No School for her? Is this true?

[Kristina77]

Hello everyone,

we've just moved to England not even a week ago. There's so much we have to learn and adjust to, but to me the most important thing is to register my older one in a primary school,
I have visited a couple in the area..these were the ones people told us about as excellent ones. But now there is an issue with us not vaccinating. People say there is no way my daughter can attend school in London without her up to date shots. This scares me more than anything, because I made sure to ask around on here before we left the US. MDC readers said the UK was okay with non vaxed children in their schools.
We had a religious exemption in America, so our daughter could go to school...is there anything similar here in the UK? Can schools deny our child from attending or is it the doctor who decides? What should we do? Please, UK mamas help!!! I didn't want to bring up this issue at the schools I went to, just because they didn't give me any forms to fill out by the pediatrician...they didn't even mention the immunisation card which is the second thing they ask for in the US.

I hope someone can advice us! I'm really worried.
TIA, and thanks for reading

[Sadystar]

There is no requirement for vaccination in UK schools. Period.

In recent years the idea has been floated a few times by government (especially with regard to MMR), but they've yet to do anything about it and the idea is unpopular (the head of the British Medical Association even came out against it).

However MMR uptake levels have dropped and measles is again a reality - one kid off a plane from the UK has brought a mini-epidemic to the expat community round here. Perhaps that is what the concerned party meant - not that the vaccine is required, but that you can't bank on not getting it because vaccination levels aren't has high as the states?

[Kristina77]

Sadystar- thank you!!!! I've kept checking in every 10 mins since I've posted and I was disappointed that nobody would respond...until now
Thank you so much, I feel such a relief. I'm not sure why people told me otherwise, hm?
I see that you are in Spain, how is it over there regarding school and vaccines?

Once again, I appreciate your help!

[Sadystar]

I only just found out that MMR is compulsory here for education though I know tons of unvaxxed kids in school, I think they just lie and because vaccine uptake is virtually 100% in the Spanish population no one would think to question it - I suspect after the recent measles outbreaks (and they've all started in alternative expat populations), that will change.

DD1 hadn't had MMR until the measles hit here, but I felt that I had to do it to prevent her month old sister getting it - people are very pro-medical here, "letting" a baby get measles is tantamount to abuse - us homebirthers get enough stick anyhow.

Enjoy england, there are many reasons why I left but one of it's core values is education for all - I can't see that they will implement a compulsory jab anytime soon.

[orangefoot]

Don't panic!

Schools don't ask to see a vaccination record when you register or any other medical records. Despite calls for mandatory vaccination their is still no compulsion here as persuasion is seen to be a more respectful way to proceed.

There have been measles epidemics in London so perhaps what people mean is that they would be freaked out if their kid wasn't vaccinated in case they got caught up in an outbreak and weren't protected. They don't mean that you have to have your child vaccinated.

[Kristina77]

Thank you ladies!
I feel better right away, knowing that the school won't even ask
for medical records...since we don't have any with us from the US.
I guess our next step should be to register with a doctor here, right?
Also, I was wondering, what can happen in a case of an outbreak in schools?
Because in the US we had to sign a document stating, that our child
won't be able to attend school until the outbreak passes.
Anyway, from what you ladies told me here, I feel quite satisfied and love England already

Thank you very much for the information.

[Sadystar]

That's quite interesting....I've never heard of anything like that in the UK, I guess because vaccinating is your business not the school's then if you take your child out of school to avoid catching measles (rather than if they actually have it), solely because you have refused a free vaccination rather than your child is at higher risk, that would be an unauthorised absence and you'd have the education officer to deal with.

I don't know for sure, but having worked in primary schools, I'm pretty sure there is no such allowance for unvaxxed kids.

[Eco_Ma]

No requirement in Scotland so cant see it being different down there. Hey just come up to Bonnie Scotland loads more fun hehe xxx

[flapjack]

No requirement, and whoever told you that was inaccurate. I believe the school asks- because in the event that your child gets devastatingly ill and has to go to hospital they take vax records with them- but that's it. I've chosen to have my two smalls get their MMR because there was a measles outbreak in the town where DH works- none at his secondary school, but most of the primaries and the other secondary got affected.

And no, no children get discriminated against and asked to leave school because of a medical/religious issue- that's illegal.

[Kristina77]

Thank you all!

Yes, in America but I am sure it is that way all over, people tend to be scared of those who are not vaccinated. I usually ask them how come they don't trust the vaccines, don't they get it for full protection? If someone is vaccinated, I suppose they should feel confident about not getting infected by those who chose not to get the shots. But people always have their excuses, so yes, if there was an outbreak in NYC my daughter couldn't have gone to school...that's the way it works.

I appreciate everybody's input!

