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post #21 of 97
Thread Starter 
I have just heard such horror stories about shelters, I really don't feel that is the best option for me. I will talk to them though, and look into my options. Not to mention, he is so UNINVOLVED and uninterested that I rather just deal with his crap for 5 or 10 minutes a day then risk the effect a shelter would have on my kids.

I tried talking to him about it last night - not about leaving just about our problems- and he seemed really upset and said he was trying and I told him that I've seen him try before. Really all he did was make excuses, some of which involved blaming me. He says he does want to spend time with the family but can't figure out how. I don't know whats wrong with him, really. Thanks for all the kind words and support.

We'll see what he is like today, I am going to talk to him about working. I asked my friend if i could stay with her for a bit if I needed, which I didn't want to, but she said yea for a little while. Thanks again.
post #22 of 97
Yikes momma!

If you want something he buys it for you???? He gives you a credit card to use then you have to give it back????

I am a SAHM and my husband is the money provider, but we each get a monthly budget of spending money for ourselves. He values that I work hard every day.

You are definitely in an abusive relationship. Maybe you could find another momma in a similar situation needing a roommate? I have seen ads in craigslist like this before. They usually trade childcare when working opposite shifts.

Good luck-
post #23 of 97
Playing devil's advocate here for a moment... Could it be that your DH is depressed or has another issue of the like going on? And from his prepective he really is trying?
post #24 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
I have just heard such horror stories about shelters, I really don't feel that is the best option for me. I will talk to them though, and look into my options. Not to mention, he is so UNINVOLVED and uninterested that I rather just deal with his crap for 5 or 10 minutes a day then risk the effect a shelter would have on my kids.

I tried talking to him about it last night - not about leaving just about our problems- and he seemed really upset and said he was trying and I told him that I've seen him try before. Really all he did was make excuses, some of which involved blaming me. He says he does want to spend time with the family but can't figure out how. I don't know whats wrong with him, really. Thanks for all the kind words and support.

We'll see what he is like today, I am going to talk to him about working. I asked my friend if i could stay with her for a bit if I needed, which I didn't want to, but she said yea for a little while. Thanks again.
A shelter saved my life. I didn't stay there, they got me in touch with a lawyer who helped me get a restraining order against my husband and an occupation order which required him to leave the house. They provided play therapy for my sons, a listening ear for me, and so much besides. Please don't make assumptions, give them a chance.

OK, if that's out what happens if you tell him you're getting a job because you want some financial independence?
post #25 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cativari View Post
Playing devil's advocate here for a moment... Could it be that your DH is depressed or has another issue of the like going on? And from his prepective he really is trying?

I wonder the same thing. OP mentions that things weren't always like this and there had been good times.

Were the times really "good" and something changed? If so, maybe there are mental health issues going on.

Or were those times just better when compared to the current situation? Which leads me to...

OP also mentions her husband's drinking. I would consider peeing in drawers to qaulify as a serious alcohol problem.

Is he still drinking or did he stop? Addiction comes along with lots of undesirable behaviors and in my experience, abuse and control are two biggies.

If he never addressed his other issues, quitting drinking solves very little and in a way, may magnify other issues that formerly hovered below the surface.
post #26 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cativari View Post
Playing devil's advocate here for a moment... Could it be that your DH is depressed or has another issue of the like going on? And from his prepective he really is trying?
I really think so, but I don't know what to do if he wont get help for it?? I don't even know that divorce is the answer, but I think we need time apart until he can get himself back to normal.
post #27 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack View Post
A shelter saved my life. I didn't stay there, they got me in touch with a lawyer who helped me get a restraining order against my husband and an occupation order which required him to leave the house. They provided play therapy for my sons, a listening ear for me, and so much besides. Please don't make assumptions, give them a chance.

OK, if that's out what happens if you tell him you're getting a job because you want some financial independence?
It's not the shelter I'm worried about, its the other people staying there. I have no apprehensions about calling them, I just really don't think that going there is better for my children. If I thought it was, I'd go there for sure. If it were just me, I'd probably just up and go, but I have to do what I know is best for them, which makes the issue harder.
post #28 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caneel View Post
I wonder the same thing. OP mentions that things weren't always like this and there had been good times.

