or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › To Train Up a Child?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

To Train Up a Child? - Page 2

post #21 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by lness View Post
Wow, I'm scared - I thought this kind of thing went out of style a LONG time ago! Is "obedience" really the best we can hope for from our kids? I guess these people's kids will be in trouble the first time someone they look up to tells them to do something bad...something they wouldn't have done if they hadn't learned unquestioning obedience as the way to get through life.

I'm afraid as soon as I hit "Post" someone's going to hit me with a switch!
There are no switches here on Mothering
post #22 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmomma View Post
I've often told people I'm not teaching my children to obey. I'm teaching them to think and do the right thing.

ITA! This is a very short and to the point way to get across what I believe is my main parenting goal. Can I steal this?
post #23 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixMommaToTwo View Post
I was given this book by someone and it's HORRIBLE. They absolutely advocate not just spanking, but bare butt spanking with a switch, spoon or other object. Their advice for night waking was to simply switch them on the legs every time they get out of their bed without saying a word to them and lead them back to bed. I know people who follow this philosophy and needless to say, we don't see them anymore. They use paint sticks (the stirrer things) to spank their children and started doing it as young as 18 months. I also read her book on how to be a "good" wife. Yeah, it's just what you'd expect. Keep your mouth shut, be a good little wifey and let the man do whatever he wants (including visiting hookers) and just suck it up because ulitimately it's your fault. Ugh! These people need to be shot, seriously. I would suggest giving it back with maybe some ap like literature.

As for finding time for yourself, I struggle with it myself, but lately I've been leaving the kiddos with dh and I take the dog for a walk. It gives me a little time to unwind. We're like you, we unschool and we really don't have a schedule at all. We follow our kids cues. I hope you find something that works for you!
I was also given this book. My ILs are fundamentalists and they absolutely live by the Pearls' advice. I read it, and it made me sick. My BIL and SIL have a special 'spanky stick' that they use on our niece and nephew.
post #24 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraS View Post
You know what irritates me too, about books and advice like this, is they always bring out the Bible.

I'm a Christian. I'm not a "bible-beating, go to church 6 days a week" Christian, but I know I'm saved and heading up when I die... and I also know that my God doesn't want me hurting my children. I hate that fanatics constantly want to say that a good Christian home would involve beating kids every day. That's so not true. Period. Gimme any quote you want, but people forget that the Bible was written by men, interpreted over and over and over again thru thousands of years, and can still be interpreted many different ways (just like I don't believe being homosexual is a sin - MY God wouldn't deny access to heaven to two men who were good people, were saved and loved Him, and never harmed a fly, but allow a mass murderer who "found Him" on his injection death bed right in, KWIM?).

Anyways, no, people who swear God makes them hit their kids need a pass right to the looney bin.
I totally agree with you in regard to people cherry-picking Biblical quotes and using them without regard for the Bible as a message of mercy and forgiveness. I think this is abhorrent, especially when used to justify violence against children. However, as a conservative, Bible-believing Christian, I must take issue with the bolded part of your statement, since isn't that what grace is all about--getting something that we don't deserve? Hence, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I would hope that God would be as open to the repentent murderer as He would to the person who led the church choir (if you remember from the stories of Moses and David, both were murderers!). Seeing as how Jesus (God incarnate) hung out with repentent adulterers, thieves, and murderers himself--I think that's as close an answer to how God feels toward these people as any. The key is repentence. Without realizing that we have turned away from God, we cannot be drawn closer to God. Just a thought.

And to the OP, this is a terrible book! Run, run, run!
post #25 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmomma View Post
I've often told people I'm not teaching my children to obey. I'm teaching them to think and do the right thing.

could you talk a bit more about this? I'm really interested , it's so strong in society that children must do as they told and if they do not obey they are naughty. I would like to explore other options other than making my children 'obey'. I often say to my children when I am very tired and exhausted 'you're just not doing as you are told/asked' and feel bad afterwards.
post #26 of 100
I'm shocked, and surprised this is even legal. In Canada, although spanking is permitted on kids age 2 to 12, it is illegal to use any sort of object (like a switch) on your kids.
post #27 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua View Post
However, as a conservative, Bible-believing Christian, I must take issue with the bolded part of your statement, since isn't that what grace is all about--getting something that we don't deserve? Hence, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I would hope that God would be as open to the repentent murderer as He would to the person who led the church choir (if you remember from the stories of Moses and David, both were murderers!). Seeing as how Jesus (God incarnate) hung out with repentent adulterers, thieves, and murderers himself--I think that's as close an answer to how God feels toward these people as any. The key is repentence. Without realizing that we have turned away from God, we cannot be drawn closer to God. Just a thought.
Great post - to touch briefly (because I don't want to get away from the OP's intent), the reason I believe this was because of a theology professor I heard give a speech. He believed, interpreted, the Bible a little differently than some do. He thinks the "man laying with man" part that everyone quotes to prove that being homosexual is a sin, is actually referring to man laying with child - pedophiles. He gave about an hour long discussion that backed up what he said, and I really liked it. I always disliked thinking that a person who was a homosexual was such a bad person in the eyes of the Bible - and I prefer to think that this theology professor (a minister too - do they have to be ministers too, I wonder? Eh, I digress) was onto something....

