Adjustments in lifestyle

[meandmine]

Hi! I am fairly new to this forum, but oh, do I need to be here!

Going through a protracted divorce. I was cushioning the financial blow using inheritance, but with the stockmarket crumble, I am no longer able to do that. I do not live an extravagant life-style, but there are quality of life things I am really struggling with giving up.

So, trying to figure out how to survive with my kids. I did a single parents budget sheet, and just with the basics, not including soccer, swim team, piano lessons, and tutor, much less vacations and eating out, I was spending $1200 more than I earn every month.

Here are some thoughts; would love your frugal feed-back:

1. Sell house. I refi'd to get stbx off mortgage and deed since 90% of the investment in the house was mine. Mortgage is more than 50% of my takehome pay (not including child support).

PROS: cut PITI in 1/2?; have less maintenance costs if move to condo or townhouse; CONS: really hard on children; would lose support system of neighborhood/school

2. Get rid of newspaper delivery, FIOS (except wireless internet), not sure if I can get a cheaper cell phone plan, cheaper landline plan.

3. Stop eating out (I LOVE LOVE LOVE eating out)

4. Cancel piano lessons (they are about $350 a month for both my girls). I wouldn't drop soccer or swim team. And my younger dd would like to try gymnastics.
PROS: Saves money CONS: My girls love it and I think it is a life-altering skill and helps with intellectual development.

5. Grocery shop differently. I would love advice on this. I am not a big meat buyer. I am always shocked at how high my bill is when I feel like I don't buy much.

So, if you have read through this, I would love your perspective. I am, for the first time, really, really worried about how the quality of my children's lives is going to plummet now that we really only have my salary to survive on (thanks, stbx, who's salary is double mine, but who is about to declare bankruptcy).

Thanks!

M

[amyamanda]

This may not be enough, but I would also be loathe for my kids to stop music lessons, so I have a few ideas.

Are you musical at all? Could you supplement those lessons by becoming more actively involved in guiding their practicing? This is what I do with my kids. My DD plays violin and my DS plays guitar, and we only see their teachers when we can't progress further on our own. My DD only has a short lesson which is $15. My other DS is learning recorder and tin whistle completely on his own, with my help. I would not be able to afford weekly lessons. Occasionally I will pay for a lesson for myself to get guidance on how to teach my kids. But that only works if you are musically experienced (I don't play any of the instruments that my kids are learning, but I know enough about music to help them with reading music and playing musically and understanding basic theory, and the teachers help primarily with technique.)

I would talk with their teacher and let her know it's unaffordable to you and why. Let her know that you do want her to be paid what she is worth and if she can't be flexible in what she charges, you'll understand, but ask if she will consider giving you a break, so you won't have to stop. Some teachers are open to barter, if you have anything you can offer there (one common barter here is "homemade dinner.")

Also see how flexible she is with scheduling. If she needs to keep her schedule regular to guarantee her income, see if you can have just one lesson slot and let the girls each go every other week. This would mean a lesson every two weeks for each of them. If she's more flexible than that (my kids' teachers are, thankfully), then schedule lessons as you can afford them, with the understanding that your kids will continue practicing and she should give them a progressive list of stuff to work on over time until you can afford another lesson. This is assuming that your kids truly enjoy piano and want to continue with it - it wouldn't work with a kid who wasn't motivated to continue. I have had teachers say they think kids MUST have a weekly lesson, but in my experience it isn't necessary if the kids have help keeping their momentum going.

You might consider finding a cheaper teacher - college student, even a mature high school student...track down the local school music teachers and ask their suggestions.

If your kids are in public school, maybe they could switch instruments and take something that is offered free or cheap at school. This might be a good time for them to branch out and learn something new. The skills they've learned from piano will be a very helpful foundation and many of those skills will keep building even if they're playing a different instrument. Check with the school first to find out what the commitment and cost would be - it varies so widely.

I wonder if there is cheaper housing within your neighborhood or school district? Possibly a rental? Beware that condos/townhouses have association fees to cover maintenance and sometimes it's more than you'd pay on your own (the association might pay - and charge everyone - or lawnmowing and snow removal, for example, when you would otherwise handle it yourself for free).

