vaccine in daycare - Page 2

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Yes, definitely.

The CDC outlines the risk of complications for the diseases as well as getting the vaccines. Naturally, these vary depending on who gets the vaccines (it's not worth it if only one person gets vaccinated) but if the majority of people do, it saves lives.

I understand that some people would argue that the CDC is not acknowledging the risk of the unknown, i.e. that in theory, for example, vaccines could cause people's heads to implode and their feet to turn purple.

However, that risk is there for getting chicken pox as well, so I maintain that if we look at what has been scientifically proven, the risks are fewer if we vaccinate.



See, for me this is a major negative. I'd love to spend my vacation with my children. But I'd want to spend it with them being happy, doing new and exciting things, not having them weeping on the couch because of sores. We had H1N1 and were sick for two weeks. My daughter missed the Fourth of July parade and fireworks. It sucked for her, it sucked for us, she got a secondary ear infection and we were terrified that her baby sister would get it.

Would I have taken the shot, and, say, a 1/500k risk or whatever at allergic reaction, and saved those two weeks? Especially since antibiotics, ibuprofen, tylenol, and fevers over 105 are not without their own risks.

Absolutely.

I don't think the rare anaphylactic reaction that you refer to is why most people choose to forgo a certain vaccine. It's a much more complex issue than an allergic reaction.

[mama1803]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Yes, definitely.

The CDC outlines the risk of complications for the diseases as well as getting the vaccines. Naturally, these vary depending on who gets the vaccines (it's not worth it if only one person gets vaccinated) but if the majority of people do, it saves lives.

I understand that some people would argue that the CDC is not acknowledging the risk of the unknown, i.e. that in theory, for example, vaccines could cause people's heads to implode and their feet to turn purple.

However, that risk is there for getting chicken pox as well, so I maintain that if we look at what has been scientifically proven, the risks are fewer if we vaccinate.



See, for me this is a major negative. I'd love to spend my vacation with my children. But I'd want to spend it with them being happy, doing new and exciting things, not having them weeping on the couch because of sores. We had H1N1 and were sick for two weeks. My daughter missed the Fourth of July parade and fireworks. It sucked for her, it sucked for us, she got a secondary ear infection and we were terrified that her baby sister would get it.

Would I have taken the shot, and, say, a 1/500k risk or whatever at allergic reaction, and saved those two weeks? Especially since antibiotics, ibuprofen, tylenol, and fevers over 105 are not without their own risks.

Absolutely.

I'd also like to point out that a great many people who choose not to vaccinate aren't terrified of illness (or of their head imploding or their feet turning purple). I'm not terrified of the flu virus or ear infections or fever because I've done a great deal of reading and research and know how to treat both. In fact, I have treated both. Believe it or not, there are alternatives to antibiotics and tylenol, which as you rightly pointed out, do have risks of their own.

What I am afraid of are the real risks of vaccinating, both the known and unknown, and the fact that the medical community purposely downplays both or simply refuses to acknowledge them. Even more scary is that most doctors, who spend years in medical school, can't recognize or treat a disease like the measles because they rely so heavily on the effectiveness of the vaccine.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by mama1803

I'd also like to point out that a great many people who choose not to vaccinate aren't terrified of illness (or of their head imploding or their feet turning purple). I'm not terrified of the flu virus or ear infections or fever because I've done a great deal of reading and research and know how to treat both. In fact, I have treated both. Believe it or not, there are alternatives to antibiotics and tylenol, which as you rightly pointed out, do have risks of their own.

What I am afraid of are the real risks of vaccinating, both the known and unknown, and the fact that the medical community purposely downplays both or simply refuses to acknowledge them. Even more scary is that most doctors, who spend years in medical school, can't recognize or treat a disease like the measles because they rely so heavily on the effectiveness of the vaccine.

I know that people who don't vaccinate aren't afraid of illness. I am. Not morbidly so, but I have a healthy fear of death and illness that comes from seeing people permanently injured by illness. Being sick is more than an inconvenience- in babies it seriously raises their risk for death or permanent injury.

Few now would recognize smallpox, because it's nearly eradicated, and to that I say, thank God. I'm SO GLAD that in this country, we no longer recognize the hallmarks of polio, typhoid, cholera, measles, smallpox, or leprosy, all nearly eradicated, some by vaccines, some by other means. I don't think it's scary that an entire generation in our country is free from polio and therefore, does not recognize it. I think it's freaking awesome! :

And as to alternatives to antibiotics- it depends on the seriousness of the infection. Antibiotics have lowered mortality by leaps and bounds over the past 100 years. They are overused and there are alternatives early on but there is a point where you are pretty much at antibiotics-or-miracle.

