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Help Please - Page 3

post #41 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post
Oh, I wasn't debating, just clarifying to Kirsten.
oh I know I just didnt want it to start heading that way so I thought it better to say something before it did, thats all. probaly would have anyway, but im sure you can understand why id like to avoid the chance of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cativari View Post
The more I read the more it looks (at least to me) the recent issues are rooted in finanical issues. Money is the number one reason for divorce. Money issues bring out the little cracks in a relationship. I don't know the specifics of your situation with money but it sounds like your money resources are starting to run low and it's causing your husband increased stress and is triggering some major problems. (it's a reason not an excuse for his actions)

Is there anyway you can sit down with him and talk about the posibility of seeking finanical help (foodstamps, temporary money assitance, help with affordable childcare, medical assitance) and maybe having you return to work until business picks up a litttle? I know ideally staying at home would be what both of you might want but in tough times you need to make adjustments even if they are for the short term. Maybe by lifting some of your finanical burdens you and your dh might be able to work on things in a civil way.

Bottom line something needs to change, you and Dh need to communicate calmly and rationally.
Thank, you are right. We would qualify for those things, but DH wont use them. Too much pride. We have been here before though and do always make it through. He doesn't want to take from someone who needs it more... We have spoken about me working an opposite shift of him, and I may end up doing that, even though I prefer not to (still nursing my youngest) but obviously some things are more important. After we spoke last night things seem to be a lot better, but I'm not just going to go with it this time. Something needs to be done so that things stay good, so communication needs to be better, and I feel like I would feel better if I had a get out plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Down2Earth View Post
Is it a credit or debit card? If it's a debit, start embezzling! Get cash back from each and every transaction. It won't show up on your statement. Those 20s will add up.

And my other advice is to NOT leave your house. If your DH tells you to leave, don't. You and the kids deserve to stay in your home. He should be the one to leave and call the police if you need to. I mean, in the situation where you are arguing and he's yelling at you to leave.
well, he isn't exactly yelling at me to leave. its more like this.

"Things are not getting better. Me and the kids are going to leave when I have the money." I say.
"Why should I pay the bills and give you a free place to stay while you save up to leave me."he says.
"It's not just about me, its about the kids too."
"Yeah, and they can stay here." he says
"You know I'm not going to leave the kids here. You wouldn't watch them." I say.
"I can hire a nanny." he says.

its more like that. it usually comes up after a fight, not during. we dont yell when we fight. but he can be really rude with his words
post #42 of 97
It sounds like you and your DH have been trapped in a gilded cage for a while. The gild is waring off and things are getting ugly.

It sounds like he has been using alcohol to self medicate for some kind of mental issue, and that you used shopping for similar reasons. You are now both trying to be sober with no support but each other. So I would make step one be:
Get help for your addictions. Since your addiction is one that directly affects your ability to be financially independent, I think it is critical to work on it before you start getting too involved in your next goal:
Working towards financial independence. Since you like children and you will need child care for your own children, I would say you should look into doing child care. You could either get a job at a nearby child care facility, or you could consider starting one at your home.

Instead of giving your DH you paycheck to pay towards bills, use it to start paying for groceries etc. You can probably use the excuse that having a bank account and handling money is part of you therapy for your shopping addiction. This will both ease some of his financial worries and take the burden of his being you keeper off him. It's a win win situation that should allow you to work on building a bit of savings if you are careful and frugal.

You may find that once you have started to build an independent, your marriage will start to improve. Since neither of you will feel like you are trapped anymore (I'm pretty sure if you ask your DH he will say he feels just as trapped as you do right now) you may be able to start being partners again, instead of inmates. If it hasn't improved though, then you final step is:
Ask him to leave. For all kinds of reasons it makes much more sense for him to go than for you to go. You have the kids, he is just himself. He can rent a room at the YMCA if he needs to, you don't have that option. If he refuses to go, then decide what to do, but don't just willingly take your kids off to some one bedroom apt.


I know this may sound odd, but the best thing I ever did for my marriage was to leave my husband. We are now back together, and though things aren't perfect, they are better. DH is in counselling now for one thing, and we no longer see his mother (I know that sounds terrible, but the only times he's been violent towards me are with her around.)
post #43 of 97
Did I miss the shopping addiction?
post #44 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
Did I miss the shopping addiction?
It's in post #32.
post #45 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post
It's in post #32.
Thanks. I totally missed that post.
post #46 of 97
i haven't read all the pages but first i want to tell you to be very very careful online. your husband is very controlling. you never know, he may be monitoring your computer. mine had a key stroke reader and he not only read everything I typed (including the stuff I deleated) but my user names, passwords etc....

secondly there are lots of ways to squeeze a few pennies here and there. although your husband sounds so tight with money. what would happen if you insisted on using a cash system for your budget. there are several financial advisors who advise this. it is really easy to sqeeze money from here and there if you are on a cash system.

what kind of friends do you have around? can they watch your kids? can you open a paypal account with their checking account. if you can get them to watch your kids one day a week could you sell your blood/plasma? its garage sale season. not to mention ebay. start selling everything that is not nailed down. a little here and a little there. are you crafty? can you start an etsy store. even if you sell stuff so cheap you don't turn a profit, it would be a way to convert your husbands tightly controlled money into your money.

