too extreme for local breastfeeding support group?

[evenstarlight]

I've been volunteering at our local "baby cafe" here in town. It's something put on by the local health services to try and encourage breastfeeding mothers. They provide a lunch and generally just a place for moms to gather.

As i'm training to be a LLL leader, I figured I'd go along and support it. I bring my 2 and a half year old daughter with me who still occasionally nurses in the daytime and she for the most part has quietly played while i've attempted to chat to the new moms.

Anyway, the health visitors who run it rang me up today and want to speak to me before it begins tomorrow, in fact, they want to come to my house!! I'm a bit nervous. I'm sort of afraid they are going to ask me to not come...perhaps me nursing my daughter is putting moms off.....i'm not quite sure. I try to be pretty chilled and not like hard core lactivist mode while I'm there. anyway, just feeling a bit nervous about this.....if they don't want me to come..it's fine, I'm not going to protest. The group itself doesn't really represent my own core values anyway, i just thought it'd be a good place to meet new moms and encourage them...but perhaps I'm just too much of an extreme type.... I was really trying though, and it makes me wonder if I really put people off when I speak to them. blehhh

[mjg013]

Maybe they want to speak to you for positive reasons. Maybe they want you to take on a bigger role. Why do you think that they might have a problem with you?

[evenstarlight]

Hmmm maybe i'm just pregnant and paranoid.....I'm not really sure exactly. I know they have made a point of emphasising it's a group to encourage feeding up to 6 months.....I don't know.

[Romana]

I know what that feeling is like. Who knows why they're coming . . . I hope it's to say something positive. Please do update us afterwards. I personally would think, ahead of time, of a few things I'd like to say if it is them coming to ask you not to BF your 2 year old. I'd write a couple of things down and keep it nearby so I could remember just in case. At least then I would have said what was important to me. Good luck; I hope they say something positive.

[hermionesmum]

I hope it goes well and please let us know how it goes. A friend of mine wants to start something similar in my home town, so I'll be very interested in your experience.
Do they see you as a volunteer or a "service user" who is perhaps using a facility inappropriately as your kid is over six months?

Good luck!

[calpurnia]

you're in congleton! my friend & i used to make regular "pilgrimages" there from manchester (loooong story).

anyhoooo. i would be interested to hear your update. i've been thinking about volunteering at my local breastfeeding cafe, but not got around to it yet...

[yarngoddess]

Have they stopped by yet? I'm curious as to WHY they wanted to meet up at your house? I'm with you- I get paronoid over stuff like that lol.

[evenstarlight]

They just left.

First off they wanted to know how I felt the group had been going and I told them...

Then they told me apparently some of the mothers have been complaining, and one even wrote in with a written complaint about my daughter. They felt she was running around too much and that I wasn't supervising her enough and they felt their babies were unsafe.
Now when Iona has inched a bit close to a baby mat, i've dealt with it, and times when she has maybe carried a heavy toy too close to one, I've told her to be carefull, and nothing has ever actually happened.....I thought I was doing a good job of letting the other mothers know that I realized the potential problem and was dealing with it, but apparently not enough.

I could tell they were really trying not to offend me....but I was a bit suprised that my daughter who really is honestly not a total wild child....was being perceived this way. Oh well. So they want to start a different group for older kids and they want me to be involved in that. They didn't want to tell me "not to come" but I told them that I was happy not to come and maybe come back later when I had my own new baby in tow and perhaps some of the mothers who'd been offended by Iona would have moved no by them.

I just did my best to be gracious and told them I was there to serve them and that I didn't have my own agenda etc. There was no use being all offended. If i'm going to be starting a La Leche League in this town in the next year or so I want to be on good terms with them all.

I did make the suggestion that maybe it may be easier if the babies were not just sitting on the mats the whole time....and that the mothers held them more. (that's the natural solution isn't it?? Just pick your baby up???) but yeah....different world really. My daughter isn't the only toddler there....there are other mothers with little babies and toddlers as well.....but yeah.

I'm hormonal and want to cry about it...but i'm honestly not THAT upset...just saddened really.

[mamazee]

People who haven't had toddlers yet don't always understand toddlers. Yes indeed, toddlers run.

