the fact that we're not citizens. There's no way to change it, no good reason to defy it.

Respect yourself it would fall under. Why would you break a law when there is no reason to defy it? Only a person who is not respecting themselves would do that.

[LilyGrace]

Originally Posted by mommysarah5

Respect yourself it would fall under. Why would you break a law when there is no reason to defy it? Only a person who is not respecting themselves would do that.

I think you misread me. I said no good reason, not no reason. Where we are from it's more common to wash your car in front of your house. It is not disrepecting yourself to do so. LOL

But, whether or not we understand the law, we still need to adhere to all the country's laws and not make a fuss when they inconvenience us or our family. It's just not our place.