[guestmama9920]

i'm sure the school nurse will ask though, esp with the new safeguarding rules

[Helen_A]

Nope. The school nurse will not 'ask'. If your child is registered for Child Health surveilance then the schools health service will have that information anyway.

The new 'safeguarding' rules don't allow schools themselves access to this info unless it is deemed 'relevent'. The safeguarding is purely down to the requirement on schools to fulfill ECM, which is to do with what happens *in the school* not the choices made by parents in the home or health environment.

[NW6Londonmum]

adding another voice.
No requirement. It won't even come up in discussion. I know plenty of non-vaxing folks in state education. Not an issue.

[Kristina77]

Wow, this is very interesting...some folks say this, the others that.
I am still worried, haven't gone to any more schools for the application forms, simply because of fear. I am not sure what to expect from them.
I don't want to be put in the spotlight, then not know what to answer.
But time is running out on us and I need to find a good school for her.
I'm just not willing to let her get any vaccines. I hope I can have my cake and eat it too (in this matter)

Thank you mamas for giving me all this info ... I did PM a couple of you on here...hoping to get more details...

I am very grateful for this community on MDC!

[dalerose]

I would eat my daughter's vaccination card with red sauce if anyone asks! Just be sure not to bring the subject up.
If you saw a school nurse I would be very surprised. They are only going to be concerned with kids who are on medication or have extra needs. They have a bigger remit than seeing every kid admitted. They cover quite a few schools too, I think.

The only time I would think it could come up, is if your child had an accident and reqired tetanus cover, or in the event of an outbreak of a vaccine preventable disease.

[orangefoot]

Jut adding a bit more again

I have no idea which of my friends' children are vaccinated and which are not. I have 2 children in school one who is 16 and one 12 and I can tell you that I have NEVER been asked to provide evidence of vaccinations to ANYBODY.

No schools in our area have a dedicated school nurse any more. No-one checks for nits or looks after sick children - they just get sent home.

Yo have nothing to fear. My scariest school visit was going to a Catholic school and admitting that I am now a catholic atheist (that Catholic thing just doesn't leave you!) and that I wouldn't be taking my children to church but that I would not object to anything that they did in the school regarding religion.

That turned out ok so really don't freak yourself out about this. Have a look here and you will see that vaccination doesn't even get a mention in schools admissions criteria.

[flapjack]

OK, time IS running out for you, and your daughter will probably not be in school on the first day of the new term. (She won't be the only one either, don't panic.) Pick up the phone and ring the schools admission team for your area. Find out which schools have vacancies in your daughters year groups. Look at the schools websites, read their OFSTEDs, pick three, send your form in to schools admissions. The other alternative is to homeschool whilst your child is on the waiting list of the school of your choice, or to look at fee-paying schools, who handle their own admissions.

And yes, every school has a school nurse attached. I know ours quite well, because we work together to train Isaac's class teacher in "what to do when you have an asthmatic kid in your class who is too shy to ask for his inhaler." And "why it is a really silly idea to ask a child with a squint to take his glasses off to throw a javelin" and other greatest hits of primary school. Useful things, are community nurses Vaccinations aren't one of their concerns, although the school should ask about them: because the school may need to take your child to hospital super-urgently, they need this information to relay. That's it.

[Kristina77]

Thanks so much to you all!!! I was without the internet for over a week ...just had to check in before going to bed ... missed surfing on MDC
You mamas are the best.
I can't thank you enough.

[laohaire]

So, did you register?

Don't be afraid. I don't know anything about UK but on top of all the reassurances you got above, what's the worst that could happen if someone does say "Has she had all of her shots?" You don't have to get into a confrontation about it just because someone asks. I mean, you could even say you didn't know and will look into it. My point is just that even if it comes up (and according to everyone who posted, it just WON'T), it doesn't have to be a big deal.

DH and I registered my DD for preschool today, and my DH was a little nervous about it for the same reasons. I'm a complete confrontation-avoider; I give into my mother and MIL and everyone else because I hate it. But I pointed out to DH - so what if they deny our exemption? We don't have to fight it. We can just go, "oh, ok" and go home and talk about it. Find another school. Homeschool. Go back a different day and see if there's another lady at the registration desk. Heck, we can even decide to vaccinate. Not that I want to, but the point is that we have options, and it doesn't have to be a fight.

[UK Mom]

They do not ask. There is no requirement for them to be vacinnated anyway, but my son will be in Year 3 this year, and no one asked. In fact, when he started, he had not had the MMR, and even if I did write that down on a form, it is more for their information, not as a requirement.

Please do not worry. I know in the States (where I grew up) you needed to be vacinnated, but it is not the same here.

Did you get your daughter in school?