Were the times really "good" and something changed? If so, maybe there are mental health issues going on.
There were REALLY good times. He has also played a huge role in healing me from my past. This is not the man I married right now. I do think he is depressed or something. Also he hasn't been eating well and his weight it really up, and he's really tired all the time... so I think depression is a possibility.


Quote:
OP also mentions her husband's drinking. I would consider peeing in drawers to qaulify as a serious alcohol problem.

Is he still drinking or did he stop? Addiction comes along with lots of undesirable behaviors and in my experience, abuse and control are two biggies.
He doesn't drink anymore. Sometimes he has the occasional drink with me, but honestly I drink more then he does and he's always very pleasant when he drinks. We drink at home.. it was only when he went out drinking that he got carried away. At the time he had the drinking problem he was really depressed too. And I haven't been a perfect angel to him either, after what happened with my friend and him (which was at the same time as his drinking problem) I was really hurt and I was hurtful back towards him. We got through it, he doesn't drink anymore, but it's definitely not a fully healed situation on my part I must admit. But, anyway, he did stop drinking and it's been about 3 years since that all occurred, so I'm pretty confident it's in the past. his dad is an alcoholic and I know he doesn't want to be like that.

Quote:
If he never addressed his other issues, quitting drinking solves very little and in a way, may magnify other issues that formerly hovered below the surface.
this could be it. I know this sounds crazy, but I think he has post partum depression. He always is at his worst after we have a baby...
post #29 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
Ideally, we could work out our problems, but its been years and the problems keeping coming back and its worse every time.
I have read the whole thread. I think your name should be on the checking account and the house, but other than that this is within the range of normal (crummy, bummer situation end but still) for a family with three kids so close in age and so young on one income. Not good, things need to be worked on, but not anywhere NEAR divorce him time IMO. If you didn't have kids, sure - walk anytime you want. But when you make babies, I think you have a responsibility to work a lot harder to get through the hard times. And raising a 4, 3 and 1 year old - that is tough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post
From what you have described, I would advise you to go to a shelter. Now.
It is so interesting how our personal experiences affect our perception. I read the same words in this thread and thought "definitely can work this out" and someone else reads the same words and thinks "shelter. Now." He threw a toy (she admits not violently; the window breaking was an accident). What else are we basing the shelter rec on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
There were REALLY good times. He has also played a huge role in healing me from my past. This is not the man I married right now. I do think he is depressed or something. Also he hasn't been eating well and his weight it really up, and he's really tired all the time... so I think depression is a possibility.

He doesn't drink anymore. Sometimes he has the occasional drink with me, but honestly I drink more then he does and he's always very pleasant when he drinks. We drink at home. At the time he had the drinking problem he was really depressed too. And I haven't been a perfect angel to him either, after what happened with my friend and him (which was at the same time as his drinking problem) I was really hurt and I was hurtful back towards him. We got through it, he doesn't drink anymore, but it's definitely not a fully healed situation on my part I must admit. But, anyway, he did stop drinking and it's been about 3 years since that all occurred, so I'm pretty confident it's in the past.

I know this sounds crazy, but I think he has post partum depression. He always is at his worst after we have a baby...
This is the first thing I thought (not PPD but hard after another baby). Three kids so close together is a LOT of stress. He is solely responsible for keeping a roof over your heads. I'd assume you are pretty busy taking care of kids, so no time for each other. You admit you are not fully healed from his cheating (which clearly is wrong on his part - but again, not shelter now worthy IMO).

In your first posts, it sounds like you'd rather be right than happy. You said you weren't going to be nice to him if he isn't nice to you. Someone has to be nice first. I know it is hard when you are mad at him. I've been where you are - really. It can turn around; it really can.
post #30 of 97
Today he told me he needs me to either be nice to him, leave him alone, or for our son to stop being retarded

Okay---tell him that by leaving, and taking the kids with you, that you are "leaving him alone", exactly what he wants. He can't argue with that, can he?