I saved cash. I didn't want it in the bank because i didn't want him to find it. I was fortunate enough to have a job. I also had access to our bank account.

think outside of cash. I hoarded groceries. I was able to go two months without buying groceries. I also hoarded supplies for my etsy store. that covered christmas and birthday presents. if you need to buy the kids some clothes buy an extra pair of jeans or pack of undies in a bigger size. Anytime you go shopping buy a few extra things you will need (clothes, gifts, non-parishable food) anything that he won't fight for and will ease the expenses later. also if you have friends who who will go shopping with you pay for some of their stuff and have them give you cash for them. if you write a check write it for $10 or $15 over (so long as he doesn't check the reciepts).

What can you do with the kids? can you deliver papers? babysit? mow lawns?

you are going to need someone to help you out. do you have friends who will help you get out?

definitely talk to a shelter. if nothing else they can direct you where you need to go. you are completely at your husbands mercy. This is fine if things are good but not so fine if he is using it to keep you in your place.

I also put my lawyers retainer on my husbands credit card. right before I served him with papers.

while you can count on child support (look for an online calculator online) you likely will not get alimony or spousal support of any kind.

avoid do it yourself stuff that costs money. they suck.
post #47 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
while you can count on child support (look for an online calculator online) you likely will not get alimony or spousal support of any kind.
I think it is a bit naive to believe you can count on child support. I have never seen a penny in 16 years. My cousin gets sporadic checks.. like maybe a grand total of 100 a year. NEVER count on child support.
post #48 of 97
I've never read it but people on "parents as partners" seem to really like the book "how to improve your marriage without talking about it". Worth a look. I admire how you weigh both sides of the issue- you seem like a very smart person (relationally and intelectually). I have no doubt you will find your way through this- whatever that path may be.
post #49 of 97
I hear a struggling marriage in financial trouble when I read your post. I have BTDT to most of what you said.

I can understand why he keeps control of the money (you having a shopping problem in the past that caused a lot of trouble), it seems like his way of "keeping you honest" and keeping you from making the same mistakes again. It really does not seem like he is just trying to be controlling but actually trying to help in a backhanded way.

I was wondering something though. Do you think there may be any signs of self destruction on his part?

The situation sounds very similar to others I have heard in the news over the last couple of months and years where the finances fail, depression sets in, and in the end you have a suicidal husband (sometimes taking the family with him).

Now, if you do not feel like he is any danger to himself or you, then, personally, I would try my hardest to fix it. A marriage (especially with children) is not something that should be given up without a fight. And if it were me, I would do everything within my powers to fix it. OTOH, if you feel like there is any danger, get out NOW.

Anyways, that is just MHO. I do hope you find the solution that is right for you.

One last comment. You behaviour will have an effect on him. It is possible that if you truly change your behaviour (and keep it changed for the long haul) it could bring back the man you married. It is just as likely that he is asking where the woman he married went. There seems to be a circle going with you two, and if you are interested in fixing it, one of you will have to break it. It takes humbling yourself and doing all the "right" things even when he is not. (This does not mean being a "doormat", but it does mean treating him with respect even when he has not earned it, treating him how you would like him to treat you, in spite of his behaviour.) It takes keeping it up even when he does not reciprocate. And it usually gets darker before the dawn, as they say. But in the end, if you really change yourself, you may just get your husband back even better than before.
post #50 of 97
I don't think this has been mentioned - you can look into co-abode.com (something like that, googleing it should work) for a cheaper place to stay. Then you split the rent, utilities, etc with another single mom. HTH.
post #51 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
i haven't read all the pages but first i want to tell you to be very very careful online. your husband is very controlling. you never know, he may be monitoring your computer. mine had a key stroke reader and he not only read everything I typed (including the stuff I deleted) but my user names, passwords etc....
I am not concerned about this at all (IDK maybe I should be but I feel like I don't need to be] he has never been one to go through my things, he is extremely good about respecting privacy.

Quote:
secondly there are lots of ways to squeeze a few pennies here and there. although your husband sounds so tight with money. what would happen if you insisted on using a cash system for your budget. there are several financial advisors who advise this. it is really easy to sqeeze money from here and there if you are on a cash system.
we used to do cash but Im so bad at estimating cost that I'd end up up asking for less money then what it costs to buy a weeks worth of groceries. I've enjoyed being able to just go and buy what we need and not have to worry about being short. When we did use cash if there is money over he tells me to keep it so I have some money on me like if I want to go out for lunch or something or just to have some cash on me. I can start saving that money but it wont be from grocery shopping since if I brought cash there would be nothing left and not enough food lol. I'm no good with money really. I might do that cash back thing someone suggested though with the debit card.