[mauri456]

personally, i did most of the vaccines for my daughter. (she goes to daycare too) it was before i really knew any better. i will likely do it differently for my next children. my first pedi i went to gave me grief for not wanting to do a bunch at one visit. i switched not too long after that. my new pedi actually recommends spacing them out some or delaying.

i am not extremely well versed in all the vax but the ones that stand out to me would be prevnar and hib.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Few now would recognize smallpox, because it's nearly eradicated, and to that I say, thank God. I'm SO GLAD that in this country, we no longer recognize the hallmarks of polio, typhoid, cholera, measles, smallpox, or leprosy, all nearly eradicated, some by vaccines, some by other means.

Smallpox IS eradicated. Largely due to quarantine.

Out of your list, typhoid was never vaccinated for routinely in the US, nor was cholera, ditto leprosy, already spoke to smallpox.

-Angela

[EdnaMarie]

Well, we think it's eradicated, but there are still viri preserved for science's sake. And it was eradicated (if it was totally) due to vaccination with some quarantine.

And the other ones- yeah, those are "other means," that I mentioned in my post. There is no cholera or leprosy vaccine that I know of. Typhoid is almost exclusively a traveler's vaccine.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Well, we think it's eradicated, but there are still viri preserved for science's sake. And it was eradicated (if it was totally) due to vaccination with some quarantine.

And the other ones- yeah, those are "other means," that I mentioned in my post. There is no cholera or leprosy vaccine that I know of. Typhoid is almost exclusively a traveler's vaccine.

I know that people who don't vaccinate aren't afraid of illness

Not true...We don't vaccinate but I do have a healthy fear of disease and death. Based on my research I happen to have a greater fear of vaccine damage.

As for small pox being eradicated via the vaccine, this is simply not true. In Prussia they passed a mandatory vaccination law in 1834. After 35 years of almost 100% of the population vaccinated, they experienced the worst epidemic in it's history killing almost 125,000 people. Laws tried to make the SP vaccine compulsory in England in 1853. Before that time, the highest number of deaths in a 2 year period in England from smallpox was about 2000. The statistics are as follows: 1857-1869 14,244 deaths; 1863-1865 20,059 deaths. In 1867 Britian passed another law that allowed for people to be vaccinated against their will ( held down by force if need be). This resulted in a vax rate of over 97%. The following year in 1868 they experienced their worse epidemic ever with almost 45,000 deaths. England abandoned the SP vaccine in 1902. Other countries followed suit because they knew the vaccine made things worse. Holland stopped in 1928 and Australia in 1925. The US duh..took us until 1971 to stop even though there was only a tiny number of cases reported in the US from 1950-1970 ALL AMONG VACCINATED PEOPLE. Even though smallpox vaccination became mandatory in the US after 1902, by 1929 all states but nine no longer made it compulsory. Reason: too many deaths and complications
Lets look at the Phillipines. In 1905 the mortality rate for SP was 10%. (before US control) After WWI There was a huge push to vaccinate everyone and the U.S. mandated a mass smallpox vaccination program in the Philippines in 1917, some 25 million shots were given. 163,000 Filipinos came down with the disease after the vaccination, and 75,339 Filipinos died from it, the mortaility rate was 65%. SP went away on it's own with the help of quarantine much like many other diseases died out without a vaccine.

[EdnaMarie]

Sources?

75 thousand Filipinos died in 1917 just from smallpox vaccination?

The Soviet Union, that bastion of private-enterprise, HMOs, and basically all-things profit-oriented... or not kept the vaccine on well into the 70s.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Sources?

75 thousand Filipinos died in 1917 just from smallpox vaccination?

The Soviet Union, that bastion of private-enterprise, HMOs, and basically all-things profit-oriented... or not kept the vaccine on well into the 70s.

Can't give you the sources right now, Im at work and my sources are at home...im spitting out info from memory. I did a paper on smallpox vaccine for school a while back.

[EdnaMarie]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...639C946196D6CF

If you have to pay, PM me & I'll e-mail you the article.

[MyBoysBlue]

That was an article from an old newspaper none of the data presented was sited and the last line of the article says that they need more reliable statistics. I am curious about your sourses Marnica but I think we are straying away from topic.

If I had to put my DS in daycare it would not change the way I feel about vax. Besides he has already had one VPD CP and he handled it wonderfully.