We do fine without newspaper, cell phones, eating out here.

There are TONS of good ideas in this forum for shopping, meal-planning, and eating frugally! That topic seems to be perpetual, so skim the archives and search on "meal-planning" and "grocery." There is a thread of $2 meals that has a ton of info in it.

I would keep the music somehow, even if everything else changed, because it is so enjoyable in our family - recreation, stress release, something we can do together, an investment in future/lifetime enjoyment, and once you've learned it - it's essentially free fun.

Good luck!

[Rebecca]

First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I don't wish it upon anyone and I'm so sorry you're mourning the loss of your dream and partner. <HUG>

I'm no atty, but even if your stbx is declaring bankrupcy, he still has a legal financial responsibility to his children and the courts will look at his income and give you a big chunk of it. His bankrupcy will wipe his debt slate clean but also insure he can't buy a home in the next 7 years, and so long as he keeps his job, he'll have plenty of money to pay for HIS kid's lessons.

regarding saving money, canceling home phone service is wonderfully liberating. We just use our cell phones now. You can keep a phone plugged in to call 911 if need be, but it doesn't cost anything. Meal planning helps tremendously versus stocking the pantry when you grocery shop. I wouldn't sell the house. The kids have enough upheaval in their lives, and again, stbx should be paying toward their care. On a lighter note, find a boyfriend to provide you dinners out! (totally joking!!! Well, sort of!!! This is supposed to make you chuckle).

[meandmine]

Thanks, ladies! This is such a huge adjustment. Gave me perspective, though, today, after church I learned a friend's husband lost his job in April and hasn't found one yet. At least I have a job!!!

I did tell the piano teacher I couldn't afford to move dd #1 back up to a 45 minute lesson because of finances and she gave me a 10% break in fee. Not enough, but it is a start.

I will have to think about going to cell only ... I worry about my kids having access to a phone for emergencys -- to call 911 or their dad. I could give them one, but I doubt they'd keep track of it (age 7 and 9). Will contemplate.

Around here condo/townhouse fees would be waaay less than I pay to a) have lawn mowed (not something I get to--I tried, but with f-t work and grad school and kids activities ...) b) gutters cleaned c) decked power washed/stained, etc.

I would save a lot to be in a townhouse and a condo would be one level living which I'd like!

There is one townhouse community in our school pyramid, so I am keeping my eyes open. There are several townhouse/condos in our town with the same high school, but we would change neighborhoods and elementary schools, so that would be plan B.

Of course I'd have to successfully sell this place. It will sell; we are walking distance to the subway, but not sure how much I'd get for it. I think about having a roommate or tenant, but not sure if that would work; my basement isn't finished.

As for stbx -- yes, he'd continue CS and our agreement says he has to pay his pro-rated share of extra-curricular, which is he not doing now, so there is a chance I might get 1/2 the cost of those lessons, tutor, swim team and soccer -- a chance. There is also a chance the bankruptcy trustee will say the transfer of the house to me was preferential; to hide stbx's assets and order me to sell the house and pay off stbx's creditors. Wouldn't that be lovely? Keeping my fingers crossed.

Keep the good ideas coming!

Thanks!

Meg

[Krystal323]

BIG {{{}}} It's hard to go thru a divorce, and the financial adjustments can be nearly soul-crushing. i didn't have much financial quality of life before my divorce, but it surely plummetted even farther down afterwards, even with state assistance, getting remarried, etc.

1. Sell house. I refi'd to get stbx off mortgage and deed since 90% of the investment in the house was mine. Mortgage is more than 50% of my takehome pay (not including child support).

PROS: cut PITI in 1/2?; have less maintenance costs if move to condo or townhouse; CONS: really hard on children; would lose support system of neighborhood/school

i would definitely sell--even if it means you're breaking even, it will be a HUGE reduction in bills, maintenance, electric costs, etc. We are 5 (soon to be 6) people living in a 1200 sq ft apartment, but we're saving roughly $300/mo on electric bills alone compared to the house we were in.