[Flower of Bliss]

I was present for a LLL meeting, and then a not to long after it API meeting. A mom new to both groups was talking about the LLL meeting. She was saying that we needed to have someone watching the bigger kids in another room. She went on to talk and talk about the bigger kids poor and mainly loud behavior. She said they were 6-7 years old. I personally knew the "big" kids at that meeting (kids of long time members and Leaders). The oldest child was 4, and most of the "big" kids were 3. Her perception of the older kids, while sitting there holding her tiny new baby, was pretty different from reality. I think that's pretty common, especially with moms who didn't have much experience with small kids before having their own baby.

And, why are the babies on mats??? Is this something the cafe encourages and sets up, or do the moms tend to bring play mats for the babies?

[evenstarlight]

The baby cafe provides the mats so that the moms can change the babies and leave them there while they eat.
They could just offer to hold the babies while the mothers eat....but I think it's very much a "put the baby down and see how much it enjoys looking around and playing" sort of mentality as opposed to keeping the baby close etc.

Yes, I do think it's a perception thing, and i'm really not going to get all offended at the program, and will continue to support their efforts the best I can, but I do wonder if the mom who actually took the trouble to write and complain may have had more she was bothered about than just my daughter's overwhelming presense.

If it was me and I was a bit overwhelmed by the presense of "giant" children....as i remember being a little bit back when dd was a baby, my instinct would just be to pick her up and hold her.

[teale]

Originally Posted by mamazee

People who haven't had toddlers yet don't always understand toddlers. Yes indeed, toddlers run.

This. I think a lot of new parents think all toddlers are "bratty", "wild" and that their parents are not looking after them.

Good luck with the new group!

[sapphire_chan]

I bet the other toddler moms are getting a call too.

I think the health visitors should've told the complainers to suck it up and pick up their babies if they were worried. It's a breastfeeding support group not a mom's night out. I think that having it at lunch in a cafe might be detracting from the main point of the meeting and it might be better to meet earlier and have people go to lunch after if they choose.

One group here has toddler meetings as well. Gives moms of older nurslings a chance to discuss things specific to that age. But most (not sure if all since I've never been to the older group) of the toddlers are also at the main meeting.

[KimberlyD0]

I understand how frustrated you are. As a mom with a very spirited and active toddler I ofter had to be on my toes with her. She learned with time that when babies are on the floor that she needs to be more careful.
Understanding on both sides goes a long way. We have whats called the Early Years Center here and kids older then 18 months are not allowed into the infants room for just this reason. As much as moms try accidents do happen, and this helps make those accidents much less likly. I remember one little one had a truck dropped on his head and the poor little one needed stitches That was back when DD#1 was small.

DD#1 was almost 3 when DD#2 was born and so we stayed out of the infants room. Sometimes a worker would take DD#1 so I could take DD#2 to the infant room to play when she got older. She LOVED playing on the mat, especially with any dangly toys. But it wasn't safe with todders running around. We loved when the room was all babies and then they would all be able to play on the floor. A welcome brake for my back and arms


Although I do have to say, why should another mother have to pick up a perfictly happy and content playing baby just so a toddler can play. Thats not really right either. Middle ground needs to be found. There is nothing wrong with putting a child who is happy to do it, down to play on a playmat so mom can have a few minutes brake. I have back problems and when DD got big enough I started letting her play on playmats, or in the stroller when she was contented to do so. I would be as offended if asked that as you are about your LO being seen as unsafe. *I am NOT saying she is, just using an example*

While I don't think you, or anyone with an older child needs to control a happy playing toddler, and unless there is a real danger they should generally be allowed to explore and play, I also don't think that its right to tell moms of babies that they should "just pick the baby up" Not everyone can hold a baby all the times. I know I can't. Especially with 2 children. As much as I would love to it causes me great physical pain. Pain that is unbareble at times.

So middle ground needs to be found. Maybe finding a way to block older kids from the babies untill they're old enough to know how to be really gentle.

I do think on another note, that a group for older kids is a great idea. Not only can you share your EBF experiences, but maybe even help them do it as well, AND your children can all play while adults have some adult time (always a good thing) Maybe its a great way to further spead the EBF message? or tandom since at some point. We need more good examples of that.

[evenstarlight]

Yes, sorry I didn't mean that toddlers should be allowed to run amock and mothers need to just hold their babies....but, I think if a mother is feeling particularily vulnerable, she may just communicate this by picking up her baby and there can be some give and take. I suppose my reasoning is, that in a situation where there will inevitably be toddlers about, perhaps the health visitors and volunteers can step in and hold the babies. There are plenty of other opportunties for babies to get happy floor time. Maybe due to circumstances, this isn't one of them.