Quote:
what kind of friends do you have around? can they watch your kids? can you open a paypal account with their checking account. if you can get them to watch your kids one day a week could you sell your blood/plasma? its garage sale season. not to mention ebay. start selling everything that is not nailed down. a little here and a little there. are you crafty? can you start an etsy store. even if you sell stuff so cheap you don't turn a profit, it would be a way to convert your husbands tightly controlled money into your money.
I have only one friend, but yes she would watch the kids... not regularly because she works and goes to school but sometimes. I don't think I can sell my blood/plasma because I had leukemia when I was younger. I'm actually trying to sell some things now though - clothes, cloth diapers, toys, etc that the kids are done with - my husband is expecting me to keep that money. Etsy is a no go for me, I am not artistic at all unfortunately... and I envy those who are!

Quote:
I saved cash. I didn't want it in the bank because i didn't want him to find it. I was fortunate enough to have a job. I also had access to our bank account.
I think cash would be best for me as well for several reasons, glad to hear someone else used that method.

Quote:
What can you do with the kids? can you deliver papers? babysit? mow lawns?
I dont think I could handle more than my own brood to be honest. I love kid, but I'm at my max with them. When I just had one I used to babysit though. Never thought of delivering papers... mowing lawns is a no go - I dont know how and its so hot out I worry about overheating - I've had heat stroke

Quote:
you are going to need someone to help you out. do you have friends who will help you get out?
I will have someone help me if I need help, I'd need help no matter what probably, but I think if I was actually moving he would help me.

Thanks for all the advise and insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post
I've never read it but people on "parents as partners" seem to really like the book "how to improve your marriage without talking about it". Worth a look. I admire how you weigh both sides of the issue- you seem like a very smart person (relationally and intelectually). I have no doubt you will find your way through this- whatever that path may be.
I'll look into it, sounds like what I need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty View Post
I hear a struggling marriage in financial trouble when I read your post. I have BTDT to most of what you said.
that is really encouraging to hear

Quote:
I can understand why he keeps control of the money (you having a shopping problem in the past that caused a lot of trouble), it seems like his way of "keeping you honest" and keeping you from making the same mistakes again. It really does not seem like he is just trying to be controlling but actually trying to help in a backhanded way.
I understand why too. It makes things hard if I want to leave, but I wasn't wanting to leave I was wanting to stay before, and it was easier for me this way. I still get what I want and need, I would even say I'm "spoiled" in that way. Especially if its things for me (he doesn't like when I buy too much for the kids because I get carried away, but he likes to see me do nice things for myself - I know sometimes even HE will give me money he shouldn't when its something for me...) ... Right now I think we can find a way to make this work, but I think at the same time I need to have money aside and a plan for getting out...


Quote:
Now, if you do not feel like he is any danger to himself or you, then, personally, I would try my hardest to fix it. A marriage (especially with children) is not something that should be given up without a fight. And if it were me, I would do everything within my powers to fix it. OTOH, if you feel like there is any danger, get out NOW.
no, I don't think there is danger. I think are two really stressed out people who are both feeling underappreciated and he is just worse about handling it than I am.

Quote:
One last comment. You behaviour will have an effect on him. It is possible that if you truly change your behaviour (and keep it changed for the long haul) it could bring back the man you married. It is just as likely that he is asking where the woman he married went. There seems to be a circle going with you two, and if you are interested in fixing it, one of you will have to break it. It takes humbling yourself and doing all the "right" things even when he is not. (This does not mean being a "doormat", but it does mean treating him with respect even when he has not earned it, treating him how you would like him to treat you, in spite of his behaviour.) It takes keeping it up even when he does not reciprocate. And it usually gets darker before the dawn, as they say. But in the end, if you really change yourself, you may just get your husband back even better than before.
you are right. thank you so much.

The other thing is he is terrible with relationships and talking and stuff in general. He was raised with that whole heavy handed men don't cry or talk about feelings because thats "gay" etc thing, and it's so far ingrained in him it's very hard to get around and I'm just glad he isn't doing it to our own children... He doesn't know what functional looks like. He came from an unbelievable upbringing... and I think considering that he turned out really well. I know he really wants to provide for his family, and if it came down to it I really think he would pay child support without it being a problem... Things may not seem to workable during and argument, but we separated once before and things were very amicable.
post #52 of 97
I agree with Cativari---it seems that most of the problems are coming from major stress about money, and that is completely understandable. If you are worried that you are going to lose your house, then that can cause enough stress to give you a heart attack.

And, now there is a bit more understanding as to WHY you are given a credit card to use for grocery shopping and asking for things........in your prior postings, you made it sound like it was an abusive situation as far as money goes..........but that isn't the case. If you have shown that you are irresponsible with money, it is only right that your husband has to "control the reins" so to speak. I think anybody in the same situation would do that same thing. If your shopping and spending caused major problems last time, and you had your own bank account cancelled and are unable to open a new one, then that is a good indication that your spending was out of control and your husband has to do whatever he has to do to keep things in a positive credit situation.