2. Get rid of newspaper delivery, FIOS (except wireless internet), not sure if I can get a cheaper cell phone plan, cheaper landline plan.

i don't know anyone locally under the age of 40 that has landlines anymore! i don't think i know anyone that gets the newspaper delivered either. cellphones and yahoo news have to suffice for us internet is probably cheapest thru a cellphone company (laptop connect card) if you've only got one computer. we have 4, and use cable internet + a wireless router for the laptops. we do not have cable tv, and the $40/mo for cable internet is our only set "entertainment" expense--but really i need the internet for work, school, etc. internet is one quality-of-life thing we simply cannot go without.

3. Stop eating out (I LOVE LOVE LOVE eating out)

okay....unless you're talking about "i didn't have time to pack a lunch for work and so i swung thru taco bell for a $1 burrito", then eating out is absolutely an extravagance. i know that's not what you wanna hear! : i love eating out too--but we simply can't do it more than say once every month or two as a family b/c it's too expensive. a dinner out at the local Italian place costs more that groceries for a week for us

4. Cancel piano lessons (they are about $350 a month for both my girls). I wouldn't drop soccer or swim team. And my younger dd would like to try gymnastics.
PROS: Saves money CONS: My girls love it and I think it is a life-altering skill and helps with intellectual development.

i don't know what circumstances your ex is in, but he should be paying at least half of these types of things IN ADDITION to child support. Lessons for the kids directly affect the KIDS' quality of life, and not yours, so I'd think he'd be more generous with that sort of thing. However, i'm sorry, but $350/mo for any lessons sounds dizzying to me. That might be something that just has to be let go, or at least put on pause for awhile. it's pretty unrealistic to think that the kids can be completely insulated from the financial hardship of the divorce, however depressing that seems.


5. Grocery shop differently. I would love advice on this. I am not a big meat buyer. I am always shocked at how high my bill is when I feel like I don't buy much.

this is a difficult area for me as well. i'm a lousy cook, but luckily i married a great one! i can't really give you much advice here...

Good luck, and i'm sorry about the divorce. lifestyle changes like this can be so disheartening

[SleeplessMommy]

Start with canceling your paper and FIOS. In fact, I would make a list of all expenses and cancel everything after you reach 95% of your income + CS. You can stop piano lessons, for example, and restart them in 6 months or so when finances are better.

Make a calculation of how much the EX owes you in back payments for the extracurricular activities and try to get him to cough it up - you need an emergency fund.

The house at 50% of take home is too much. What % is it at if you consider CS as part of income? Can you move the 2 girls into one bedroom and get a roommate?

Unfortunately, there is a huge adjustment here for you with the divorce. Move the eating out to once a month, a special eat out night if your other spending is on track. That will make lots of room in your budget. :

best wishes

[Satori]

Sorry your going through a divorce but seriously, your living a seriously privileged life. Your a single mother now, do NOT count on the father for help. If he pays then great! extra money but only count on what you can make yourself. As such you might want to radically rethink a few things.

Originally Posted by meandmine

Hi! I am fairly new to this forum, but oh, do I need to be here!

Going through a protracted divorce. I was cushioning the financial blow using inheritance, but with the stockmarket crumble, I am no longer able to do that. I do not live an extravagant life-style, but there are quality of life things I am really struggling with giving up.

If you can't afford it on your salary then you can't afford it period. You will adapt and so will the kids. I know its hard, I've btdt but you might just find your happier after you don't have all these

So, trying to figure out how to survive with my kids. I did a single parents budget sheet, and just with the basics, not including soccer, swim team, piano lessons, and tutor, much less vacations and eating out, I was spending $1200 more than I earn every month.

Not good, you need to stay in the green which I'm sure you know

Here are some thoughts; would love your frugal feed-back:

1. Sell house. I refi'd to get stbx off mortgage and deed since 90% of the investment in the house was mine. Mortgage is more than 50% of my takehome pay (not including child support).

