Question on checking titers

[stacey05]

Hi. I am thinking of using Dr. Sherri Tenpenny's site to order a lab slip to have my lo's titers for hib checked.

He hasn't been vaccinated and his almost 2. He is still breastfed and not in daycare, but has 4 older siblings. I have read the bf'ing helps build antibodies to hib. I really don't understand it all.

So, I was thinking I would check to see if he shows any immunity to hib at all. But, I don't know what to do with that information. If he shows immunity (could he without the vaccine?...from bf'ing or maybe naturally coming into contact with it), then I will breathe a sigh of relief. BUT, if he doesn't show antibodies...what then? I don't really know what that means...does that mean if he comes in contact with it, it will go bad because he can't fight it? Or does that just mean he doesn't have the antibodies/immunity, but could develop it if he come in contact with it and his body would possibly just deal with it and it wouldn't go invasive? I wish I had a degree in immunology or something. I read and read and feel like I go around in circles and still don't understand. That bothers me...I feel like I need to understand this to make an informed decision about this vax. I lean towards not getting it because he has been very healthy and is still breastfed. I also feel like I have an opportunity to check his titers and if I don't and he were to come down with it (invasive), then I didn't do everything I could have done. OR am I missing something altogether about the whole titers thing? Sorry, I am very confused! Hope someone can clear this up for me.

Thanks,

[Marnica]

Quite frankly I think having titres checked are only good if one selectively vaccinates and hopes that a adequate titre level on any vax would be enough to get out of getting a booster shot for school.

A low titer count does not indicate susceptibility to a disease just as a high titer count has nothing to do with immunity to a particular disease. IMO the most important factor in a fully-effective immune response is general good health characterized by a clean bloodstream and a good diet. Immunity to a disease depends on a complex response of the body’s cells which may or may not include the production of antibodies. A titer test typically measures only one aspect of the immune system’s response. n antibody response does not necessarily equate to immunity. Also thelevel of antibody needed for effective immunity is different in each individual....immunity can be demonstrated in individuals with a low or no detectable levels of antibody. Similarly in other individuals with higher levels of antibody there may be no immunity.

Raymond Obomsawin, MD wrote: "

[W]e find that upon investigating unexpected and unexplainable outbreaks of acute infection among ‘immunized’ persons, mainstream scientists have begun to seriously question whether their understanding of what constitutes reliable immunity is in fact valid. For example, a team of scientists writing in the New England Journal of Medicine provide evidence for the position that immunity to disease is a broader bio-ecological question than the factors of artificial immunization or serology. They summarily concluded: ‘It is important to stress that immunity (or its absence) cannot be determined reliable on the basis of history of the disease, history of immunization, or even history of prior serologic determination.’

Also lets say your LO was exposed to HI bacteria type B....this can manifest as an ear infection, an eye infection, other things that are easily treatable. If your child is healthy and has a robust immune system, it is doubtful that this would become invasive. Your LO is also not in any of the high risk categories from what you describe. I think getting titres checked at this point in his life would be a waste of money.

[alegna]

Yeah... I see no point in titers unless you're using them to get out of vaxes. No one is really sure exactly what they mean.

-Angela

[emma1325]

I had my daughter's titers checked and she wasn't "immune enough" to anything we checked her for. (She was partially vaccinated.) We didn't use Dr. Sherri's lab, though, we used our pediatrician, and I feel a bit skeptical of the results.

We only checked because we live in MS which has no non-medical exemptions. We thought we might be able to squeeze her into school with positive titer results. We have since decided to relocate to Texas (which has philosophical exemptions) where my husband has accepted a great job offer. :

I wouldn't check titers unless I had the money to spend and was really curious. I am curious to know if my 4 year old (unvaccinated) has developed any detectable immunity to the diseases, but not enough to spend the money for it, as it can be quite expensive. IF we were planning to vaccinate or not based on the results, we would go ahead with the testing.

[stacey05]

Thanks for the replies so far. My husband is military and they will check titers at the lab for hib (free). My son isn't vaccinated and I just wondered if he could possibly have antibodies to hib from bf'ing or natural exposure? I also thought if he did show antibodies, that would be a good thing, right? I don't want to get this test if it really won't mean anything...I just thought I might rest a little easier if he showed antibodies??

[Gitti]

Why does hib worry you so? When my kids were small, no one knew anything about any hib bacteria. When they brought the vaccine out they had to educate doctors about the hib (and called it a virus) because it was so rare. In meantime they scared the sh.. out of us just to sell us their miserable immunity destroying concoctions.

Don't let them scare you like that. If you breastfed your child up to the age of 2, there is no need to worry. Most kids have been in contact with the hib bacteria by that age anyway.

Stacey, titers are not 100% reliable nor does it mean immunity.

If your child shows positive titers that could mean that he has been exposed or is actively carrying the bacteria right now and the body is building up a defense. It does NOT mean that he is immune.

If he show no titer results, that could mean he has been exposed and is storing his immunity in a way which does not show up or that he has never been exposed.

imo titers are not worth anything. They don't give you a clear picture of what is going on.

I would only use titers if I had a partially vaccinated child and I were trying to avoid more vaccines. Then I would hope for positive tires but personally would not count on it meaning immunity.

[newmum35]

That is really interesting. I didn't even know you could do that (order yourself online, that is)

Please share the results when you get them I would be curious to know what they say too.

But I'm confused about this line (taken from directlabs.com under the hib test)

Serum antibodies protect against the organism in vitro and protective levels have been established for unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals by radioantigen-binding assays (RABA).

Does this mean the interpretation of the results depend on whether or not the person was vaccinated?

Cause mine had one hib shot before I decided against any more in the series and now I'm curious what that would mean for his results.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by newmum35

That is really interesting. I didn't even know you could do that (order yourself online, that is)

Please share the results when you get them I would be curious to know what they say too.

But I'm confused about this line (taken from directlabs.com under the hib test)




Does this mean the interpretation of the results depend on whether or not the person was vaccinated?

Cause mine had one hib shot before I decided against any more in the series and now I'm curious what that would mean for his results.

what I take this to mean is that lab tests have shown that having antibodies offers some protection against HIB and that levels at which that protection kicks in so to speak have been demonstrated in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. It doesn't state whether or not those levels differ depending on vaccination status.