or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Teacher took photos of dc without our knowledge/consent. WWYD?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Teacher took photos of dc without our knowledge/consent. WWYD? - Page 6

post #101 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWillow View Post
no, not coming from that angle at all-- quite the opposite. I don't give a fig about whether she's appropriately groomed or a superstar. It's an ethical issue. Let's say some anti- (insert political issue dear to your heart here) group used your kid's image to promote their agenda and solicit donations. It's not that far from what happened in my case, but just in theory. I didn't mind photos being taken for stuff that stays in school and is just for class parents. But this bothered me. The center didn't turn out to be a good pace. They should have asked so I could ask DD; it's about respecting her privacy and safety as well. I definitely would have wanted her to have a say in the mass publication of her image and personal info.
Well in your example this would be illegal because it was being used for advertising purposes, but different laws apply to newspapers. If you were walking through a demonstration for some anti-political whatever, then your image could be used in an article or with a caption about that event. Yes the photo and the caption are advertising for the center, but because they are published by the paper as news they legally fall under the journalism domain and don't require a release. The center doesn't have any control over which photos get used in the paper, the photographer may not even have any control over which photos get used in the paper, it's frequently an editor's decision.
post #102 of 130
From a legal standpoint I believe it's OK to take pictures without asking permission, but if they wanted to publish them (i.e. use it in a brochure/website for marketing purposes) then they would need to ask your written permission.

They could just be using it for a classroom project in which case I don't think permission is required.
post #103 of 130
Eh, doesn't bother me at all. Standard procedure to take pix of the kids to do a year end scrapbook and put their pix on the walls.
post #104 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceili View Post
Well in your example this would be illegal because it was being used for advertising purposes, but different laws apply to newspapers. If you were walking through a demonstration for some anti-political whatever, then your image could be used in an article or with a caption about that event. Yes the photo and the caption are advertising for the center, but because they are published by the paper as news they legally fall under the journalism domain and don't require a release. The center doesn't have any control over which photos get used in the paper, the photographer may not even have any control over which photos get used in the paper, it's frequently an editor's decision.
except the workshop wasn't in a public place, it was inside a privately-owned, for-profit center used for daycare and educational workshops, which I paid to send DD to. The center asked the paper to come take pictures to spread the word about their workshops. The center is private property, and they certainly do have control over who comes in taking pictures! It wasn't like an egg hunt at a public park.
post #105 of 130
[QUOTE=fork;14098083]Except this is flat out wrong. In a public place, or a private place with owners permission, you can take a picture of who or whatever you want (with very few exceptions), including children. You can check out your rights as a photographer here: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Permission is only needed to sell/use for advertising pictures of people or children and sometimes property.

The press works differently. They DO NOT need your permission to publish a picture of you, the front of your house, your kid, or really anything. If a member of the press is at your kid's school to cover an event, your kid may just end up in the paper, and there is really nothing you can do about it except keep them home or away from the activities.

School policies are not laws. In most cases they are there to prevent lawsuits. They follow the opt out forms so strictly because they don't want to get sued if they post a picture of a kid in the school newsletter and abusive dad find outs where the family lives and causes harm.[/QUOTE

The laws are really not all that clear and some parts of the law vary from state to state. the point is that, regardless of what's LEGAL, as a parent I should have a say about what goes on in a day care or class I send my kid to. It's perfectly legal for them to stick her in the corner facing the wall, for example, as punishment, but I wouldn;'t allow that either. It's about what's acceptable. We make plenty of choices for our kids regardless of what's legal! I mean, it's legal for the principals of schools in many states to paddle children without asking a parent. so what? I'd file a lawsuit anyway if it happened to my kid. that's how laws change. legality is irrelevant, IMO.
post #106 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWillow View Post
The laws are really not all that clear and some parts of the law vary from state to state. the point is that, regardless of what's LEGAL, as a parent I should have a say about what goes on in a day care or class I send my kid to. It's perfectly legal for them to stick her in the corner facing the wall, for example, as punishment, but I wouldn;'t allow that either. It's about what's acceptable. We make plenty of choices for our kids regardless of what's legal! I mean, it's legal for the principals of schools in many states to paddle children without asking a parent. so what? I'd file a lawsuit anyway if it happened to my kid. that's how laws change. legality is irrelevant, IMO.
IMHO it would have been very appropriate, though not legally required, for the center to notify parents that they have invited a newspaper to come document the day's activities on X date and to let them know if you do not wish to participate. Again IMHO, your center did wrong by the parents. And I'm sure you let them know, so hopefully they will do differently next time.
post #107 of 130
I hope you don't misunderstand. I wasn't making a moral judgement either way. You have every right to be as protective as you want to be with your kids, I was just letting you know that you really have no legal ground.