Now that one major stressor has been identified, there is a VERY GOOD reason to get a job. That would help a lot of things all-around: You'd be making money to contribute to the household, you'd have a job that would make you feel productive, and it would get you out of the house----and I think that may be a HUGE help. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that some of your unhappiness MIGHT have to do with the fact that you are cooped up in the house all the time, watching the kids, doing laundry, cleaning the house, etc. I think that getting out of the house and not feeling like a handmaid all day, every day, may do wonders for your own psyche. It is tough to stay home all day, with 3 young kids, and have to do housework and take care of those children and then deal with your husband who is stressed out and unhappy too. Getting out of the house, away from the kids, and doing something COMPLETELY different than household chores may help your mind and body. Perhaps you are being more sensitive and easily aggravated by your husband's actions too?

Now that I have read more of your postings, I can honestly say that I do believe you are going over a rough spot in your marriage. You have had rough spots before, and you and your husband have made it through---so, I have faith that you can do it again. What it takes for that to happen is COMMUNICATION. You and your husand MUST, MUST, MUST sit down and get everything out on the table so you can discuss things and come to a solution that is mutually agreeable to both of you. And, once you do that, maybe divorce will be the furthest thing from your mind. But, I think you are confused by the tone of your postings. In one line, you say that you want to save cash because you don't want him to find it and that you asked to stay with a friend, and then in the next line you say that you think that there are just "2 stressed people feeling underapprerciated and he is worse at handling it" than you are. You admit that you are "spoiled" to a degree as far as money and him wanting you to do nice things for yourself. Maybe instead of HIM handling it worse than you, YOU are handling it worse than him!!

It sounds to me like you are just in a bad place in your marriage right now, stemming from financial woes. Instead of plotting and sneaking around to try and save money and have a "backup plan", instead of using that negative energy to think about all the ways you can get away, why don't you change your thinking into a positive direction---and think about SOLUTIONS. The very first thing you MUST do is communicate with your husband. From what I hear, and granted, I could be very wrong, but from what I hear you are not in danger, your needs are being provided for (and MORE if he wants you to do nice things for yourself), your kids needs are being met----you are unhappy because your husband is unhappy and cranky and he is acting unhappy and cranky. I would almost guarantee that you are presently no bed of roses to live with now either. I think your husband has had to deal with a lot of financial issues from your crazy spending in the past and may be dealing with the aftermath. I am sure that in your history there has been a lot on both sides that has been faced and conquered---it seems that there is too much of a history to throw it all away because you both are facing a rough time and both of you are cranky. You say that you love him and he loves you---the reason to get a divorce is because the love isn't there anymore and the turmoil is outweighing the happy times, and has been for a long time---especially with 3 kids. What would walking away (and the way you are talking, "sneaking away" and lying about things so you can one day just "disappear") teach your children about dealing and coping with difficult times? Do you want your kids to lie to you and sneak around on you instead of being honest and talking to you and confiding in you? Even though they are young, they will eventually know what happened and HOW it happened, and how will they feel when they find out that you were lying and one day just took off without your husband knowing? How would YOU feel if your husband did that to you? You don't have just yourself to think about now---you've got 3 young children that you are responsible for teaching and raising with the proper priciples and morals in life.

I also think that you may be "bored", and could be seeking happiness on the other side of the fence. Take it from me---the grass is NOT greener on the other side, if you are having your needs and wants met, if your kids are having their needs and wants met, it you or the kids are not in physical danger, and if this just happens to be a "bad time", there is no reason to "escape" or sneak away. Everybody has bad times, whether financial, health-wise or other, and life isn't without its problems. The way to solve problems is to identify them and come up with solutions---not to run the other way and hope they disappear. There is a saying---"No matter where you go, there you are." Your problems follow you wherever you go--running away or moving to another state will not abolish your problems.

My feelings when I read your comments about not mowing lawns because it is too hot out and you are worried about "overheating"........and that you have not really thought about or considered a lot of things that people are suggesting that are NOT difficult things to do, and that if you went back to work you wouldn't make much so it doesn't make sense to do that.............let me tell you something, and I don't want to sound like a hard ass here, but: If you were in a desperate situation and REALLY wanted to get out, you would do ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING and probably EVERYTHING possible to make money to save to be able to leave. In the beginning, you made it sound like your husband was "controlling" you by "lending" you a credit card to go shopping with and not giving you any cash.............but now you are saying that he would give you cash but you don't want it because you are terrible at estimating costs......so, if you wanted to tuck away some cash here and there, you could. He is not "controlling" the money at all like you came across saying at first. He is only keeping track of what is coming in and what is going out---like anybody does who lives within a budget!! It sounds like you may be unable to budget, so actually you are lucky that he does that! Maybe you should sit down and try to make a budget yourself----make a grocery list of things that you commonly buy every week and how much those items cost. Look through the weekly grocery store circulars and see what is on sale that you need or would like to eat, write it down and how much it costs. Keep track of anything and everything you buy in a week and in a month, and how much you are spending weekly and monthly. Maybe if YOU show some motivation to want to help the financial situation it would reduce the stress on your husband's part and he would have a different attitude. Have a yard sale!! Summertime is the best time to do this---and I am sure our house is chock full of stuff that you no longer need or want. (I had a yard sale once, and I made a cool $2100 in cash, selling crap that was still in excellent condition but that I didn't want anymore because I was sick of it!! Clothing, pocketbooks, vacuum cleaners, cameras, lots of books that I read and no longer wanted I sold for .50 and .25 each!! Old CD's and DVD's, sheets, towels...........hard to believe that my "junk" made $2100!! And, when I moved 5 years ago, I had a moving sale/estate sale.........instead of just throwing stuff away..........and I made $11,000 CASH in 2 days. Unbelieveable.) There are LOTS of ways to make money, and if you really were desperate you could think of a lot more ways, probably!

