Bipolar and my 3 year old

[mommyoftim]

My son was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder a few months ago. I am really scared about all the medication they are putting him on. We have already tried Trileptal, Abilify, Zyprexa and now he is on Depakote. She is also giving him sleeping meds that from what I can find out about is a blood pressure medication used for sleep.He had what his doctor calls a rage that lasted 8.5 hours and my husband and I had to switch off holding him down because if we let him go he comes after me and only me. I have been bitten more times than I can count. Bedtime is a complete nightmare. He has an appointment on tuesday and I am going to discuss doing something else. I just don't know what to do the depakote says it causes liver damage. Help does anyone out there have a Child that has been diagnosed with bipolar and is taking meds to control it. How is it working and does it seem to be a good thing or would he be better off not taking anything. I also have bipolar disorder with anxiety. I know I suffered with the illness for many years and don't wnat him to but I really don't know what else to do. I am going crazy and so is my sons step dad. I am starting to feel like I am harming my child.

[Satori]

I think I need clarification, your 3 year old was dx'd as bipolar? I didn't think that was even possible. Autsim yes, bipolar no. If I'm not misunderstanding then you might want to consider a 2nd opinion. Other then that I don't have any real advice. My 8 yr old was dx'd with bipolar 1 a few months ago and we had great success with Risperdal (dd had horrid rages, violent, mostly mania, only slept 2-3 hours a night) then added clonidine as needed for the much less often rages. We had to stop due to stomach issues but it was great while it lasted. We started lamictal yesterday.

[KatWrangler]

I am not sure about children and bipolar. My husband was just diagnosed with bipolar II a couple of weeks ago. He is now on Celexa and Invega. He is also in therapy.

I agree with Satori, I would get a 2nd opinion.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

In terms of side effects, I would definitely choose Depakote over Abilify or Zyprexa, both of which can have some pretty bad side effects that often you don't know are happening until after they've, permanently, occurred. Depakote is usually monitored and there is warning ahead of time that the liver is starting to be affected, enough time to wean off and start something else. I have seen people start to develop liver damage, but that was only after 25+ years of constant use (for seizure disorder).

Of the mood stabilizers, I would choose Depakote first, and lithium the very last.

If the blood pressure med is the one I am thinking of (Enderol or Inderal or propranolol), its perfectly safe and I have never heard of any side effects. It doesn't have much of an effect and only kicks in to prevent adrenaline surges. So it might help to prevent rage and anxiety attacks. But wouldn't make him sleepy.

He is awfully young to be diagnosed as bipolar, but the meds they are choosing could help with many other diagnoses that involve rages. So I'm not sure the label matters at this age, its more about finding the med regime that works. It makes sense to try a mood stabilizer after a trial of major tranquilizers didn't help much, rather than go to yet another major trank. I'm surprised they didn't try Risperdal before Zyprexa (I'm surprised they tried Zyprexa at all, really, given its potential side effects). You could probably suggest Risperdal if you are uncomfortable with the Depakote.

[mommyoftim]

Reply to all

He is seeing my psych doctor she specializes and young children as well as adults. I have been seeing her for six years so we have a pretty good repore. I had resently taken resperdal and was hospitalize so she didn't want to try it with him. I had also taken limictal and had serious reaction. She figured it was best to try things that have worked for me. We will not even try lithium I am against that to. But as far as the diagnoses I think she just associated with me having bipolar and his dad and he is having alot of the same side effects. So do you guys think it is better to give the meds then not to. He is going to spend three days with grandma and she said she refuses to give him meds so I don't know what else to do. I have read some on autism and was wondering if it could be more that but wouldn't they give basicly the same meds.

[UptownZoo]

First, huge hugs to you. This is a hard, hard road to walk.

Carter, my youngest, is almost 7 and has very recently been dx'd with bipolar. However, he has been symptomatic since birth (or even before; egad, being pregnant with that child was PAINFUL the way he kicked and thrashed).

I don't think it's better to medicate or withhold medication. I think it's best to make careful choices based on a cost/benefit analysis. It's wrong to medicate a child willy-nilly, caution to the winds, but it's also wrong to let a child suffer with symptoms because of fear. My son takes lots of meds (clonidine, trileptal, trazodone, ritalin, plus the meds he takes for allergies/asthma and reflux, and those are just the current ones; he's taken a dozen or so others over the years) and we take that very seriously. These are powerful drugs with potentially serious side effects. Whenever possible, we start with tiny doses and very slowly go up, monitoring him closely every step of the way.

Not medicating is not an option for us. Life is an unbearable misery for Carter and everyone around him if his illness is left unmedicated. He hates himself, hurts himself, talks about suicide, has horrifying rages, hurts other people, cries for hours on end, etc. Typical bipolar child stuff, but it's anything but typical when you're experiencing it. Medicated, he's not an easy child, and I wouldn't say he has a sunny disposition, but things become infinitely more manageable. We can work on skills for handling anger because he doesn't spiral out of control quite so quickly.

