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Freaking out about swine flu vaccine, can anyone make me feel better? - Page 2  

post #21 of 341
I really hope that if things go to hell in a handbasket this is when the celebrities will step up and we can back them. There are quite a few very well known that do not vax and I cannot imagine them not fighting tooth and nail.

I agree the whole thing is scary ...

Legal immunity set for swine flu vaccine makers
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090718/..._med_swine_flu
post #22 of 341
Most of the reports I've read/heard seem to indicate that they will not have *enough* of the vaccine so I have serious doubts they'd be able to make it mandatory. If it's similar in production to the usual influenza vaccine that would mean you couldn't have it if you had an egg allergy...one could always develop an allergy to eggs...
post #23 of 341
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pampered_mom View Post
Most of the reports I've read/heard seem
to indicate that they will not have *enough* of the vaccine so I have serious doubts they'd be able to make it mandatory. If it's similar in production to the usual influenza vaccine that would mean you couldn't have it if you had an egg allergy...one could always develop an allergy to eggs...


Good idea about the egg allergy! lol
post #24 of 341
I think if they make it mandatory for anybody other than school children there will be uprising in the streets.

There are lots of people out there who may have never given vaccines a second thought, may not have children of their own, but have an extreme distrust of government. They are not going to take too kindly to "Hi, I am from the government and I am here to inject this into you."

All of the anarchists, the conspiracy theorists, the backwoods militias will completely freak out.

For some reason there are a lot of people who are ok with kids being forced to be vaccinated, but don't want anybody forcing a vaccine on themselves.

I am not too concerned because I live in Alberta, we currently have zero vaccine requirements for school, and forced vaccination is considered to be unconstitutional. And my kid is only one, so school attendance isn't an issue. I fear for the health of all of the people who are going to eagerly roll up their sleeves, but I highly doubt we will get into a mandatory situation here.

Anybody want to come and rent out my basement?
post #25 of 341
I'm in Alberta too but I have 1 LO in school so I am a bit worried. Every fall they have a health unit come out to the school to give out vaxes flu and boosters, this year probably SF too. We are a rural community so it's not just for the school. They send home forms for permission to vax first but I am worried they would make a mistake. So this year I am keeping him home on vax day. I forgot last year but they didn't make a mistake. He also knows that no one is allowed to give him a needle of any type no matter who it is unless we are there with him.

I am a bit worried he will miss a lot of school if there is an outbreak in the school. Though I am not sure if AB has the rules about unvaxed kids not being allowed in school during outbreaks.

Apparently Canada is one of the few countries with the capacity to produce enough of the vaccine for it's population. But what most likely will happen is that the extra will go to the US.
post #26 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by ammiga View Post
That is a .005% death rate. I bet catching the swine flu is safer than flying in a plane.
No, it's not. It's a 0.56% death rate, not 0.005%.

According to this website: http://www.livescience.com/environme..._of_dying.html

your chance of dying in an air travel accident is 1 in 20,000 or 0.005%. So you are 100x more likely to die of the swine flu (if you contract it) than you are to die in an air travel accident (if you decide to go on an airplane).

The 1918 flu had a roughly 1.5% death rate.

If a significant proportion of the population contracts the flu and a portion of those people need hospitalization, respirators, ICU, etc. there will be insufficient resources for them and the death rate will rise.

Are we at freakout level risk of dying from swine flu? No, of course not. But an attempt should be made to state the facts accurately. The death rate in the U.S. (and it's pretty much the same worldwide) is approximately 0.5% based on current reported numbers.

Of course, there can be inaccuracies in the reported numbers, but it's what we've got to work with.

I'm not planning to get the vaccine or get it for my family, but I'd still like to be somewhat realistic about the risks of the flu.
post #27 of 341
How can those numbers be anywhere near accurate? The flu is so mild in most cases that it's no different than a mild cold. Some people are not even seeking treatment and don't even realize it's SF and not just a cold. How can they even guess at the real number of cases when so many go unreported.
post #28 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post
How can those numbers be anywhere near accurate? The flu is so mild in most cases that it's no different than a mild cold. Some people are not even seeking treatment and don't even realize it's SF and not just a cold. How can they even guess at the real number of cases when so many go unreported.
They can't. That's why they're not reporting a death rate, just the raw data that they have.

I should also add that the statistic I posted above for the risk of dying in an air travel accident was the lifetime risk. The risk on any individual flight would be much lower.
post #29 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romana View Post
The death rate in the U.S. (and it's pretty much the same worldwide) is approximately 0.5% based on current reported numbers.

Please don't scare yourself (and others) by jumping to a .5% death rate conclusion based on the 'reported cases' numbers. No one can possibly guess at how many have come in contact with the swine flu and recovered without incidence.
post #30 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by ammiga View Post
That is a .005% death rate. I bet catching the swine flu is safer than flying in a plane.
I wonder how many of that .05% were already sick with something else, immune compromised, or otherwise unhealthy (poor weight, bad nutrition, unsanitary living conditions, etc) When they throw the death rate out there I always want to know, WHICH people. Even if it WAS .05% ALL healthy people I wouldn't be interested in the vaccine, but I have a feeling that .05% wasn't a majority of people in their best possible health to begin with.
post #31 of 341
.005%....not .05%

post #32 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post
How can those numbers be anywhere near accurate? The flu is so mild in most cases that it's no different than a mild cold. Some people are not even seeking treatment and don't even realize it's SF and not just a cold. How can they even guess at the real number of cases when so many go unreported.
That's exactly right. Not everyone runs to the doctor evry time they get a sniffle because doctors cannot fix a cold or flu. These numbers don't mean much.

