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Teacher took photos of dc without our knowledge/consent. WWYD? - Page 5

post #81 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWillow View Post
I think it's great that some people and their kids enjoy being in the paper. Of course my kid enjoyed it, but this group used an image of my child's face to promote their business. They made MONEY off her whether she minded or not; they didn't care to ask her or me for permission. Frankly, I don't understand the resistance here to *some* parents having an issue with stuff like this. it bothers me. so what? To me this is an issue of my kid's rights to some sort of control over the use of her image. The content of advertising images in the U.S often promote social norms I (or DD) disagrees with-- white privilege, male privilege, gender stereotypes, heterosexism, the list goes on. It's part of my parenting philosophy to respect her physical self, and I guess photographic representations of her, in MY humble, personal, and rightful opinion as her parent, fall under the same idea. maybe that's not how most people think, but most people think people who EBF, cosleep, CD, homebirth etc are crazy too. *shrug*
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I have a real issue with people taking photos of me or my child without asking. Call me weird, but to me, it's an issue of privacy and respect. Sure we go out in public all of the time and anyone can see us--but that's different than someone getting to produce a permanent image in the likeness of one of us. Don't get me wrong--I love photos--I just don't want anyone else taking them of us without asking. This goes for family members as well. Of course I want our family to have pictures of us and our little one, but they need to ask or let me know first.

Seriously, my in-laws are the rudest, most obnoxious people when it comes to cameras and photos. You can't walk in their door without at least two cameras coming at you, snapping in your face, and then capturing every moment/action of your time there (and they only live 7 miles from us--we see them several times a week. they are not like this because we only see them occasionally, in which case I might have a bit more understanding). It is rude and disrespectful, and after trying to politely explain why I didn't like it, I got rather, um, forceful and told them they weren't taking any photos of my child, period. They got the point and for the most part they now ask, which was all I really wanted. I recently had another incident with my in-laws, however, when they forced my child to pose with my nieces for a photo of all of their grandkids. Now, I'm ok that they wanted this photo, it would have been cute--but, without me or my husband there (dh was there but outside), my child was forced to do something he was uncomfortable with without regard to his feelings. I can't tell you how shocked and scared my little boy looks in that photo (I'm sure he just didn't want to sit still, and they made him sit anyway, which confused and upset him). I burst into tears when I saw the look on my baby's face. I felt so helpless and that I wasn't there to say "no!" for my child.

I digress. My point is, is I think it's quite reasonable if you want permission before people take photos of your child. I wouldn't have a problem with photos being taken of my child in a classroom setting--if I was told first and asked for permission. As far as newspapers/other publications, I would be rather hostile if a photo of my child (along with a full name!) turned up in one without permission. My issue with my in-laws is one of respect, but the issue with the newspaper could be one of safety for the family and child. As far as I know, that's illegal (though I'm not exactly sure). I have a friend who is a journalist/photographer for our local paper, and he always has to get permission and full name of those he photographs if he intends to publish the image. Maybe this is just his paper's policy, I'm not sure.
post #82 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWillow View Post
it may be common to *take* pictures, but to use them for advertising purposes without written permission is most definitely not. and technically many schools DO require permission even for the taking of the photos. seriously, using your kids in an ad without asking you, normal? that's illegal.
how is using a photo on a the front of a newspaper advertising?
post #83 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie View Post
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I have a real issue with people taking photos of me or my child without asking. Call me weird, but to me, it's an issue of privacy and respect. Sure we go out in public all of the time and anyone can see us--but that's different than someone getting to produce a permanent image in the likeness of one of us. Don't get me wrong--I love photos--I just don't want anyone else taking them of us without asking. This goes for family members as well. Of course I want our family to have pictures of us and our little one, but they need to ask or let me know first.

Seriously, my in-laws are the rudest, most obnoxious people when it comes to cameras and photos. You can't walk in their door without at least two cameras coming at you, snapping in your face, and then capturing every moment/action of your time there (and they only live 7 miles from us--we see them several times a week. they are not like this because we only see them occasionally, in which case I might have a bit more understanding). It is rude and disrespectful, and after trying to politely explain why I didn't like it, I got rather, um, forceful and told them they weren't taking any photos of my child, period. They got the point and for the most part they now ask, which was all I really wanted. I recently had another incident with my in-laws, however, when they forced my child to pose with my nieces for a photo of all of their grandkids. Now, I'm ok that they wanted this photo, it would have been cute--but, without me or my husband there (dh was there but outside), my child was forced to do something he was uncomfortable with without regard to his feelings. I can't tell you how shocked and scared my little boy looks in that photo (I'm sure he just didn't want to sit still, and they made him sit anyway, which confused and upset him). I burst into tears when I saw the look on my baby's face. I felt so helpless and that I wasn't there to say "no!" for my child.