As for such a young diagnosis, I think that the family history has as much to do with that as anything. If you think you can get him an autism dx, even if it later turns out to be incorrect, go for it. I don't know what it's like where you are, but in our school district, there's much more available for kiddos on the spectrum than for kids with other problems. That pisses me off no end (Carter is much more disabled by his condition than any of the kids with mild/moderate autism that I know), but it's the reality here. Carter urgently needs a day treatment program, but the good one is for autistic kids only. The one that he qualifies for is like baby bootcamp and we won't even consider it. :

Oops. Didn't mean to get all soapbox-y there. I want autistic kids to get everything they need. I want kids with other problems to get their needs met, too!

[PikkuMyy]

One of my former students has been on Depakote for 8 years without any liver issues. They check the levels in his blood every few months and monitor the dosage based on his weight and blood levels.

[KatWrangler]

Originally Posted by mommyoftim

He is seeing my psych doctor she specializes and young children as well as adults. I have been seeing her for six years so we have a pretty good repore. I had resently taken resperdal and was hospitalize so she didn't want to try it with him. I had also taken limictal and had serious reaction. She figured it was best to try things that have worked for me. We will not even try lithium I am against that to. But as far as the diagnoses I think she just associated with me having bipolar and his dad and he is having alot of the same side effects. So do you guys think it is better to give the meds then not to. He is going to spend three days with grandma and she said she refuses to give him meds so I don't know what else to do. I have read some on autism and was wondering if it could be more that but wouldn't they give basicly the same meds.

That makes sense! I know they keep asking my husband if anyone in his family had mental health issues. I asked my ILs and my MIL piped up, yes Grandma K was depressed and took meds (this would of been my FIL Mom). Well my FIL is in denial and said no she didn't. But I am sticking with my MIL that she did. So that would explain the family link.

Also, my husband said he knew something was wrong with him as far back as elementary school. That he had episodes of depression then.

[DoulaVallere]

My DH is a child psychiatrist and he absolutely believes that you can NOT diagnose bipolar in a child that young. He gets really upset when doctors slap that diagnosis on a little kid and put them on multiple medications, all of which can interact, and few of which have had long term studies carried out in young children. He has treated more than one child who is in the midst of fall out from multiple medications from such a diagnosis and has tried to clean up the mess other doctors have made. He had one child absolutely psychotic from the meds...he was literally bouncing off the walls and masturbating in the exam room...this was about a 6 yo boy.

I would absolutely get a second opinion. Try to see a child psychiatrist (not psychologist) who works in a university setting or teaching hospital, as they are generally much more up to date on recent studies and treatment options.

I'm not saying that there is not something in your child that needs treatment, but bipolar is a teen/adult diagnosis and I would be very wary of someone who decided to diagnose a 3yo with such a serious lable.

Also, curious as to whether you've tried something more natural like melatonin for the sleep issues?

[joensally]

Originally Posted by mommyoftim

He is seeing my psych doctor she specializes and young children as well as adults. I have been seeing her for six years so we have a pretty good repore. I had resently taken resperdal and was hospitalize so she didn't want to try it with him. I had also taken limictal and had serious reaction. She figured it was best to try things that have worked for me. We will not even try lithium I am against that to. But as far as the diagnoses I think she just associated with me having bipolar and his dad and he is having alot of the same side effects. So do you guys think it is better to give the meds then not to. He is going to spend three days with grandma and she said she refuses to give him meds so I don't know what else to do. I have read some on autism and was wondering if it could be more that but wouldn't they give basicly the same meds.

I would strongly suggest getting a second opinion re diagnosis, and get a team regarding the meds, including a pharmacist.

As for grandma, it's not an option to take him off the meds if he's going to go right back on them when he comes home. They won't be out of his system in the time he's there, but he'll have to re-build his levels when he gets back. That's just wrong, imo, therapeutically.

I would explore autism in a child so young - it's so hard to tell at such a developmentally young age, and there are services for children with autism, whereas meds seem to be the primary focus with a mental health diagnosis. Family history does increase the likelihood of it being bipolar, but doesn't mean it is bipolar. Do you have access to other qualified, experienced professionals? It may be a differential diagnosis, not simply "bipolar = meds." An autism diagnosis does not = meds.

note: I'm not going against giving him meds, but I'd want to be more certain that a) it is bipolar; and b) the cocktail is the right one for him and is being fully monitored with a close eye to risks and side-effects.

Hugs to you, Mama, this must be so very hard.

[Thystle]

My oldest son is bipolar.



My husband was misdiagnosed ad bipolar all of his life. He is actually autistic as is my second child.




The autistic "tantrums/rages" are so VERY similar to the bipolar anger.



PLEASE get a second opinion on the BP and have your child evaluated for an autism spectrum disorder before medicating.






Most autism spectrum people do NOT take meds. Giving pysch meds to someone who does not need them can have dire consequences!! It can even cause a "worse" rage.