There never actually was an incident with my daughter bumping into a baby or knocking a baby. I always intervened if I felt she was getting too close....but their complaint was that she was "unsupervised" and that she "almost did". The reality is, they are going to have to come up with a plan if they want the group to work because more mothers will be coming with older childen, and may be breastfeeding for the first time and need the support of the younger baby group still and not feel ready to join the older baby group just because they have older children.

It's actually not in an actual cafe...it's in a children's centre and lunch is provided. They also weight the babies as well, so I think a lof of mothers just use it as an alternative place to meet up and weight babies...which is fine...but they really did not seem at all interested in breastfeeding support.

The one mother who I suspect was the letter writer, has made comments like "If i had to do it again, I wouldn't breastfeed" and also, seemed pretty put off by my daughter having a very quick feed once after a bump.

I'm vacilating from being really annoyed and angry about it, and not being bothered.

[G8P4]

I've been on both sides of this one, with my first baby, not being able to appreciate "normal" toddler behaviour and having the natural desire to protect my infant, and then, having the toddler that other mothers glared at and didn't appreciate. Toddlers are a hard stage, and the world is not set up to be toddler-friendly. It's sad, I think.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by evenstarlight

The one mother who I suspect was the letter writer, has made comments like "If i had to do it again, I wouldn't breastfeed" and also, seemed pretty put off by my daughter having a very quick feed once after a bump.

This is at a BFing support group? Is this woman one of the people managing the group? I think they need to get to work writing a mission statement or list of BFing guidelines they support/plan to promote. It sounds awfully disorganized the way it's set up now.

[elanorh]

If I were you, I would contact the health visitors and tell them that, having had some time to reflect on your discussion, you think it that it is important that they come to a decision about how to handle toddlers at these meetings in the future. There are many mothers who end up with a newborn and an 18 month old. Are those mothers supposed to attend the toddler meetings? What if she never nursed her first child and needs newborn nursing support?

Either they need to have a "Moms of more than one kid" meeting, for those who may have older toddler children, and a "Moms with infants under 12 months and no other children" meeting for the moms of babes -- OR they need to set up more specific guidelines/expectations for the mothers at their current meetings, in terms of how to handle having toddlers there etc.

I suspect that there may have been some discomfort about the fact that you had an older nursling there (which really stinks) and this was a way to politely remove that uncomfortableness. If they, or some of the mothers, were uncomfortable, I can see them feeling that they needed to create an atmosphere which encourages those mothers to continue breastfeeding -- since you're obviously committed! As in, prioritize the ones most likely to falter....

I have worried about the same issue here. There's no LLL here, and I'd like to be a leader and start a group one day. Keep working towards your LLL Leader position, I think your sensitivity to what others' comfort levels was/is, as well as your dedication to role modeling and supporting regardless, bode well for the LLL group you hope to start. And who knows -- if it's true that a mother or two there was uncomfortable with 'extended' nursing -- maybe one of those mothers, with a nursing toddler in tow, will find herself looking for and finding the support she needs at your LLL group.

[yoginisarah]

I think it is just ridiculous considering that there was never actually an incident of your daughter hurting (even accidentally) another baby. I loved my babies being around older kids because they learn so much from them. I stayed close to help if needed but I don't get the whole keeping babies separate from toddlers mentality. I think you handled it really well and even if others were uncomfortable with your nursing at least they have now had a little exposure and hopefully the seed is planted.

[teale]

Originally Posted by limabean

This is at a BFing support group? Is this woman one of the people managing the group? I think they need to get to work writing a mission statement or list of BFing guidelines they support/plan to promote. It sounds awfully disorganized the way it's set up now.

Yeah, I wondered about this too.

I've found that sometimes people see the word "playdate" only when the group is pretty specific. A group I'm involved in here, has had some issues with people understanding that we're not just a playgroup that hangs out, but we are specifically coming together under a similar cause. We've changed the name, and addressed some the issues, but people still only see "playdate".

If this is the idea or purpose of the group, I'd make sure that some guidelines are established. I wonder though if the women didn't complain about your toddler as much as she complained because she isn't familiar with extended breastfeeding.

I would suggest running a toddler group, and maybe occasionally mixing both groups just to make sure all Mama's get together, despite age of child.