In listening to all of this, I can't help but wonder if he is clinically depressed. The history of alcohol abuse, his increasingly aggravated behavior and disrespect toward you are all signs of depression. (Did he go to rehab, or AA, or did he just stop drinking? If you don't know what a "dry drunk" is, Google it. You can quit drinking, but if you don't deal with the underlying issues that made you drink in the first place, the only thing you did was stop drinking---but you're still a miserable person and nothing has changed.) You say that you married a wonderful man, and what happened to him? Perhaps he is totally stressed out with having to work so much and not being able to do anything he likes to do either. Maybe the finances are bad, and since you don't pay bills or balance the checkbook you don't know about it. You are seeing things from your side of the fence---things may be completely different on his side of the fence. I don't know how long you have been married, but there is truth to things like the "7 year itch"---not that I condone having affairs or anything else---but, it seems that after a certain amount of time both parties become unhappy and unsatisfied with their relationship and marriage, especially when kids come along. When a man is no longer a woman's priority, and suddenly children are, it can make them act very bizarre. Also, when a woman loses her identity and a mother is all she is, and she "loses" her sexuality and her feeling of being "productive" in society, it affects her too---I have seen this A LOT with SAHM. A relationship takes effort and work---that infatuation and passion you had when you first met and got married can't last without some work on both sides. And, as much as we hate it, relationships do change. Maybe he is suffering from major stressors too, and you just don't know about it. Perhaps his coping mechanisms just aren't there and he needs some help---we all need help sometimes. And, as much as I hate to say this---how are you acting in the marriage? Are you kind? Are you patient? You say that you "turn the other cheek", but that doesn't mean that you are being the person that you want him to be, and often we don't see in ourselves what other people see. It sounds like he is very unhappy too--and you need to find out WHY he is miserable. Maybe he is uncomfortable confronting you about something. Maybe he is embarrassed about something. Who knows? There are all kinds of reason that people are unhappy.

HOWEVER---the other things, like having complete control over the money, "lending" you the credit card for groceries, you having to "ask" him for something and then having him buy it for you.......this is a VERY controlling situation, and also a form of abuse. Why should you have to ask him for ANYTHING, unless it is a major purchase like a car or furniture or something? You have to "ask" him to buy you underwear or bras? Makeup? Shoes? These are the very things that a woman needs "mad money" for!! What about stuff for the kids? Do you have to "ask" him to buy clothes and shoes for the kids? I don't know how you do it---I could NEVER live like that. Good Lord---I would freak out, as a matter of fact. NO MAN is going to tell me that I can't buy a new pair of shoes or a tube of mascara!! And, I am certainly not going to ASK him if I can.

I suspect you have "marred" credit......however, if that incident of the bank overdraft happened 5 years ago, you should be able to open a checking account now. Some banks require that you open savings and checking accounts, but 5 years should be enough time. Maybe not for the "big" banks, but there are smaller, regional banks that are not as tough as the "big" banks. There are also other ways to open an account---there are VISA cards that are "secured" that you can open up online. You might bot be able to pay rent with it, but it can act like a checking account if you want to buy something. If you can find one that reports to the 3 major credit bureaus, you can begin re-building your own credit. Having him controlling the credit cards and money is not going to help you build your own credit.