I digress. My point is, is I think it's quite reasonable if you want permission before people take photos of your child. I wouldn't have a problem with photos being taken of my child in a classroom setting--if I was told first and asked for permission. As far as newspapers/other publications, I would be rather hostile if a photo of my child (along with a full name!) turned up in one without permission. My issue with my in-laws is one of respect, but the issue with the newspaper could be one of safety for the family and child. As far as I know, that's illegal (though I'm not exactly sure). I have a friend who is a journalist/photographer for our local paper, and he always has to get permission and full name of those he photographs if he intends to publish the image. Maybe this is just his paper's policy, I'm not sure.
that's rather hostile and rude to require your child's FAMILY to ask permission to take their picture. I imagine they were aghast and amazed that their daughter in law would not allow them to take pictures of their own grandchildren. I've never heard such a thing.
post #84 of 130
Some teachers feel very attached to their students. I'm sure it was an innocent act and wouldn't make a big deal of it at all unless had reason to believe otherwise.
post #85 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy2maya View Post
that's rather hostile and rude to require your child's FAMILY to ask permission to take their picture. I imagine they were aghast and amazed that their daughter in law would not allow them to take pictures of their own grandchildren. I've never heard such a thing.
Well, as rude and disrespectful as they are when taking pictures (do you think it's ok for family to hold your LO down and force a picture, even though they are scared and crying, just because they are "family"?), and because they disregarded my attempts to explain my position, the situation required a "hostile and rude" response. Just because they are family doesn't mean that they get to disrespect my wishes and do things that make me or my child uncomfortable.

To further explain, I don't expect them to ask permission for every snap. They usually just ask "hey, is it ok if we bring the camera out and get some shots of the kids playing?" Or, "can we all get together for a few group photos?" Where before they got in your face (literally), snapped pictures as you were coming in the door, taking your shoes off, eating, throwing something away, talking to others.....all. the. time. every. single. second. to the point of absolute ridiculousness. I don't mean snapping occasional candid shots, I mean just constant picture taking. Very, very rude. My response was not about the act of taking pictures, per se--it was about how invasive and disrespectful they were.

Oh, and I assure you, there are things that I do/have done that they have been far more "aghast and amazed" about.
post #86 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWillow View Post
it may be common to *take* pictures, but to use them for advertising purposes without written permission is most definitely not. and technically many schools DO require permission even for the taking of the photos. seriously, using your kids in an ad without asking you, normal? that's illegal.
Why do you think the photos would be used for advertising? As poster after poster has mentioned, it is very common for schools to use pictures for projects. I've gotten several of these projects sent home with DS, such as the mother's day one where he decorated a frame and they put a picture of him in it. They also hang photos of the kids in the room with their names underneath. One time they did want to use a photo of one of DS's classmates on their website, they asked his dads permission and sent a consent form home with him.

ETA: Consent forms are to avoid civil lawsuits, not criminal prosecution.
post #87 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post
Why do you think the photos would be used for advertising? As poster after poster has mentioned, it is very common for schools to use pictures for projects. I've gotten several of these projects sent home with DS, such as the mother's day one where he decorated a frame and they put a picture of him in it. They also hang photos of the kids in the room with their names underneath. One time they did want to use a photo of one of DS's classmates on their website, they asked his dads permission and sent a consent form home with him.

