intolerance to kefir? - Page 2

[WuWei]

By "milk", I meant your coconut water. Sorry, I misspoke.

Yes, your understanding of constipation/loose stools is a basic 'rule of thumb' about kefir fermented in the cupboard. But, the longer the kefir *continues* to ferment in cupboard or refrigerator (slowly), there are more beneficial microbials developing and theoretically "better" for impaired guts, per my understanding. However, your son is so sensitive to "foreign" bacteria in the gut, it seems to create quite a reaction. Did you/he receive antibiotics at birth? Our son did. And I lament the day. :::sigh:::

Basically, at birth our body 'learns' what is "normal" and "foreign", and antibiotics mess that up. So, the body attacks normal gut microbials as an "invader". That is an auto-immune disorder, essentially. Some bodies are more severely impacted than others. MY belief/hope/perception/research/reading/understanding leads me to embrace whole food nutrition with nutrient dense foods, and improving stomach acid to improve bio-availability of nutrients, and improved nutrients for opening detox pathways, and replacement of beneficial microbials for optimizing and healing the gut/immune system.

I believe that *traditional* whole food probiotics are more holistic than processed ones. The commercial soil probiotics are a fascinating concept, one which I haven't embraced completely. I really have no idea how the various probiotics you are administering interact with each other. The Good-belly is about the equivalent of commercial yogurt, with Active Live Cultures So, if you are having success with that, I would be comfortable holding off on kefir. I haven't made coconut yogurt at home. Finding a non-dairy culture starter is the catch.

My guiding premise is to *listen to the body*. So, if he isn't feeling well with an addition (ie kefir), I'd hold off, wait, continue along, and retry some time in the future. The most important focus is that he continue to *trust* the nutrition in your magical smoothie. That is more important than kefir, imo.


Pat

[WuWei]

Have you considered classical homeopathy? I wonder how much that has helped us. Ds has amazing tolerance for foods, despite the antibiotics at birth and I didn't know about gut healing until 3+ years ago. We nursed until age 2, he has a huge mercury load from me, and I did elimination diets (nutrient deficient) for much of the first two years. The homeopathy seems to be the variable which moved us over the hump for our son to tolerate MANY foods to which he was formally intolerant. (Or, perhaps it was halting nursing and thus eliminating my toxin dumping...)

I still actively add and include nutrient dense foods into our diet and add gut healing processes (soaked grains, raw dairy, whole food probiotics, raw nuts, healthy oils, CLO, etc. etc.). However, ds (age 8) eats McDonalds about every weekend and does great. The homeopathy really seems to be a key for us. We have issues develop as the homeopathy 'wears off'; and I redose him and we have smoother behavioral transitions, better sleep, more food intake, less sensory issues, more ability to negotiate, etc.

I'm not wanting to send you chasing rainbows here, there and yonder. It is staggering the difficulty due to impaired guts. You are doing amazing with his nutrition.


All the best,


Pat

[tolovemercy]

A quick thought that may or may not have been addressed already in this thread--is anyone else drinking the kefir? I wonder if the grains could be bad?

[riomidwife]

From my perspective it seems like the kefir clearly disagrees with your son.
Clear diarrhea, in my opinion, is a serious sign that the body is trying to rid itself of something, and can cause dehydration, electrolyte imbalance, etc. Perhaps this is a situation where the damage outweighs the benefits? By the way, from an Ayurvedic perspective, fermented foods, especially those that have been fermented more than ay day or so, can really provoke heat, or pitta, symptoms and conditions in a person, for example diarrhea.

[aris99]

Originally Posted by tolovemercy

A quick thought that may or may not have been addressed already in this thread--is anyone else drinking the kefir? I wonder if the grains could be bad?

Thanks for your input...but my entire family, my parents, my 2 other children and I, myself, have been drinking this stuff in various quantities w/no ill affects. I am new to the world of kefir making so I did wonder but I don't think this is the problem.

[aris99]

Originally Posted by riomidwife

From my perspective it seems like the kefir clearly disagrees with your son.
Clear diarrhea, in my opinion, is a serious sign that the body is trying to rid itself of something, and can cause dehydration, electrolyte imbalance, etc. Perhaps this is a situation where the damage outweighs the benefits? By the way, from an Ayurvedic perspective, fermented foods, especially those that have been fermented more than ay day or so, can really provoke heat, or pitta, symptoms and conditions in a person, for example diarrhea.

Thanks for your input. Are foods fermented for 24 hrs considered to be bad? My son had pretty bad diarrhea when I was giving him more than 1/4 teas every day. Now he just seems to have gas pains...I'm giving him 1/4 teas every other day. I think I can see some *good* changes in my son BUT I am not sure that these are attributable to the kefir. Is 24 hr old kefir that is stored in the fridge for a day or 2 still considered pitta? What foods are good for a person who is so sensitive? (We are vegetarian) I'd appreciate any input!

[riomidwife]

Are you really attached to the giving him kefir? How long have you been giving it to him for? What does he say about it? Why not take some time off it a while if it is clearly causing him trouble? I posted a few weeks ago about fermented foods from an Ayurvedic perspective because so many folks here are into them, but in my experience they are not for everyone. You can check out that thread here. http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1103795

If it seems like your son has a pitta imbalance one place to start would be removing all the foods that are significantly heating, or pitta provoking. Lists of those can be found online, and typically include spicy and fermented foods, most cheese, dairy, etc.

[aris99]

Originally Posted by riomidwife

Are you really attached to the giving him kefir? How long have you been giving it to him for? What does he say about it? Why not take some time off it a while if it is clearly causing him trouble? I posted a few weeks ago about fermented foods from an Ayurvedic perspective because so many folks here are into them, but in my experience they are not for everyone. You can check out that thread here. http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1103795

If it seems like your son has a pitta imbalance one place to start would be removing all the foods that are significantly heating, or pitta provoking. Lists of those can be found online, and typically include spicy and fermented foods, most cheese, dairy, etc.

Hmmm....I am not really attached to kefir. My son has oral aversions which at one point were so bad he was admitted to the ER w/nutritional deficiencies (when he was 2...he's almost 6 now). The Drs told us he would require a feeding tube. I did not want to go this route so I immediately remedied his deficiencies w/liquid vits. I had to almost sit on him to take these and 50% of them he threw up. I started researching and came up w/a nutritional drink/smoothie that he could tolerate...slowly adding bits of this and bits of that. Today he's a healthy, happy kid w/oral aversions and sensory issues...some of which he has overcome but others which have given rise to bigger problems.

I have been experimenting over the past 6 mos w/ supplements like mag, zinc, dha, and kefir to see if I can maybe lessen his oral defensiveness. He has (voluntarily) tried ONE new food in the past 4 yrs. Foods are offered, his siblings eat a variety of foods in his presence, different methods have been employed to get him to just place a new food on his lips or tongue but he won't. He's hyper sensitive to smell and taste. The kefir was one thing I thought might help. I don't think I could use the Ayurvedic method because if, as you say...and you may very well be correct, he has a pitta imbalance, I can't fix it any time soon as he relies HEAVILY on cheese for his main source of solid nutrition. One of the few high protein foods he consumes daily.

I see in many of the Ayurvedic sites foods that should be eaten or avoided...I can't do this easily w/my son...are there any specific nutrients...vitamins, minerals, micronutrients that can be hidden in a smoothie that I could try to counteract the affect of the cheese? He also LOVES Red Hot blue tortilla chips which ALWAYS produce an eczema flare-up around his mouth. I have restricted his access to these but I never say no when it comes to my son and food....a bite of any solid food has got to be a positive experience for him...even if he's sensitive to it.

Thanks so much for your input!