I end up with some pictures of kids, and 99% of the time when I take a picture of someone (kid or adult) I go up and talk to them about it, give them my card, etc. Only once did someone have a problem with it and they politely asked me to delete any pictures with their kid in them. I had no problem respecting their wishes, but if I had wanted to keep the picture for some reason there was nothing they could do about it.

I try to be polite and respectful of people. If one knew what to search for they could find a VERY unflattering picture of me on the Detroit News website from an event that I was at. So I fully understand people wanting to control their image.

ETA: If you are concerned about your child's picture being taken while at school/daycare/summer camp I would talk to the people in charge before you even enroll and let them know your concern. They might have an opt out form for you, or they might tell you that it's too much work for them to check every picture for your kid. This way you know what to expect, and if they don't want to fallow your wishes you could take your child else ware. Treat it the way you would treat anything else regarding the care of your child, such as food, discipline, etc. You could even let them know that you want your child removed from the area if the press shows up. You can't control what the press does, but the school can remove your child from the area so that they don't end up in any pictures. School's aren't mind readers and most parents are okay with pictures being taken, just like most parents are okay with candy being handed out, or time outs being used. It's up to you to let them know what you want, and make the decision to remove your child from the program if the program chooses not to follow your wishes.
post #108 of 130
I know that when I taught, we *always* sent home a separate, specific paper for parent's consent for taking photos/video of the dc. I would just talk with the teacher about it.
post #109 of 130
Thread Starter 
Thank you so much for your suppport and information regarding the laws. We are actually home schooling but now I am better prepared when it comes to enrol for some enrichment courses.

There was no photo waiver on the enrollment form and they made the photos for their new website and facebook/youtube promotion (a little film clip).
The teacher was apologetic and said no names would/are being be used.

Current enrollment forms seem to have a photo waiver, but not when we enrolled last year. For the day summercamps we just paid the fee and that was it (no extra paperwork).

DC loves the arts school, the teachers and the other kids are great.
Frankly, what bothers me most is the timing of the photos. Normally me or other mums are somehow present, or just having a longer chat in the hallways.. and when no one of us is present, then snap...... pictures takes. That's probably just a coincidence.
post #110 of 130
Is she taking her picture off. I think that taking pictures for your own use, or the class's use (e.g. so you can remember how you did an activity, as part of professional portfolio you show potential employers, documentation panels, to make a class book) is entirely different from taking pictures and posting them. I would definitely ask

I didn't sign photo releases for my child for a long time when he was little he attended a program for medically fragile kids that did a lot of photo ops for fundraising. He'd come home with little stickers that said "Please don't take my picture", but that didn't stop them from taking his picture to stick in a frame and send home with him for the holidays -- nor would I want it to.

At his current school I used to not sign the release and we'd get newsletters home with pictures of the whole class and a blurry blob where my child had been. It actually took me a while to figure out why there were blurry blobs and finally I got it. They left him out of the newletter because it went to donors, but he still had his picture on the birthday wall and things like that.
post #111 of 130
When I worked at a preschool over one summer in college, I took pictures of my group of kids on my last day of work. And, yes, I took them home. It was a way for me to remember my time with them, they really meant a lot to me.

Your kids will have relationships with other people that have nothing to do with you (especially if you put them in school/clubs/activities). Of course we want to protect our kids, but at them same time we have to let other people enjoy them for the wonderful people they are.

I can understand being upset about your kid's picture and name being printed in the paper without your consent. But for teachers taking pictures for the classroom or for memories? I don't get why that would be a problem. I don't think my daughter belongs to me (in a possessive way), and I don't think her image belongs to me either.
post #112 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by summermay View Post
Thank you so much for your suppport and information regarding the laws. We are actually home schooling but now I am better prepared when it comes to enrol for some enrichment courses.

There was no photo waiver on the enrollment form and they made the photos for their new website and facebook/youtube promotion (a little film clip).
The teacher was apologetic and said no names would/are being be used.

Current enrollment forms seem to have a photo waiver, but not when we enrolled last year. For the day summercamps we just paid the fee and that was it (no extra paperwork).

DC loves the arts school, the teachers and the other kids are great.
Frankly, what bothers me most is the timing of the photos. Normally me or other mums are somehow present, or just having a longer chat in the hallways.. and when no one of us is present, then snap...... pictures takes. That's probably just a coincidence.
Good that they have the waiver now. I would be upset, not furious, but definitely affected and I don't think you're overreacting. Some of us just don't like photos public, name or not. Now, when people ask my permission, that's different.
post #113 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockycrop View Post
When I worked at a preschool over one summer in college, I took pictures of my group of kids on my last day of work. And, yes, I took them home. It was a way for me to remember my time with them, they really meant a lot to me.