PROS: cut PITI in 1/2?; have less maintenance costs if move to condo or townhouse; CONS: really hard on children; would lose support system of neighborhood/school

Sounds like its time to move, give your kids some credit, they might do better then you think and while I would love to live in a 3 bedroom 2 bath and a huge yard I know its not in the budget. You will form a new support system in the new neighborhood and just because you move a short distance doesn't mean you lose your support system. It means you will have to drive a few minutes to visit friends.

2. Get rid of newspaper delivery, FIOS (except wireless internet), not sure if I can get a cheaper cell phone plan, cheaper landline plan.

Couple options:

Option 1: Get rid of landline (you will still have 911 access for free). Use cell phone for all calls. Wireless internet costs a lot more then cable or DSL internet doesn't it? I get DSL fast enough to watch TV online for $25mo through AT&T. I hooked up a wireless router so we can get internet on the laptop but I hardwired the computers.

Option #2 Get local only service on landline, use cell for long distance.

Option #3 Local only access on phone, use cheap calling card for long distance (I got a card for 1200 minutes for $16 on ebay, lasted several months) switch to prepaid cell phone and only use for emergencies. Costs about $10 month.

As for the newspaper, get rid of it, its old news by the time it hits your doorstep anyway! Online you get reports minutes after it happens and more sources. I know of several major newspapers that stopped printing a few months ago and switched to an all online format. There's no shame in getting your news this way and hey, its a green option!

3. Stop eating out (I LOVE LOVE LOVE eating out)

We don't even do the $1 menu at Taco Bell anymore (honestly we can't afford it), we pack food with us or go hungry. I keep a bunch of snacks in the diaper bag to hold us over until we get home if something happens and we didn't have time to pack food. Otherwise I now keep an ice chest in the car and lots of ice packs and take 10 minutes to pack a days worth of food and drinks. Its good on the budget and good for your waistline since you tend to eat healthier at home, fast food tends to be very high calorie/high sodium and just plain unhealthy. Trust me I'm not a health freak, I eat cookies for a meal on a regular basis This morning for breakfast I had a coke and tortilla chips because I was to tired to cook something

4. Cancel piano lessons (they are about $350 a month for both my girls). I wouldn't drop soccer or swim team. And my younger dd would like to try gymnastics.
PROS: Saves money CONS: My girls love it and I think it is a life-altering skill and helps with intellectual development.

$350 a month for lessons!? That is insane, it sounds like you can't afford soccer or swim team either. While its fun, it is not a life altering skill imo and right now its not something you can afford. Maybe they can pick it up at a later time but for now you need to be able to pay the basics. Your $1200 over every month, thats not making it. One option would be to barter, when I was a teen and wanted to take karate, my parents couldn't afford it so in exchange for lessons I cleaned the dojo everyday. Also, the vast majorty of kids around the world don't get these kinds of lessons and they turn out just fine. They are a luxury item period.


5. Grocery shop differently. I would love advice on this. I am not a big meat buyer. I am always shocked at how high my bill is when I feel like I don't buy much.

Its also where your shopping and not just what your buying. I was talking to my neighbor last night and she just spent $300 at Albertsons and is worried the food won't even last them 2 weeks. Thats a high priced store, I spend the $10 in gas and drive into the city and can EASILY make that $300 get a months worth of food. Here's just a few examples of the price differences.

Cucumbers 2/$1, thats crazy, I get them 8/$1
Chicken breasts (boneless/skinless) a fantastic sale price here is $1.98lb, I found them on sale for 99 cents a lbs last month and bought a couple months worth.
Cilantro 2/$1, I get 5/$1
Roma Tomatos 99cents lb is a fantastic price here, I get them on sale either 3lbs/$1 or 6lbs/$1.

Now multiply this by everything you buy and you can see how quickly your budget gets eaten up. My suggestion, meet the people on public assistance, I bet they will lead you to much cheaper places to shop for the same exact foods your already buying. Large Mexican markets are fantastic for cheap meat and produce. I can literally walk out with a shopping cart overflowing with produce for less then $20 there. That same amount would cost well over $100 at the local grocery stores like Albertsons/Vons. If your really lucky a good shopper will let you tag along on shopping day and show you the ropes. A friend did it for me and now I'm taking that neighbor who spent the $300 with me on my next shopping trip to show her how to stretch that into an overflowing pantry, especially if she can afford to spend $300 every 2 weeks. She will have so much food she won't know what to do with it!