Just because he is "terrible at relationships" doesn't mean he doesn't love you or love his children. Men like that close up very easily, and the more aggravated and angry at him you are, the more he will shut down. Make yourself available to communicate in a calm, rational manner. Be nice. Make him feel good---about working hard to keep the home afloat, mainly. Reassure him that things will be okay, and that you will do whatever it is necessary to help out with things. Instead of antagonizing him (and just abandoning him), show him that you will stand by him and support him and support your belief in yyour family. Lots of men were raised with the idea that they have to be "strong" and not show emotions, but that doesn't mean they don't feel emotions----and holding them in is sometimes more hard than letting them out. Everybody gets mad. Everybody gets sad sometimes. Everybody feels stress. However---everybody has different tolerances for things, and what throws him over the edge may not throw you over the edge. It sounds to me like he knows what the financial situation is and you don't. ASK HIM. Find out exactly what the financial situation is and SHARE the burden!! Maybe if you really knew what was going on, your mindset would change. Sit down with him and make a budget together. Figure out what you are going to do---TOGETHER---to improve the situation. Maybe if he felt like someone was on his side, on HIS TEAM, so to speak, or "HAS HIS BACK", he will relax a bit and won't have to carry the financial burden all by himself, and that will make him feel better. Hey---times are tough, there is no denying that. People are losing their jobs, losing their houses, going without health insurance...........count your blessings and be grateful for what you DO have and the positives in your life. I can guarantee you that if you sneak out of the house one day and take off, your life is going to become a whole hell-of-a-lot harder than it is now. Plus, I think it would devastate your husband---I really do. What your husband needs now is SUPPORT, not for you to walk away when times are tough. If you are truly just so unhappy that you can't take it anymore, then that's a different story. But, honestly, that isn't what I am getting from you now. (In the beginning, you were much different and made it sound like a totally desperate situation, which I am finding out now, is not.) I am getting the story of someone who is frustrated, cooped up, and angry that her husband is angry. Shoot, if I just had a car repossessed and used up $5,000 out of my savings to live I'd be stressed out and pissed off too!! But, to be plotting your escape and planning on how much child support and alimony you'd get is a really sh***y way to think. (Sorry for the language) You leave because there is no hope---and you don't leave based on how much child support he'd pay. If you are unhappy, you just leave!! Or, you talk to your husband like a rational adult, with the same respect you would want from him, and discuss who is going to leave and how--and included in this discussion whould be a plan of how you will tell your children that they will not be seeing Daddy every day, etc. You say your husband respects your privacy........Honestly, I don't see a desperate situation here. If he wanted to be a sh**head to you, God knows he could----but he doesn't sound like the type!!

I think right now, what you need to do is change your own attitude---and you'll find out that the old adage rings true: What comes around goes around. If you're nice, then you'll get nice back. If you're understanding, then you'll get understanding back. If you are an angry, unhappy witch, then guess what you are going to get back??? You are a smart woman, and I am sure I don't need to tell you that when you are feeling down or feeling defeated, what you want is someone to listen, someone to help, someone to support you. Why would your husband not want the same?
post #53 of 97
Thread Starter 
Please do not pass judgment on my physical condition. I really cannot do things mow lawns. I think staying alive is moer important for my children than anything, and with a long list of medical conditions (thankfully some only part of the past) I do have to be careful with what I do.

I've thought of cleaning houses though, or businesses after business hours. If I do businesses I can bring the kids with me... my friends mom used to do that, and I don't have to worry about getting sick.

I wish that I was getting back what I put out there, but that is really not the case here, and the problem really is that I am communicating and he is not. And I've asked him many times not to throw things. It wasn't done in anger, but it was done to show he was annoyed I asked for his help and so he was going to help in the least helpful way possible, which resulted in a broken window this time. I am not the one saying unkind words about or to our children or being short tempered with them. I am very well capable of handling my emotions, and of course I am confused. That doesn't mean I handle it worse then him, it means I love him but at the same time I love myself and my children, and I just want to make sure that whatever I do it is the best thing for everyone involved. My husband has it very good, and it's very hard to say something nice to someone and then their response to that very statement be rude or unkind. I am willing to support whatever he is going through, but not in such a way that involvesme being an emotional punching bag.