Your kids will have relationships with other people that have nothing to do with you (especially if you put them in school/clubs/activities). Of course we want to protect our kids, but at them same time we have to let other people enjoy them for the wonderful people they are.

I can understand being upset about your kid's picture and name being printed in the paper without your consent. But for teachers taking pictures for the classroom or for memories? I don't get why that would be a problem. I don't think my daughter belongs to me (in a possessive way), and I don't think her image belongs to me either.
I still look fondly back on the pictures I took of the kids my last day as their pre-school teacher (a looooonnngg time ago!). I cared about each and every one of them and didn't want to forget them.
post #114 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockycrop View Post
When I worked at a preschool over one summer in college, I took pictures of my group of kids on my last day of work. And, yes, I took them home. It was a way for me to remember my time with them, they really meant a lot to me.

Your kids will have relationships with other people that have nothing to do with you (especially if you put them in school/clubs/activities). Of course we want to protect our kids, but at them same time we have to let other people enjoy them for the wonderful people they are.

I can understand being upset about your kid's picture and name being printed in the paper without your consent. But for teachers taking pictures for the classroom or for memories? I don't get why that would be a problem. I don't think my daughter belongs to me (in a possessive way), and I don't think her image belongs to me either.
In my previous post I explained that I respect my daughter as her own entity; I would never claim to possess her or her image. I think her image belongs to her, and that she should have a say in its purposeful publication.

I don't "have to" let anyone do anything with her, actually. I help her choose her activities and educational environment based on my judgment as her parent, because these things are good for her, but I do quietly keep an eye on the relationships she develops with the adults in her life. You know those parents who are so helpful, who volunteer their time, make copies for you, clean up after the holiday parties? We're watching you.

I've asked permission before to keep a special photo of a student and myself that was taken organically, as part of a special event or activity. But it creeps me out a bit, the idea of taking a picture for oneself that the parent never is intended to see and will never know about. I wouldn't feel it was my right. How about male teachers? My preteen daughter comes home and tells me Mr. Smith took a special picture of her "to remember her by" and I shouldn't raise an eyebrow because I have to let other people enjoy her? I don't think the standards should be any different for women working with younger children. It's wonderful for teachers, nannies, etc. to be kind to children, to guide them, to develop affection even for certain kids, that's inevitable. But hands off - they aren't yours. Yeah, they're not their parents' in terms of "ownership" either -- ultimately they are their own. But I never kid myself when working with children. They're not mine, and I would rather err on the side of respect for the children than get possessive myself. It doesn't keep me from being great with kids.
post #115 of 130
I sis not read all the responses, so my apologies if I am repeating what someone else already said. In our experience, the teacher and daycare have taken pics of our kids. The pictures were used in arts/crafts projects like ornaments or saved for later scrapbooks that were given to us parents at the end of the semester.

Paula
post #116 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWillow View Post
In my previous post I explained that I respect my daughter as her own entity; I would never claim to possess her or her image. I think her image belongs to her, and that she should have a say in its purposeful publication.

I don't "have to" let anyone do anything with her, actually. I help her choose her activities and educational environment based on my judgment as her parent, because these things are good for her, but I do quietly keep an eye on the relationships she develops with the adults in her life. You know those parents who are so helpful, who volunteer their time, make copies for you, clean up after the holiday parties? We're watching you.