If he really does love you , and wants to make it work and wants to "try", then ask him to help you start building your own credit profile. It has ALWAYS been my own belief that even if you are happily married, in a stable relationship or whatever, you should always maintain your own "independence"---have your own bank accounts, maintain a good credit profile, be able to manage your own "money", whether that be money you make from working or just your own "mad money". You need to maintain some sort of financial independence to feel good about yourself---having someone else controlling every penny you spend is not a good way to live (unless you are completely out of control with money and can't go out with any money in your pocket or else you spend it, and usually on stupid stuff, and then it might be a good idea to have someone "monitoring" the spending). I see women do this pretty often---they leave the financial stuff to their husband, thinking that it is one less stress they have to deal with. However---if you ever have to leave for whatever reason, you are suddenly in a bind with no money or credit cards or any ability to "get away". And, your husband knows you have no money and can't go anywhere. Maybe that is his way of "holding on" to you. And, I don't have any idea what your sexual life is like, and frankly it is none of my business, but think about how he is when it comes to that----and you will quickly be able to see if he is just "controlling" you and manipulating you for his benefit. If it were me, I know that I wouldn't be so willing to have sex with my partner if he was rude and disrespectful to me, mean to my kids or just generally an a**hole all the time. That doesn't make me want to be with someone, and claims of "I love you, I'll try harder, I was just in a bad mood" only go so far and can only be used so many times in the bedroom for him to get what he wants. That kind of stuff doesn't fly with me. However---you need to re-gain some of who you "are", and not be "controlled" and have your identity defined by your husband and your kids.

And, from what I have read, you have "threatened" to leave before---and his "fine, get out" response was based on the fact that he knows he controls the finances and he knows you don't have the means to "get out". Plus---a response like that I assume came during or after a fight. Discussing splitting up is usually one that should be done with a level head---or as level a head as you can have when you are talking about separating, not yelling at one another and threatening to leave and then having the other person yelling "GET OUT"..........that never results in a good situation.

Furthermore (and I am SOO sorry that this has turned out to be such a long-winded post), waiting to see what he is going to be like "today" or "tomorrow" is not the way to live your life either. You want to be able to count on what he is going to be like 20 years from now. Everybody has bad days, too. But--waiting and anticipating what his mood is going to be like is stress inducing in and of itself------I lived with something like that in a relationship. You should not have to wonder what his mood will be on any given day, if he is going to wake up pissed off, sad, happy, whatever.

If you are so miserable that you think there is no hope whatsoever, then the only thing to do is discuss a separation with him---with level heads. Discuss the how's and why's. Talk about WHY you want to leave, and let him say his part too. Maybe if you sit him down and tell him that you want to leave will induce him to talk, because he will be up against the wall, so to speak. And, don't let him say "I'll try". "I'll try" is a lame copout---what is he going to "try" to do, exactly? You need to lay down EXACTLY what you want changed and what you want help with. You need to tell him EXACTLY what behaviors of his make you want to leave him and what behaviors you ABSOLUTELY will not tolerate. You need to tell him what YOU need help with--you posted about "marital pet peeves"---so, nothing speaks faster than not having clothes to wear because the clothes did not get into the hamper. Your job is not to pick his clothes up off the floor, his job is to make sure he gets his dirty clothes into the hamper. Your job is not turning his clothes right-side-in, that is his job to make sure his clothes are put on the right way and not backwards. NOTHING speaks louder than actions. Acting like a maid is not your job either. Being a SAHM to 3 young children is a lot of work---you don't need a husband that is a child too. My policy is that I say something once, and if he doesn't listen, I tell him once more in a more forceful way. After that, if the behavior doesn't change, then MY behavior changes!! No more picking his clothes up off the floor to wash them--they stay on the floor, and when he has no more clean clothes to wear then he will put them in the hamper--and when he asks why he doesn't have clean clothes, then you say "Well, there were no dirty clothes in the hamper to wash". When he gets sick of turning his clothes from inside out to the right way, he will learn to not put them in the hamper inside out.

He needs to get to the bottom of why he is so unhappy and he needs to deal with it and cope with it in healthy manner, whether that means counseling, seeing a psychiatrist, whatever. Having 3 young children is tough--it is tough on a marriage, it is tough on the people themselves, it is it's own stress. But one thing is for sure---you are not his whipping post, and he has no right to take his misery out on you. AND YOU NEED TO BE STRAIGHT WITH HIM AND TELL HIM THIS FLAT OUT. But, you can't just tell him---your actions need to support your statements. Set up something where you can stay with a friend, and when he starts his crap, pick yourself up, pick your kids up, pack a bag with clothes and whatever the kids need (or have one already pre-packed so you don't waste time), take the car keys and go to your friend's house. Don't say anything like "I'm leaving" or anything like that. Just get up and go. When you don't come back to make him dinner, and then don't come back at night, then perhaps that will make him think about what he did to force you to leave, and your statements will now have actions to back them up.