If I made him sound controlling over the money issue that was not my intent. I was trying not to get into detals, but when I realized not getting into details was making it look that way I cleared the air. At no point was I like oh poor me oh woe is me he wont give me money. I've said from the beginning that I have it good in that regard.

What do you suggest I do when everyhting turns into an arguement, and I keep trying to be nice even in those moments but he just keeps going.

Here is an example from a few weeks ago.

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
Me: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
Me: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, well either of those is fine with me (I'm trying to let him give me some say since I know he didnt really even want to order out in the first place)
Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
Me: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want


this went on and on causing a fight, and I'm just trying to pacify him the entire time because I think its a stupid thing to fight about. He puts me in a position where either I am the inconsiderate one who makes all the decisions, or I'm the one who wont "just answer his question already" as he puts it, but he isn't answering my question either. So to not be doing the same thing I would have to just decide without consideration to him. If I say never mind I'll cook what do you want that causes a fight with him too. He's harder then a 2 year old! So finally he is on the phone ordering food and I say, oh where are you ordering from so I can tell you want I want. and he goes, what do you want. and I say, well where are you ordering from so I know.

Why couldn't he just tell me he was on the phone with the chinese food resteraunt. Why does their need to be strife? As a abckstory, he is WAY pickier with food then I am, so I always just say you pick the place and I'll find something I like, but it's like he is choosing to put him in a place where he is going to end up miserable. I don't know what else to do in these situations, but I don't want to feel forced into making decisions that will cause him to blame ME for him being miserable, when all he had to do for EVERYONE to be happy is to just talk to me. He turns a 2 minute conversation in a half our long argument - and its him arguing with me while I'm trying to just be agreeable and make him happy.


I think I have been careful here not to paint him as some total monster, because he's not. As I said, he's not abusive. When others were getting that vibe I always cleared it up right away. But now it seems its just going to be swung the other way to say I'm the bad guy. Why does someone have to be the bad guy? I'm here for support saying 1) if I do need to get out, which is something only I can decide, what are all my options? and 2) if I'm going to stay, how can I work on things when he isn't willing.

I didnt say hey do you think my husband is a monster or hey do you think actually im the problem here. I know what our problem is. I know my role that I play in it. And I also know that even when I try to change my role it doesn't help and I also know that he is unwilling to work on things and I am, and so I think YES it is that he is the one having a harder time working on this relationship.

PS- I did "run away to another state once" had nothing to do with DH, and guess what? Got rid of at least 95% of my problems. So sometimes, getting away does help. I'm not convinced it will in this situation, and I wouldn't leave state anyway because I want the kis close to their dad even if I do leave. and it's not like the kids would get less time with him. He spends MAYBE 5 minutes a day in their presence, not to speak of how much of that time is even directed towards giving them positive attention. He probably is depressed. Not living with him might not be the answer, but at the same time, it wouldn't be much different then the situation is now except the few minutes he spends with me and the kids might be a bit more positive, I don't know. He says they are loud and so by time he sees them he is already annoyed with them for making noise.

I'm not sure what more you suggest I give my husband. I come up to him, kiss him on the cheek, tell him I love him. I rub his shoulders. I offer to make him meals. I cook his favorite desserts just to show I am thinking of him. When he talks about the things he likes I listen actively and I take joy in the fact its something he cares about even if its not something that interests me personally. But he doesn't want to hear 1 sentence about my day or my interests.

Also I am not "plotting" on alimony and child support. For one, I wouldnt even go after alimony because I don't believe in it (for me personally, nothing against anyone who gets it) child support I wouldn't even have to ask for her would give. And if he didn't I'm not going to take him to court for that because its not worth the stress, and I've seen it caused too many problems. I was raised just fine without my dad ever sending child support, and I feel confident that once I was on my feet I could do just fine. Wouldn't be easy, but I've also seen men unable to support themselves because they got a pay cut one way or another but their child support didnt go down and I wouldn't do that to my husband no matter how we ended up splitting up, if we ended up splitting up.

It's not a desperate get out this minute situation and i'm sorry it sounded that way. Of course when I wrote this post I was emotional and hurting and crying as I wrote and now I have calmed down and I see that there is still a problem, and its a problem we keep having, and that at some point it's not going to be healthy to stay here if things dont change and I would be wise to have a plan in advance for what to do. Because there was a time I SHOULD have left and didn't, even if it was only temporarily, and I wasn't able to. I should be able to leave if I need, even if its not permanent.

I'm sure you didnt mean your post as an attack but from this side it really came across that way.
post #54 of 97
He sounds a lot like my ex . He never let me touch the money, and the few times he did give me money, it'd disappear. When I'd confront him on it, he'd say it was my fault for not spending it fast enough. :

He also had a bad habit of twisting anything we were arguing about into being my fault somehow. No matter what it was. It really starts to get old...