I've asked permission before to keep a special photo of a student and myself that was taken organically, as part of a special event or activity. But it creeps me out a bit, the idea of taking a picture for oneself that the parent never is intended to see and will never know about. I wouldn't feel it was my right. How about male teachers? My preteen daughter comes home and tells me Mr. Smith took a special picture of her "to remember her by" and I shouldn't raise an eyebrow because I have to let other people enjoy her? I don't think the standards should be any different for women working with younger children. It's wonderful for teachers, nannies, etc. to be kind to children, to guide them, to develop affection even for certain kids, that's inevitable. But hands off - they aren't yours. Yeah, they're not their parents' in terms of "ownership" either -- ultimately they are their own. But I never kid myself when working with children. They're not mine, and I would rather err on the side of respect for the children than get possessive myself. It doesn't keep me from being great with kids.
I think your perspective is a bit off. A teacher taking a photo of a child isn't akin to someone taking some kind of child porn photo, which seems to be what you're equating it to. And you putting "to remember it by" in quotation marks as if that's code language for something wrong is off too. No one thinks someone else's child is theirs, but that doesn't mean they don't also have a relationship with your child, and it's reasonable for teachers to want a way to remember the kids who have been in their class. It has nothing to do with possessiveness and there are not nefarious intentions when a teacher takes photos of his/her class.
post #117 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWillow View Post
except the workshop wasn't in a public place, it was inside a privately-owned, for-profit center used for daycare and educational workshops, which I paid to send DD to. The center asked the paper to come take pictures to spread the word about their workshops. The center is private property, and they certainly do have control over who comes in taking pictures! It wasn't like an egg hunt at a public park.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWillow View Post
The laws are really not all that clear and some parts of the law vary from state to state. the point is that, regardless of what's LEGAL, as a parent I should have a say about what goes on in a day care or class I send my kid to. It's perfectly legal for them to stick her in the corner facing the wall, for example, as punishment, but I wouldn;'t allow that either. It's about what's acceptable. We make plenty of choices for our kids regardless of what's legal! I mean, it's legal for the principals of schools in many states to paddle children without asking a parent. so what? I'd file a lawsuit anyway if it happened to my kid. that's how laws change. legality is irrelevant, IMO.
It's still a "public place" as in a place that the public is allowed, not in the sense of a publicly owned place. After the center invites the paper to come photograph they lose control over what pictures make it into the paper. Should they have notified you before hand, yes, but legally speaking they did not need to. If this is an issue for you then this is something you need to ask about up front. For example I always ask about how discipline issues are handled because that is something that I am concerned about and I recognize that I deal with things differently than what is considered mainstream. I always ask about snacks/food because again my views don't always coincide with mainstream america and I think it's better to be proactive about things than to be upset later.

Yes it would have been nice if they had told you they had invited a newspaper photographer to the center on that day, but legally they weren't required to and most people don't have an issue with their kid's picture being taken so it probably didn't occur to anyone. It's a pretty normal occurrence. At my kid's t-ball games I think every parent at the place had a camera and no one asked me for a photo release.
post #118 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
I think your perspective is a bit off. A teacher taking a photo of a child isn't akin to someone taking some kind of child porn photo, which seems to be what you're equating it to. And you putting "to remember it by" in quotation marks as if that's code language for something wrong is off too. No one thinks someone else's child is theirs, but that doesn't mean they don't also have a relationship with your child, and it's reasonable for teachers to want a way to remember the kids who have been in their class. It has nothing to do with possessiveness and there are not nefarious intentions when a teacher takes photos of his/her class.
Well, then, it's a real shame they fired the teacher at our local high school after they found his treasured memories in his cell phone. Let's just say it wasn't the kids' faces he wanted to remember them by.

I wasn't talking about child porn, FTR. That's a world of ick away from what I was talking about. I already said I've requested parental permission to keep photos now and then, just think it's better to keep regular group-type pics rather than have them pose especially for me. I don't think avoiding the appearance of impropriety is "off" when some parents just don't like their kids being photographed. That's my opinion.
post #119 of 130
I guess I still don't even see the "safety" issue of it. I see pictures of hundreds (or thousands) of kids every day, in magazines, on websites, in newspapaers, everywhere - I wonder why they're not safe now? Hm. Maybe this is along the lines of people being afraid to put a birth announcement in the paper three days after baby is born? Because they think someone is reading those, ready to steal babies (instead of waiting outside maternity wards or driving randomly in millions of neighborhoods looking for storks and balloons?). What a fear to have to live with on a daily basis! Wowza!

I guess I'm way laid back. I'd be flattered if my kids' images were to show up in Russia in a restaurant's advertisements! LOL!
post #120 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraS View Post
I guess I still don't even see the "safety" issue of it. I see pictures of hundreds (or thousands) of kids every day, in magazines, on websites, in newspapaers, everywhere - I wonder why they're not safe now?
There is a remote possibility that a child might be abducted due to a photograph, though you really do have to have more than just a random image. When I worked at a newspaper, the rule was you never put an image, a name, and a regular location (somewhere you could predict the child you be again) together. The thought was IF someone were after a child, giving those 3 piece of info would allow a stranger to walk up to the targeted child in that place and say "Hi John. Your mom/teacher/Sunday School teacher sent me to get you" and a child would be more likely to follow instructions.

Of course, those women and children who have fled abusive husbands, smugglers, controlling families or such have another entirely valid layer of concern. And it is those people that the rules about asking permission before using a photo is intended to protect. If your abusive ex saw a photo of your child in an ad for ABC Preschool, he would know exactly where to stock you.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Teacher took photos of dc without our knowledge/consent. WWYD?