ETA: Consent forms are to avoid civil lawsuits, not criminal prosecution.
I think that, in the OP's case, the pictures were taken as part of some sort of camp. So there was a possibility of photos being used in brochures and/or other forms of advertisment.
post #88 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie View Post
Well, as rude and disrespectful as they are when taking pictures (do you think it's ok for family to hold your LO down and force a picture, even though they are scared and crying, just because they are "family"?),
But this isn't about the photos. If you ILs bought your DS a really cute t-shirt (that you loved, but that he didn't want to wear,) then held him down while stripping off his clothes and forced it on him, you would be just as upset with their behavior. However, you wouldn't think of the t-shirt as being the problem, you would just see it as a general disrespect for your child.
post #89 of 130
It's very normal to take pictures of group events. I work at a martial arts school and we take pictures of the kids in class and during graduations, as well as the two summer campouts we have. The parents sign a waiver of liability for injury but we've never had them sign a photo release...of course we've never had anyone be upset with the picture taking/displaying of pics on our bulletin board and on our website. I wouldn't be worried about it.
post #90 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post
But this isn't about the photos. If you ILs bought your DS a really cute t-shirt (that you loved, but that he didn't want to wear,) then held him down while stripping off his clothes and forced it on him, you would be just as upset with their behavior. However, you wouldn't think of the t-shirt as being the problem, you would just see it as a general disrespect for your child.
Yes. It is about general direspect for me with regard to my in-laws. I tried to express that in my post--that with them, it's not the photos, it's the act of taking the photos that bothers me. However, in general, I feel that photos are an invasion of privacy which can either be welcome or unwanted. As such, I feel that permission needs to be gained first. Just like I wouldn't let anyone touch me without having first gained permission (or at least recognition that it was wanted/accepted)--it's personal. I realize that I look at photos a bit different than the majority here, but that's just my opinion (and I think that I'm entitled to it, especially where my child is concerned)...

ETA: I'm not trying to argue that it's not normal for photos to be taken at schools/camps, etc. I think it is, and in general not a big deal--I just wanted to offer support to the OP. That her feelings on the matter shouldn't be dismissed as invalid. If she's truly uncomfortable with those photos being taken, she has every right to vocalize it. We all have differing levels of comfort on certain things, and I think that that is ok.
post #91 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie123 View Post
Normal or not, they can NOT take pics of your child with out your permission. I am aphotographer by trade, and it is illegal to take a photograph of a person under 18 (for ANY reason) without the written consent of the parent. You have every right to be bothered, so be sure to talk to them.

Except this is flat out wrong. In a public place, or a private place with owners permission, you can take a picture of who or whatever you want (with very few exceptions), including children. You can check out your rights as a photographer here: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Permission is only needed to sell/use for advertising pictures of people or children and sometimes property.

The press works differently. They DO NOT need your permission to publish a picture of you, the front of your house, your kid, or really anything. If a member of the press is at your kid's school to cover an event, your kid may just end up in the paper, and there is really nothing you can do about it except keep them home or away from the activities.

School policies are not laws. In most cases they are there to prevent lawsuits. They follow the opt out forms so strictly because they don't want to get sued if they post a picture of a kid in the school newsletter and abusive dad find outs where the family lives and causes harm.
post #92 of 130
It is normal around here. A lot of places we go we sign a waiver, even the YMCA says that if you don't want to be in pictures, you have to tell the photographer. (which seems like it could be a problematic way of doing it, because you don't always notice the photographer).

Personally, I take a LOT of pictures of my kids, and other kids are often in the pictures. I only blur the faces of other kids in more private settings when I don't know the parents.
post #93 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchie View Post
ETA: I'm not trying to argue that it's not normal for photos to be taken at schools/camps, etc. I think it is, and in general not a big deal--I just wanted to offer support to the OP. That her feelings on the matter shouldn't be dismissed as invalid. If she's truly uncomfortable with those photos being taken, she has every right to vocalize it. We all have differing levels of comfort on certain things, and I think that that is ok.
I agree. There's nothing wrong with not wanting pictures of her kid taken/used. We all have our issues that bother us and those that don't.

In these types of posts, even if the specific thing being done in the OP doesn't bother me, I try to think of a situation that would bother me and answer based on how I would handle that. So if a school taking pics of my kid was a non-issue for me, I'd try to think how I'd feel if the school did something else with my kid; something I do feel strongly about, the way the OP feels strongly about not having her kid's picture taken.

For example, some people might take issue with a school using time-outs when it wasn't listed anywhere in the enrollment paperwork that that was a form of discipline the school used. IMO, it isn't that useful to chime in just to say "that doesn't bother me."
post #94 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by deny_zoo29 View Post
It's very normal to take pictures of group events. I work at a martial arts school and we take pictures of the kids in class and during graduations, as well as the two summer campouts we have. The parents sign a waiver of liability for injury but we've never had them sign a photo release...of course we've never had anyone be upset with the picture taking/displaying of pics on our bulletin board and on our website. I wouldn't be worried about it.
Our martial arts instructor took pictures pretty regularly, they're used on the website and in brochures. I've never minded. Tournaments always have a photography waiver embedded in the registration form, no opt out. (With so many people at the event, it's impossible to guarantee that no parent anywhere will catch your child in a shot.)