So, if you have read through this, I would love your perspective. I am, for the first time, really, really worried about how the quality of my children's lives is going to plummet now that we really only have my salary to survive on (thanks, stbx, who's salary is double mine, but who is about to declare bankruptcy).

Your attitude has a lot to do with this, spin it as having more quality family time. I can't imagine the stress of working full time plus running kids to piano, soccer, swimming, tutoring ect. When do you have time to be a family? It sounds like never to be honest. Your kids need you more then they need lessons.


Thanks!

M

[Knittin' in the Shade]

A few things jump to mind first - the piano lessons are too high, and with your overage every month that's just not an amount you can continue to pay. I pay (A good deal) less than that per month for 3 kids - $65 a week total, for one ($25) 45 min lesson (with an amazing grad student who has developed my oldest's talent to the point where he's about the start performing locally), then two 1/2 hour lessons ($20 each) with a teacher in the neighborhood for the younger boys. I'd see if you can get the teacher to drop her fees, or look around for another teacher - I found the oldest's teacher when she performed at a local museum and I approached her afterwards about teaching. Also, my thoughts on this are probably biased because I think piano lessons are vital to my kids, but I'd definitely go for the piano and drop the swimming/soccer before I'd drop piano. You can find free/very low cost ways of meeting your kids' physical needs, like township summer recreation programs (our township's program is $5 per kid for hte enitre summer, 9-12 and 1-3 every day!) or just going to a local park with a soccer ball and kicking it around with friends.

On a phone for your kids - if you're worried about them not being able to contact you from home, why not get a pre-paid cell phone (they're cheap, you can get one for $30-40) and then leave it at home - don't let them take it out at all. They can call you in an emergency at the pre-loaded minutes wll last forever if they only call when they *really* need you.

To be honest, more than 50% of your take-home pay is too much for housing. I'd strongly consider selling, or testing the water to see if you could rent it for the costs to cover the mortgage, and then rent another (cheaper) place for yourself.

[meandmine]

Thank you very much, everybody.

Baby steps, I think. First: cancel paper, FIOS tv and resubscribe to netflix. We will see what that does to the FIOS internet bill; if it isn't low enough I will switch to something cheaper (but not as flawlessly fast; fyi, it really is awesome).

Seriously will consider getting rid of land line and leaving phones plugged in for 911 with a cell phone available for the girls some specific place in the house (I can get a phone for $10 a month added to my plan).

At least for lunches I bring mine to work. I told the girls at the end of the school year I would have the ingredients for theirs, but they will need to assemble theirs; no more buying school lunches (when I was sahm I made all their lunches). It is healthier as you say.

Groceries: places like Shoppers Food Warehouse. I hear they are cheaper, but is the quality close at all?

Yes, piano is expensive, but our teacher is cheaper than some in the area (this is a very affluent area). I know of one person who may be less expensive, but I doubt the girls would take to switching; our teacher is wonderful. I will look into the cheaper teacher.

I *do* believe having lessons/sports is life altering; it isn't just about fun; I teach in a low-income school where kids don't have these experiences; makes a huge difference -- in intellectual development, physical skills and self-discipline. I'd rather live in a 2-3 bedroom condo and continue to have these experiences for the kids. And they don't all happen at once :-). Swim team is in the summer; soccer is spring and fall :-). No so much running around.

Which leads to ... selling the house. I do think that's what's coming. I will remind my real estate agent I need to see what options are available out there so I have a goal in mind to pin my hopes on.

And, depending on how stbx comes through this bankruptcy nightmare I will remind him he owes me 1/2 of these extracurricular expenses. He knows, but without shame he hands the piano teacher *my* check every month (he takes them to piano).

Thanks again!