I wonder how much money the drug makers are going to make off the vaccine? Now that's a number I'd be interested to see.
post #33 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen78fl View Post
Anyway, I already know that the people who first get this vaccine are probably going to get sick with who knows what and then hopefully they will pull it from the market. Its sad that it has to happen this way but I guess thats just how its going to be..
imo that will not happen. Big pHARMa learned from 1918 when people got severe side effects to the vaccine. That was why the swine vax program (propaganda) was discontinued. That will not happen this time.

What I think they are planning on is that people will come down with flu like symptoms and they will use that to spread more vaccine propaganda. It will lead to more people vaccinating and more people getting severely ill or dying. The following years, the swine flu vax will become mandatory and everyone will believe it is necessary since they'll have the "statistics".

I do hope people wake up soon and see what is really happening.
post #34 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13Sandals View Post
Please don't scare yourself (and others) by jumping to a .5% death rate conclusion based on the 'reported cases' numbers. No one can possibly guess at how many have come in contact with the swine flu and recovered without incidence.
First of all, I'm not scared. Anyone who is scared is either being irrational or not paying enough attention. I'm neither scared of vaccines, nor am I scared of the flu. I refuse, however, to agree to either blow it off or become obsessed. And it is only appropriate to correct the mathematical error committed by the PP who stated a 0.005% death rate based on the available numbers.

I immediately acknowledged (above) that this is not a reliable death rate due to the way in which the numbers are reported and noted that no official "death rate" has been published because it cannot be determined based on the available data. However, stating it is a "0.005%" death rate based on those numbers is simply a mathematical error, and I pointed that out. You cannot have it both ways (general you) by saying "It's only 0.005% based on the #s! No big deal!" and also say "It's not 0.5% because you can't use those #s!" The error required correction/clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommysarah5 View Post
I wonder how many of that .05% were already sick with something else, immune compromised, or otherwise unhealthy (poor weight, bad nutrition, unsanitary living conditions, etc) When they throw the death rate out there I always want to know, WHICH people. Even if it WAS .05% ALL healthy people I wouldn't be interested in the vaccine, but I have a feeling that .05% wasn't a majority of people in their best possible health to begin with.
According to what I have read from the CDC, WHO, and state health agencies, approximately 50% of the fatalities had other health conditions that may have contributed to their deaths. Some of those conditions include (not at the same time) pregnancy and asthma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaS View Post
.005%....not .05%

No, 0.5%. Since there is so much confusion, here is how you calculate the "death rate" from the reported numbers quoted earlier in this thread:

211 / 37,246 = 0.005665 x 100 = 0.5665% =~ 0.57%

Technically if using one digit we should be rounding up to 0.6%, but I didn't bother to do that.

ETA: There have been some comments from health authorities that there may have been as many as 1 million H1N1 infections in the United States. If that is the case, and if every single H1N1-related death was reported in the 211 accounted for, the death rate would be 0.02%. You can probably pretty safely say that the death rate is somewhere between 0.02% and 0.6%, for whatever good that may do.
post #35 of 341
Thread Starter 
So if they do vaccinate school children with the swine flu vaccine, it will be on a certain day and they will let you know when that day is? I was just worried that they might just do it and not give any advance notice. I would gladly keep my son home if they gave me a certain day...
post #36 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen78fl View Post
So if they do vaccinate school children with the swine flu vaccine, it will be on a certain day and they will let you know when that day is? I was just worried that they might just do it and not give any advance notice. I would gladly keep my son home if they gave me a certain day...


The article below states that one swine flu vaccine manufacturer is planning on making it available as Flu Mist or dropper form for the nose. That means it would be a live virus which is capable of shedding. If the schools are going to be using Flu Mist, then I would say it would be necessary to miss more than just the day the vaccines are given. The article also states that more than one dose may be necessary, which then will increase the chance for exposure.:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090724/...ne_flu_vaccine
post #37 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParisApril View Post
That's exactly right. Not everyone runs to the doctor evry time they get a sniffle because doctors cannot fix a cold or flu. These numbers don't mean much.
Exactly. It is estimated to be in the MILLIONS - people who have been exposed to swine flu that is. The death rate quoted (.5) SEEMS high only because it has taken into account CONFIRMED cases. There are actually millions more cases.. people who were never sick enough to go to the dr, or get tested. Actual chance of dying from it is probably closer to the .005 quoted. But you can't "prove" any number really. IT is safe to say its pretty rare any way you look at it.

Quote:
I wonder how much money the drug makers are going to make off the vaccine? Now that's a number I'd be interested to see.
in the BILLIONS, according to an article I recently read. Not sure how they figured that, but I guess if they are planning to vaccinate a billion people worldwide (only using this figure for illustrative purposes), it stands to reason they'd make at least a billion bucks, no?

ETA: found the link: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/375dde06-7...44feabdc0.html

I'd love to see people stand up and come together to resist this and see them lose money instead of make money. Would teach them a big lesson!
post #38 of 341
"Public Health Agency of Canada officials acknowledged last week there won't be time for a swine flu vaccine to go through standard safety testing before immunizations begin in autumn. The first doses are expected to be available in three to four months."

An interesting line from a July 21st article in the Winnipeg Free Press. Full story here.
post #39 of 341
Did anyone post the ingredient list of the swine flu shot?

Here it is -

http://www.**********/general86/list.htm

(Sorry if this is a repeat)
post #40 of 341
That list is for the H5N1 bird flu. They incorrectly labeled it on that site.
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