On a side note... my son did not react well to Depakote. He also gained 30 pounds in 3 months on it when he was 10. :

[aintlifesosweet]

Misdiagnosis can lead to suicide attempts

I was misdiagnosed as BiPolar Axis one at 15 and put on a cocktail of medications. I tried to kill myself 4 times (non-attention seeking, ended in the ER hanging on by a thread) before age 20. This would not have happened had I not had all these medications, including Lithium, Lamictal, Depakote and a few others you have named. My mother used to hold me down to make me take the meds and I now have a severed relationship with her.

I have since been diagnosed with a clean bill of mental health. I am gifted, and my more recent doctor believes that many mental health issues that are diagnosed in children are usually wrong, especially among the gifted.

I would seriously consider another opinion. Those medications ruined 5 years of my life, including all of high school.

[Alenushka]

My older son is gifted and had Bipolar disorder. Like mnay before me I read Misdiagnosed hoping that all my sons diffiuclties were realted to his giftedness. Imagine my sadness at the end of the book when it was clera to me, jsut like to his docotr, that my 10 yo is mentally ill. At first he was on Abilify that we found very helpfull. ALong with MEtformin to prevent metabolic side effects. Then Abilify was not as effective and Lithiumwas added. Abilify was slosly remove and now only used during stong manic episodes. Lithium ah sbeen very effective iwth the minimum side effect so far. Of course, we have to have regualr blood draws. There is some hand tremor.

My son is in a therapeutic shcool and it is really great for him

[Kailey's mom]

I don't want to make you mad by saying this, but I really think you need to get a 2nd, 3rd.. however many opinions you need to find out what is going on. I really don't think it can be bipolar d/o. Autism, Aspergers, Sensory integration, O.D.D., etc.. which are all developmental d/o's . Have you taken him to a developmental ped? What are his symptoms, besides the biting?

[*EarthMama*]

Originally Posted by joensally

I would strongly suggest getting a second opinion re diagnosis, and get a team regarding the meds, including a pharmacist.

As for grandma, it's not an option to take him off the meds if he's going to go right back on them when he comes home. They won't be out of his system in the time he's there, but he'll have to re-build his levels when he gets back. That's just wrong, imo, therapeutically.

I would explore autism in a child so young - it's so hard to tell at such a developmentally young age, and there are services for children with autism, whereas meds seem to be the primary focus with a mental health diagnosis. Family history does increase the likelihood of it being bipolar, but doesn't mean it is bipolar. Do you have access to other qualified, experienced professionals? It may be a differential diagnosis, not simply "bipolar = meds." An autism diagnosis does not = meds.

note: I'm not going against giving him meds, but I'd want to be more certain that a) it is bipolar; and b) the cocktail is the right one for him and is being fully monitored with a close eye to risks and side-effects.

Hugs to you, Mama, this must be so very hard.

I completely agree. You NEED to get a second opinion, for your child's sake. It would not hurt and it may help you find the answers you need.

[bebebradford]

Momma.. get another opinion. That's almost scary for your doctor to diagnose a child that young when they cannot even understand or fully express their feelings. I'm bipolar myself, been medicated for years. I think there is a chance our children could end up with it.. but if a doctor told me my THREE year old (yes, I have a three year old too! )was bipolar I would get another doctor. No way.. no how. My child has extreme moods, but he's THREE.. It's too early to determine such a serious illness. There is no way in HADES I would have my child on any serious bipolar medications at his age. I wish you luck.. but IMO I would be looking other places for medical issues as well.

[Heavenly]

Guys, this thread is over 6 months old - why has this been bumped up?

[blessedwithboys]

dont know why it was resurrected, but i am really disturbed by all of the misinformation and misunderstanding regarding pediatric onset BPD. OP, if youre still around, please visit bpkids.org or bpkids.com, not sure which it is.

oh, and i am a big believer in 2nd opinions, but to say that a 3yo is too young to be dx w/BPD is just WRONG.

[Heavenly]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys

dont know why it was resurrected, but i am really disturbed by all of the misinformation and misunderstanding regarding pediatric onset BPD. OP, if youre still around, please visit bpkids.org or bpkids.com, not sure which it is.

oh, and i am a big believer in 2nd opinions, but to say that a 3yo is too young to be dx w/BPD is just WRONG.

I agree with you completely. It is amazing how much people who don't have any experience with pediatric bipolar disorder think they know.

[KatWrangler]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys

dont know why it was resurrected, but i am really disturbed by all of the misinformation and misunderstanding regarding pediatric onset BPD. OP, if youre still around, please visit bpkids.org or bpkids.com, not sure which it is.

oh, and i am a big believer in 2nd opinions, but to say that a 3yo is too young to be dx w/BPD is just WRONG.

Well NAMI says age 6. What studies show as young as 3? Educate us, don't berate us.

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sec...ontentID=70802

Can children and adolescents get bipolar disorder?
Bipolar disorder can occur in children and adolescents and has been investigated by federally funded teams in children as young as age 6.