[tanyalynn]

OP, I have found there is a whole lot I can do to support my kids (esp my son, who gets sick a lot more than the typical kid) through illness, so that complications don't develop. And whether you vaccinate or not, most people find their kids get sick more often at daycare than at home (I didn't have that experience, but apparently most people do) and mostly it's not vaccinateable diseases. So filling a toolbox with ideas of what to do when your kid's sick, BEFORE they get sick, helps at a very practical level. The toolbox can help with all the diseases out there, regardless of whether there's a vaccine. Health & Healing is a good place to start getting ideas.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...639C946196D6CF

If you have to pay, PM me & I'll e-mail you the article.

This article from the NYT (mouthpiece for mainstream medical community today, probably was back then as well) is from early 1900's. the report about the Philippines is from 1907. Smallpox was around, it did kill people. Never said it didn't. What I discovered was that the vaccine campaigns did nothing but actually make things worse. Smallpox was and is not as highly contagious as people think it is in it's natural state.

"The infection is spread by droplet contamination. Coughing and sneezing are not generally part of the infection. Smallpox will not spread like wildfire." Walter A. Orenstein, M.D., Director of the CDC's National Immunization Program (NIP), CDC meeting June 20, 2002

"Transmission of smallpox occurs only after intense personal contact, defined by the CDC as constant exposure, occurring within 6-7 feet, for a minimum of 6-7 days." Am. J. Epid. 1971; 91:316-326.

In an article, Vaccination In Italy’ which appeared In the New York Medical Journal, July 1899, Chas Rauta, Professor of Hygiene and Material Medical in the University of Perguia, Italy, points out:

“taly is one of the best vaccinated countries in the world, if not the best of all, for twenty years before 1885, our nation was vaccinated in the proportion of 98.5%. Notwithstanding, the epidemics of smallpox that we have had have been something so frightful that nothing before the invention of vaccination could equal them. During 1887, we had 16,249 deaths from smallpox; in 1888- 18,110 and 1889 – 131,413.

If you look at the report of the Phillipines Health Services from 1920 AFTER mass vaccination occurred, this is when MORE people fell ill and died.

Hundreds of Thousands of people were vaccinated yearly with the most unfortunate result that the 1918 epidemic looks prima facie as a flagrant failure of the classic immunization towards future epidemics

I remember when I did my paper for college on smallpox I was surprised to learn that vaccination did not eradicate smallpox as we are taught that it did. This realization did not change my opinion on vaccination in general surprisingly. I was 100% provax until an aquantainces perfectly healthy baby expired 4 days after her 1st DTaP vaccine. This made me want to research. I had never put the connection together with the smallpx info until yaers later.
To each his own. If one wants to believe smallpox was eradicated via vaccination more power to them. It is not my job nor do I wish to convince people otherwise. Im just putting information that I have learned out there. People can be doubtful about it or it may spur them to investigate for themselves. I have no desire to debate the issue.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue

That was an article from an old newspaper none of the data presented was sited and the last line of the article says that they need more reliable statistics. I am curious about your sourses Marnica but I think we are straying away from topic.
If I had to put my DS in daycare it would not change the way I feel about vax. Besides he has already had one VPD CP and he handled it wonderfully.

agreed ...see above. Lets get back on point shall we? I always digress!! I have to stop that!

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

The day-care will most likely have requiremennts and recommendations. I would ask them- they can tell you what is / has been going around. My kids and all their cousins were on schedule and we've not had so much as a fever. I think they are all worth the risk.

they are worth the risk?? vaccine induced encephalitis, autism, autoimmune disease... the list goes on..
after the countless hours i've spent researching the issue vaccines are not worth risking potential life long injury and death... i live in an area with the highest autism rate in the country.. and everywhere i look.. it's horrible what is happening... i see them at my doctors office, autism comes in many forms but it's alarming to see so many... besides the neurological issues the health of this countrys' children is bad. autoimmune disease and neurological issues directly correlate with the increase in vaccines.. but for some it may be easier just to pretend it doesn't exsist... or to believe doctors whose practice depends on the vaccine program

[medusaatemydog]

why are there still so many people in denial... it's such an obvious event that is occuring... even still considering current political motives which are so obviously profit motivated

[Dmitrizmom]

both of my kids went to daycare. neither are vaxed. sure we dealt with colds, but fewer than the other kids there that had their shots.

[Marnica]

never mind

[amnesiac]

Once again I have addressed violations of our UA in this thread which continues to stray far off topic. Since this discussion seems to have reached the end of its productive course I am closing the thread.