Anyway, we had a lot of other issues as well, and despite what a pp said, my ex was oblivious to my unhappiness-even when I'd tell him directly. I tried to leave repeatedly and then chickened out-due to money and due to him making promises of changing, which he never kept.

So yeah, I left him, found a new guy that I love more than anything, and although I am still horribly broke, I'm so much happier. On top of that, I found out after we split up that my ex gave me an STD, which means he was cheating on me, something I never knew (and I know this isnt the same, but he also decided he was bi and wanted to do things with men-I have no problem with gay/bi people-just not when its my husband!). Ew.

It does sound like your dh might have some mental health issues, as did my ex. Mine was seeking help, so that wasnt the whole issue for us (a lot of it was just his personality I think, coupled with a great ability to lie), but well, if he wont seek help, there isnt much you can do

Good luck!! I gotta take my kids to the park.
post #55 of 97
Quote:
Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
Me: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
Me: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, well either of those is fine with me (I'm trying to let him give me some say since I know he didnt really even want to order out in the first place)
Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
Me: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want
ok my marriage was a collasal failure so take this for what it is worth but you do seem to be the one picking a fight here (and I used to do this all the time). why not stop reading into his tone and just take him at his word? He says fine what do you want you say "chinese sounds good to me. but I am open" he says he doesn't care. you say " I am ordering chinese what do you want? should I just order a little of this and a little of that?" he says I don't care. you say "ok I will just a get a variety of stuff and we can pick and choose....." end of discussion. I know my husband spent all day at work making descisions about very important stuff. when it came time for supper he just wanted it in front of him. he wanted someone else to make the descisions every now and then and stop putting everything on him. next time your husband says he does not care try believing him.

and i really think you guys should get some counseling. certainly wouldn't hurt. maybe make it a date night and go out before or after the counseling session.

and perhaps you hsould look into getting a job. kids are resiliant. if he does a crappy job watching them they will not die and him and the kids will find their own way. you could use that money to contribute to the expenses or maybe save up for a car. it sounds like it would be good for you to be able to get out of the house every now and then.
post #56 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
Here is an example from a few weeks ago.

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
Me: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
Me: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, well either of those is fine with me (I'm trying to let him give me some say since I know he didnt really even want to order out in the first place)
Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
Me: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want
Ok, here is MO on your "argument".

you: want to order dinner?

him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
At this point you should have just taken his answer as a "yes" since he did say "sure".

you: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
This sounds like you are trying to pick an argument by being contrary to him

him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
So now he is definsive

you: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
This was good.

Him: whatever you want.
This was good.

you: okay, well either of those is fine with me
This sounds like you are deliberatly trying to start an arguement.

Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
He sounds frustrated

you: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want
You sound like you are pushing for a fight now



I don't want to sound mean, but I have had similar arguments with my DH and it never came out well. This was us for years, and we struggled with communicating and just being in the same room at times. Finally I had had enough. And this is what I said.

"I am tired of fighting. I am no longer going to take responsibility for your answers and reactions. This is what I am going to do. If you say something, I am going to take it as your word. If you say yes, I take that as a yes. If you say no, I take that as a no. I will not take responsibility to try and read your mind and figure out if you are really meaning yes or no. And I will not accept it if you use me as an excuse for your answers. You are man enough to make your own decisions and choices, if you pass that choice to me, don't complain when I make it."

So, in the spirit of the above decision, our conversations would have changed to:

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want.
Me: I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, I want Chinese. Here is what I want.


This removes the probability of an argument.

Perhaps you should give something like this a try.

It took DH a bit to understand that I would not accept responsibility for his words and choices and that he could not blame them on me. But he finally did. And our marriage improved a great deal.
post #57 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty View Post
It took DH a bit to understand that I would not accept responsibility for his words and choices and that he could not blame them on me. But he finally did. And our marriage improved a great deal.



I agree completely. Take his words at face value and politely go from there. There is a lot you can do on your end to improve your marriage if you do this. The argument you posted actually gives me a lot of hope that your marriage can make it if you learn a different style of communicating.
post #58 of 97
I may be missing something, but it doesn't seem like your husband is abusive at all. The money issue makes total sense to me given the additional details.

Like some others have stated, he does sound like he is in a funk. (Not an excuse! ) I base that on the financial stress, your admission that it seems to get worse after a baby (added pressure), and the fact that you mentioned he works from home (which can be isolating).

If your hubby is not willing to get counseling with or without you...what about reading a book together that may help strengthen your marriage? Or, what about reading a book together that you both might enjoy (regardless of the subject matter)? What about seeing if hubby is interested in taking a(n) (often reasonable!) local class in something he enjoys? Then, perhaps you can take the next session of classes so you can get out and away for a little while? I think a PT job is also a great idea for you - it may give you some autonomy.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
post #59 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty View Post
Ok, here is MO on your "argument".

you: want to order dinner?

him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
At this point you should have just taken his answer as a "yes" since he did say "sure".

you: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
This sounds like you are trying to pick an argument by being contrary to him

him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
So now he is definsive

you: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
This was good.