I do not see pictures of my son as that big a deal. My sister posts the occasional picture openly on the web, though without names. I post them with privacy controls on.

A photograph of my sister & I appeared in the Diocese newspaper when we were young, we thought it was cool.

To me, the "control of one's image" comes across as... well,... expecting the child to be some kind of superstar. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. In my opinion, the best way to control one's own image is to pay attention to personal grooming / clothing style / situation.
post #95 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy2maya View Post
how is using a photo on a the front of a newspaper advertising?
This is the free local paper that is delivered to the doorstep of all 9000+ people in our town, including the ~100 sex offenders against children here. Her photo, FULL name, age, name of the center, the address of the center, and the dates/times of the workshop (she would be there another week) were all posted on the front page of the paper, along with a longish blurb promoting the center and that specific workshop. It's not a nonprofit place, and turned out to be the kind of place I would not recommend to others. They were hoping to get more signups.

Still not understanding the arguments here. So, because she is in public frequently, there's no point in taking measures to protect her? Nobody here has ever told their DC not to tell strangers their names (first, much less LAST) or where they go to school? Are you paranoid if you do? DD was 4 at the time and probably would have gone with anyone who showed up and told her mommy said it was ok, and sadly, I've seen children released on strangers' say-so's many times from classes or daycares. All they had to do was ASK me. I would certainly have wanted her last name off the front page!

Don't really see where all the outrage is coming from. I honstly don't care the tiniest bit what anyone else does with their kids' images. It matters to me, as do many things that might not be mainstream. Many things that are legal are categorically regarded as unacceptable on MDC; I am trying to respect my child's rights here. Many schools keep track of who does and doesn't mind, and they are being paid to respect those wishes. It's not that hard to ask someone if the local paper can put a kid and all their personal info on the front page.
post #96 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstar View Post
To me, the "control of one's image" comes across as... well,... expecting the child to be some kind of superstar. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. In my opinion, the best way to control one's own image is to pay attention to personal grooming / clothing style / situation.

no, not coming from that angle at all-- quite the opposite. I don't give a fig about whether she's appropriately groomed or a superstar. It's an ethical issue. Let's say some anti- (insert political issue dear to your heart here) group used your kid's image to promote their agenda and solicit donations. It's not that far from what happened in my case, but just in theory. I didn't mind photos being taken for stuff that stays in school and is just for class parents. But this bothered me. The center didn't turn out to be a good pace. They should have asked so I could ask DD; it's about respecting her privacy and safety as well. I definitely would have wanted her to have a say in the mass publication of her image and personal info.
post #97 of 130
I went back and read some of the responses. I guess I am "rude" because I take my camera everywhere and take a lot of pictures.

I routinely take huge amounts of photos of family gatherings and often playgroups, trips to parks/museums/swimming/around town, and of course, special events. Heck, I have been known to take 100 photos of the kids in a 3-5 minute time span in the back yard. lol. My son, in particular, is incredibly difficult to photograph, which is another reason I take so many.

People ask me for photos all the time. I am also very careful to not publish photos (on my private blog) of others that I would not want public myself....like if they have a goofy expression, or I caught them half blinking, or their hair is doing something really goofy and doesn't fit in the picture (we live in Kansas, so there is constant wind, so hair straight up in a "nice" picture can be an issue).

I have always loved photos, but discovered that it was a huge help for my son and language development to have the pictures. That changed my picture style from "special event only" to "daily life" because it allowed us to work on sequencing and gave him the visual support to "tell me what you did today". It changed how I took pictures, and now I am in the habit of doing it.

I can't even fathom being upset at a family member for taking photos of my kids. I just can't. They are family. And it wouldn't even occur to me to ask "permission" to take photos of my own grandkids. That just seems over the top to me.
post #98 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Z View Post
I went back and read some of the responses. I guess I am "rude" because I take my camera everywhere and take a lot of pictures.

I routinely take huge amounts of photos of family gatherings and often playgroups, trips to parks/museums/swimming/around town, and of course, special events. Heck, I have been known to take 100 photos of the kids in a 3-5 minute time span in the back yard. lol. My son, in particular, is incredibly difficult to photograph, which is another reason I take so many.