Again. I'm sorry this is so long, but it's hard to make things quick sometimes (and I am pretty long-winded anyway.......LOL)
post #31 of 97
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much Kirsten I appreciate your kind words. It's not that I never try being nice. I try but after a few weeks I just am at my wits end. I KNOW he has to be stressed, his work has been so slow (hes commission) that we've spent $5000 in savings in the last 2 months to cover what he hasnt been making towards bills. And then one of our cars got repod. And honestly, he's never been a "kid person" though he loves our kids, he just doesn't enjoy hanging out with them, and he really struggles with our oldest's special needs, which is hard on me too, but I'm also a more patient person than him, I am around the kids all the time so I know the best way to work with them, and I like all kids, even ones that aren't mine.

Sometimes I know I give him a hard time, but it's kind of tough because its like if he's going to make things harder to try to get me not to ask for his help, I rather he just say no. At the same time, then he wouldn't help me at all, which also bothers me, but that just brings me back to square one where I don't need help if its actually more a hinderance.

To make matters work, he is going to have to go back to working more days to make up for our income problems.

The thing is, I need him to see me as someone he can talk to about things, not someone he can dump his emotions on. He keeps everything to himself and shows his stress by how he treats me instead of talking to me. I think he is jsut trying to be strong and not stress me out by talking about the problems, but at the same time, I rather be stressed about that than upset when he takes it out on me.
post #32 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeMarie View Post
(Did he go to rehab, or AA, or did he just stop drinking? If you don't know what a "dry drunk" is, Google it. You can quit drinking, but if you don't deal with the underlying issues that made you drink in the first place, the only thing you did was stop drinking---but you're still a miserable person and nothing has changed.)
I'll look into that, thanks!


Also, when a woman loses her identity and a mother is all she is, and she "loses" her sexuality and her feeling of being "productive" in society, it affects her too---I have seen this A LOT with SAHM. [/quote]
As for sex - I have no decrease in sex drive since becoming a mother. He is the one who never wants to do it anymore. I have other things I work on too, while it took me a while, I have found myself again as a person other than "mom"
Quote:
And, as much as I hate to say this---how are you acting in the marriage? Are you kind? Are you patient? You say that you "turn the other cheek", but that doesn't mean that you are being the person that you want him to be, and often we don't see in ourselves what other people see. It sounds like he is very unhappy too--and you need to find out WHY he is miserable. Maybe he is uncomfortable confronting you about something. Maybe he is embarrassed about something. Who knows? There are all kinds of reason that people are unhappy.
you are right!

Quote:
HOWEVER---the other things, like having complete control over the money, "lending" you the credit card for groceries, you having to "ask" him for something and then having him buy it for you.......this is a VERY controlling situation, and also a form of abuse. Why should you have to ask him for ANYTHING, unless it is a major purchase like a car or furniture or something? You have to "ask" him to buy you underwear or bras? Makeup? Shoes? These are the very things that a woman needs "mad money" for!! What about stuff for the kids? Do you have to "ask" him to buy clothes and shoes for the kids? I don't know how you do it---I could NEVER live like that. Good Lord---I would freak out, as a matter of fact. NO MAN is going to tell me that I can't buy a new pair of shoes or a tube of mascara!! And, I am certainly not going to ASK him if I can.
one of our past problems, which was my fault, is an addiction to shopping. I get everything I want in the end as far as "stuff" goes, so I don't complain, but he likes to know what and have me wait a while before buying it so my spending doesn't get out of control. Serious shopping problem here, and not talking about the kind that comes with the 'x' chromosome.