Him: whatever you want.
This was good.

you: okay, well either of those is fine with me
This sounds like you are deliberatly trying to start an arguement.

Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
He sounds frustrated

you: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want
You sound like you are pushing for a fight now



I don't want to sound mean, but I have had similar arguments with my DH and it never came out well. This was us for years, and we struggled with communicating and just being in the same room at times. Finally I had had enough. And this is what I said.

"I am tired of fighting. I am no longer going to take responsibility for your answers and reactions. This is what I am going to do. If you say something, I am going to take it as your word. If you say yes, I take that as a yes. If you say no, I take that as a no. I will not take responsibility to try and read your mind and figure out if you are really meaning yes or no. And I will not accept it if you use me as an excuse for your answers. You are man enough to make your own decisions and choices, if you pass that choice to me, don't complain when I make it."

So, in the spirit of the above decision, our conversations would have changed to:

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want.
Me: I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, I want Chinese. Here is what I want.


This removes the probability of an argument.

Perhaps you should give something like this a try.

It took DH a bit to understand that I would not accept responsibility for his words and choices and that he could not blame them on me. But he finally did. And our marriage improved a great deal.
and the reason why I dont do it this way:

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want.
Me: I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, I want Chinese. Here is what I want.

several days later:

Me: any ideas what you;d like for dinner
Him: why do you even bother asking? you don't care what I like anyway. You don't like anything I like.



How am I supposed to know what he likes when he wont tell me and I can't ask him, and then he throws it in my face a few days later. If you have any advice for how this is still my fault I'd love to know, because I've tried atleast 20 different approached over the same issues, and it always comes down to him finding a way to make me the bad guy, and make me wrong, and according to you all here that is the truth. Maybe I just suck as a person and I'm some kind of idiot who after many many tried of several different things, including things others have suggested, in the end I am the bad guy and its all my fault.
post #60 of 97
Thread Starter 
I can read a book. He won't read a book. He wont do anything. The only thing he would be willing to do is tell me all the things I can change. Then I do exactly as he says and he still isnt happy, and makes no changes of his own. I'm really tired of pretending to be someone I'm not and trying to be "perfect" for him and then it's still not enough.

Maybe my examples are bad, but there is nothing I can say or do that is good enough these days. I've even tried not taking to him (I DONT 't mean ignoring him/cold shoulder, I just mean giving him space and letting him come to me) and you know what happens? We dont talk for days and he wont even notice. I've tried writing him sweet notes and hiding them in places he goes into freqeutly, like one in his wallet, one in his sock drawer, etc. I try to do things to SHOW him I love him, as well as tell him. He changes what he wants too as often as he tells me he wants it though, and I can't keep up and its tiring. He'll say how I changed because I don't get dressed up for him anymore for example. So I start dressing up and doing my hair and he doesn't even notice. Not that he takes great care of himself, I would never say this to him but I'm still 110 lbs after 3 kids... you'd think he was the one who'd been pregnant 3 times, and he's telling me what *I* need to do to get his attention. Of course now I' taking about physical things, which is another issue. I work on myself as much as I can, but his response about himself is basically "I know I can be a real jerk sometimes, but thats just who I am." or "I can't help it, I'm just not as patient as you so its hard to be around the kids" as an excuse for NEVER spending time with them. Okay, so maybe you cant spend 24 hours a day around them, but so little patience that you can't even sit down for the time it takes to read one story?

Today for example:
Me: Can you put the baby in the carseat (the one thing I've asked him to do in the last few days) If you can't it's cool I can get it, it would just make it easier
Him: (huffing) - fine!
Me: Thanks, I really appreciate the help. I'm going to make up a plate of dinner. You want?
Him: (annoyed and edgy) Of course, I'm starving
Me: Okay I'll make you some. Was just checking, didn't notice if you'd had a chance to grab a plate or not yet.
Him: How could I?! I'm was starving and I couldnt get food because I had to help you with the baby!
Me: Im sorry I didn't realize, next time itd be better if you just said no when you feel you can't help.
Him: Yeah right, like I can say no.

And where is this coming from? I don't know... He can say no. He is doing this now because I've said it's hard for me when he ALWAYS says no. I am not a confusing person though. I say up front I really need your help or I say I'm only asking because it makes it easier but I can do without the help. And even then, we've been over this - that I rather him just keep saying no every time then to say yes and help with a grudge.

which often the grudge gets taken out on the children.

Me frazzled - please come out here for a minute I need a hand!
Him - (storming out of room) (says to kids) okay you are all going to time out.

They didn't do anything wrong, I just need help. if I wanted to just lock them up in a room I could have done that myself. I was asking for his help because I wanted to do what I needed to do and not lose my cool with the kids... instead, it ends up with him losing his cool with the kids. defeats the purpose. And lately anytime he goes anywhere near the kids they say "daddy scare me! daddy scare me!" he has never physically hurt them, but to a small child his huffing and short fuse make him come across as unpredictable and things happen to fast when he is around and I understand why that scares them.
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