People ask me for photos all the time. I am also very careful to not publish photos (on my private blog) of others that I would not want public myself....like if they have a goofy expression, or I caught them half blinking, or their hair is doing something really goofy and doesn't fit in the picture (we live in Kansas, so there is constant wind, so hair straight up in a "nice" picture can be an issue).

I have always loved photos, but discovered that it was a huge help for my son and language development to have the pictures. That changed my picture style from "special event only" to "daily life" because it allowed us to work on sequencing and gave him the visual support to "tell me what you did today". It changed how I took pictures, and now I am in the habit of doing it.

I can't even fathom being upset at a family member for taking photos of my kids. I just can't. They are family. And it wouldn't even occur to me to ask "permission" to take photos of my own grandkids. That just seems over the top to me.
It sounds like it's not a problem for you or your family the way it is with the other poster who mentioned it.

Honestly, why is it so difficult for people to put themselves in others' shoes? Just because things are peachy with your family you can't understand why other people might have a problem with theirs, or why the picture-taking might be part of a larger pattern of invasiveness?
post #99 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by fork View Post
Except this is flat out wrong. In a public place, or a private place with owners permission, you can take a picture of who or whatever you want (with very few exceptions), including children. You can check out your rights as a photographer here: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Permission is only needed to sell/use for advertising pictures of people or children and sometimes property.

The press works differently. They DO NOT need your permission to publish a picture of you, the front of your house, your kid, or really anything. If a member of the press is at your kid's school to cover an event, your kid may just end up in the paper, and there is really nothing you can do about it except keep them home or away from the activities.

School policies are not laws. In most cases they are there to prevent lawsuits. They follow the opt out forms so strictly because they don't want to get sued if they post a picture of a kid in the school newsletter and abusive dad find outs where the family lives and causes harm.
I think this correct. Think about it, how many pictures of celebrity kids are taken by the paparazzi on a daily basis? Go to any celeb gossip site and there are tons of pictures of Madonna, Britney, Angelina, ect out walking around with their kids. Most of them don't want their kids photographed and ask that the paparazzi stop but nothing can really be done about it because they are out in a public place.

If it weren't for newspaper clippings my MIL would not have half the scrapbook she has now for her sons. My husband was photographed for tons of events as a child, she said she would open the paper and get excited if he was in it. No one ever asked her, she didn't care. It just depends on the parent.

I would simply ask what the photographs are being used for and if you're not comfortable with it, tell them. Simple as that.
post #100 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Z View Post
I went back and read some of the responses. I guess I am "rude" because I take my camera everywhere and take a lot of pictures.

I routinely take huge amounts of photos of family gatherings and often playgroups, trips to parks/museums/swimming/around town, and of course, special events. Heck, I have been known to take 100 photos of the kids in a 3-5 minute time span in the back yard. lol. My son, in particular, is incredibly difficult to photograph, which is another reason I take so many.

People ask me for photos all the time. I am also very careful to not publish photos (on my private blog) of others that I would not want public myself....like if they have a goofy expression, or I caught them half blinking, or their hair is doing something really goofy and doesn't fit in the picture (we live in Kansas, so there is constant wind, so hair straight up in a "nice" picture can be an issue).

I have always loved photos, but discovered that it was a huge help for my son and language development to have the pictures. That changed my picture style from "special event only" to "daily life" because it allowed us to work on sequencing and gave him the visual support to "tell me what you did today". It changed how I took pictures, and now I am in the habit of doing it.

I can't even fathom being upset at a family member for taking photos of my kids. I just can't. They are family. And it wouldn't even occur to me to ask "permission" to take photos of my own grandkids. That just seems over the top to me.
I'm the poster that was upset at family members over taking too many photos. No, I don't think that you are rude for taking tons of photos--my issue with my family members was not that they were taking photos (I said in my first post that I love photos--we take a lot ourselves, and I do want my family members to have those memories in photos, too), it was that they disrespected my feelings on the matter when they became overbearing with the picture-taking. I do feel that photos are personal, but that's just my opinion. I don't mean at all to offend anyone who feels otherwise--just expressing why I had a hard time with the paparazzi-ish actions of my family. So please don't think that I am trying to say that is rude or not right to take lots of photos--that's not what I am getting at all.

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