M

[1growingsprout]

Your piano lessons are $4200/year.... you cant afford it, plain and simple....
You cant afford the house, plain and simple, you cant afford soccer and swim team... The kids will adjust quicker then you think... honestly its the adults that have difficultly adjusting....
Seek out free activites at your library, do crafts at home, kick around the soccer ball at the park with your kids for FREE... pack lunches at night so all you have to do is 'grab and go' in the am..

It sounds like you have 2 girls... You can sell the house and rent a 2br 1bath apt just fine and probably save tons of money on rent and utilites...

[Thystle]

I COMPLETELY agree with Satori and 1growingsprout. I also second NEVER budgeting with child support as too many moms have been burned this way.



These changes are hard for YOU to make, not your kids. Kids adjust well with love. Most of the planet does not have these "extras" and many fine people and leaders have come from it. It does not mean they will never have another class in their life, but right now you CANNOT afford it. Period.


It is down to choices... you are choosing wants over needs. I know that is hard to hear and even admit/accept inside yourself.





I am sorry for your divorce!

[mnnice]

Originally Posted by Thystle

These changes are hard for YOU to make, not your kids. Kids adjust well with love. Most of the planet does not have these "extras" and many fine people and leaders have come from it. It does not mean they will never have another class in their life, but right now you CANNOT afford it. Period.

It is down to choices... you are choosing wants over needs. I know that is hard to hear and even admit/accept inside yourself.

I am sorry for your divorce!

I think the divorce does make it harder emotionally. My family is facing possibily moving because of a lay off. I would have not an ounce of guilt about uprooting my seven year old from school if either DH or I found a full time job that we liked in a community we liked. Honestly, if you can find a townhome in a decent school district and your kids will have still be near their dad go for it. Doing it three years from now when they are 10 and 13 will be harder (for them) and you most likely will have burnt through some of your assets in the process.

[mightymoo]

I understand how you feel about the piano. I was telling DH the other day that my biggest problem with budgeting is that I seem to continue to collect activities that I feel are really good for the kids and it adds up fast.

I would put a hold on piano lessons for now. Don't look at it like its a forever thing, just until things are more stable. I would also tell STBX this - that you cannot afford to pay for the lessons on your own and will be putting them on hold until you/he can afford them again.

I am not a single mom, so I'm not speaking from experience, but I do like what others have said about living off your income only, not child support - but remember that means not over-committing yourself, not that you can't spend the child support money. So, I would work to get myself to a livable state on your own income, then when your STBX gives you a child support check, put that money into the 'Piano Lessons' fund or whatever. Just make sure that anything you are spending over and above your salary is something that can be pulled back easily if STBX stops paying.

[readytobedone]

personally i don't think it's a reasonable goal to "stop eating out" when it's something you love. decrease it, limit it, yes--cut it out? no. unless you literally cannot afford it, that's not going to work as a goal IMO.

i know what you mean. i too love eating out. i've found as i become a better cook, eating out is less appealing. however, there are some really good restaurants in my area! so...we're just trying to cut our restaurant budget by about 1/3.

as for the grocery bill, my best advice is to shop the perimeter of the store--meat, produce, dairy, frozen veggies, and fruit. if you go somewhere like whole foods, shop the bulk bins for your grains and pastas, as well as nuts and dried fruit.

as much as possible, make things from scratch--including desserts and breads. in the short run it may cost more as you are stocking your pantry, but in the longrun i think you'll be surprised how much you can save! stuff like boxed cereal is absurdly expensive compared to, say, cooking your own oatmeal.

not to mention, cooking from scratch is way healthier, and though it sounds exhausting, you get more efficient at it and it gets easier.

also, meal planning--i have done a weekly meal planning thing for awhile. i look at what's on sale that i'm interested in at the regular grocery and at whole foods, i buy stuff, and then i make a plan for each night of the week. i write the menu on a board in our kitchen (so sunday is homemade pizza with spinach, ricotta, basil, and peppers; monday is tilapia with curried quinoa and kale), and i stick to the menu. we eat leftovers for lunch often.