Quote:
I have thought about telling him that I think we would both feel better if I had the money to leave. Because then he would know I stay because I want to. But at the same time I dont want him to treat me better just because he knows I could leave if I wanted to. I want him to treat me better because he wants to. I don't want to say "hey do this this and this and I'll feel better" maybe im being silly, but I just feel like the things I want him to do are the things that only mean something if I dont have to tell him to do them...

Quote:
And, from what I have read, you have "threatened" to leave before---and his "fine, get out" response was based on the fact that he knows he controls the finances and he knows you don't have the means to "get out". Plus---a response like that I assume came during or after a fight. Discussing splitting up is usually one that should be done with a level head---or as level a head as you can have when you are talking about separating, not yelling at one another and threatening to leave and then having the other person yelling "GET OUT"..........that never results in a good situation.
yep. we have also separated once before, but that wasn't his fault or because of anything he was doing at the time.

He tells me I don't do anything for him and I've thought of showing him what nothing would look like, but I worry that would result in then him not doing anything for me, and I know he does a lot for me. I don't want to turn it into some stubborn battle thing...
But one thing is for sure---you are not his whipping post, and he has no right to take his misery out on you. AND YOU NEED TO BE STRAIGHT WITH HIM AND TELL HIM THIS FLAT OUT.
I've sad this, but I'm having a hard time showing him...

Thanks for taking the time, your words meant a lot to me
post #33 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten View Post
It is so interesting how our personal experiences affect our perception. I read the same words in this thread and thought "definitely can work this out" and someone else reads the same words and thinks "shelter. Now." He threw a toy (she admits not violently; the window breaking was an accident). What else are we basing the shelter rec on?
I am basing the shelter recommendation on the fact that the OP is afraid to tell her husband she wants to leave because he will throw her out on the street.

He is not entitled to do this. But she believes he can and will. To me this indicates a level of intimidation on her part that is completely unhealthy. (Not to mention the fact that he does not allow her financial independence).
post #34 of 97
Thread Starter 
just no debate please. I understand why some of you recommend shelter and why some dont. we all don't have to agree, its good for me to hear both sides.
post #35 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
just no debate please. I understand why some of you recommend shelter and why some dont. we all don't have to agree, its good for me to hear both sides.
Oh, I wasn't debating, just clarifying to Kirsten.
post #36 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
just no debate please. I understand why some of you recommend shelter and why some dont. we all don't have to agree, its good for me to hear both sides.
Couples therapy really probably should be your first step. I do realize that is easier said than done...
post #37 of 97
It sounds familiar and it's not easy
post #38 of 97
The more I read the more it looks (at least to me) the recent issues are rooted in finanical issues. Money is the number one reason for divorce. Money issues bring out the little cracks in a relationship. I don't know the specifics of your situation with money but it sounds like your money resources are starting to run low and it's causing your husband increased stress and is triggering some major problems. (it's a reason not an excuse for his actions)

Is there anyway you can sit down with him and talk about the posibility of seeking finanical help (foodstamps, temporary money assitance, help with affordable childcare, medical assitance) and maybe having you return to work until business picks up a litttle? I know ideally staying at home would be what both of you might want but in tough times you need to make adjustments even if they are for the short term. Maybe by lifting some of your finanical burdens you and your dh might be able to work on things in a civil way.

Bottom line something needs to change, you and Dh need to communicate calmly and rationally.
post #39 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
I know once I'm on my own I will be fine. I can get temporary assistance if I need it. Getting to that point is th hard part. He gives me a credit card for grocery shopping, so there is no cash to pocket there either..
Is it a credit or debit card? If it's a debit, start embezzling! Get cash back from each and every transaction. It won't show up on your statement. Those 20s will add up.

And my other advice is to NOT leave your house. If your DH tells you to leave, don't. You and the kids deserve to stay in your home. He should be the one to leave and call the police if you need to. I mean, in the situation where you are arguing and he's yelling at you to leave.
post #40 of 97
like flapjack said, if you aren't in physical danger, you may be able to get an attorney to represent you and ask the court for your husband to pay the legal fees later on. you could start with child support and figure out how to get a job as you go. It is probably a one-way road though, no coming back if you find it difficult
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