Okay, carry on!
post #28 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggie View Post
I'm shocked, and surprised this is even legal. In Canada, although spanking is permitted on kids age 2 to 12, it is illegal to use any sort of object (like a switch) on your kids.
I wish that were the case here - at least it's a start. I would like to see it ALL made illegal. I think right now the law states "if you don't leave a mark"? That's sick, IMO.
post #29 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggie View Post
I'm shocked, and surprised this is even legal. In Canada, although spanking is permitted on kids age 2 to 12, it is illegal to use any sort of object (like a switch) on your kids.
I really wish it were illegal here as well.
post #30 of 100
i couldn't even read all the excerpts--I am sick!! find another book if you're so inclined to have some kind of schedule.
post #31 of 100
The Pearls freak me out and make me sick. I hate that they use God and the Bible to back themselves up. Does God send down a bolt of lightening and strike us down every time we mess up? No, He gives us a chance to repent and try again.
post #32 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaUK View Post
could you talk a bit more about this? I'm really interested , it's so strong in society that children must do as they told and if they do not obey they are naughty. I would like to explore other options other than making my children 'obey'. I often say to my children when I am very tired and exhausted 'you're just not doing as you are told/asked' and feel bad afterwards.
I'm not the person you were responding to, but I have a similar view of things, so I'm going to throw in my two bits.

I do want my kids to do what they're told, because life is very frustrating when they won't. However, I don't see a refusal to "obey" as some kind of character flaw, and it certainly doesn't make them naughty. My desire to have them do what I tell them to is my issue, not theirs. I've seen so many kids get into trouble because they do what they're told, when what they're told is a really bad idea. (An extreme case that comes to mind is a girl I know who did something a pedophile told her to, got "caught", and was punished for being a "filthy little girl"...by someone who constantly harped on the importance of "obeying".) Obedience isn't really a virtue, imo. (There are certainly times and places where it's necessary, but I don't think it's a great basis to live a whole life on.)

What I try to emphasize with my children is cooperation, not obedience. Instead of framing things as, "you're not obeying, because you're a naughty brat", I try to frame them as, "we can have more fun/get more done, if people cooperate". Picking up toys, for example, isn't about doing what they're told - it's about pitching in to make life easier for everyone. DH and I both point out that if we're spending all our time doing things for them and/or cleaning up after them, we don't have time to do other things, but that if they do their share, everyone has more time for fun. Getting dressed when I ask/tell them to isn't about doing what I tell them - it's about getting somewhere they want/need to be on time.

It's taking a while to sink in, but I'm much more comfortable with this approach. Sure - there are times I kind of wish they'd just snap to and do what I say...but that's about wanting my life to be easier, not about wanting what's best for them.
post #33 of 100
I could list disturbing quotes all day. Here's a gem about making sure that your girls wear only long dresses, rather than shorts, like a "slut".

http://www.nogreaterjoy. org/nc/articles/general-view/archive/2006/june/21/sobering-issues-modesty/?tx_ttnews[backPid]=48

Quote:
My daughters won’t dress like a strange woman either. Mine, at only 9 years old, knows that she should keep her body from a man’s eyes, reserving it for her future husband. In the grocery store one day, when my daughter was wearing a skirt that flowed around her ankles, she heard another little girl (dressed in shorts) point to my daughter and comment to her own mother, “Look, Mom, she’s beautiful!” Why not dress beautifully rather than like a slut? You should get out of your ignorance before your dinner guest looks at you or your daughter then visits the bathroom. Well, that’s probably already happened.
Isn't that sick? Who would even think that your dinner guests would do that because your daughter is wearing shorts? He's one messed up dude.

ETA: He also claims to be sinless:
http://allthings2all.blogspot.com/20...er-joy_30.html
post #34 of 100
I'm reading this like it's coming from some medieval novel about prisoners and slaves and things like that... really, I can't believe this book a: gets published - that any reasonable human being reading it isn't sick to their stomach and b: has been published in the past 50 years.

It's like Dean Koontz wrote this crap in a make believe world.
post #35 of 100
Run, far, far away from that book.
post #36 of 100
This book was given to me as a new mother.

It made the first two years of DS1's life pretty awful, not because I followed it to a T, but because I had the seed planted in my mind that if my child doesn't obey, I'm a bad mother.

I guess, about obeying, I see it as a GIFT a person gives you, not a right you demand. Funny that the Pearl's emphasize the Bible says for wives to willingly "submit yourself to your husband", NOT "Husbands force your wife to submit to you". Yet, a few verses later, when it says "Children obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right", the Pearls interpret it as "Force your child to obey you."

?????

I understand why some people do not advocate "obedience" and turn to words like cooperation. I'm ok with the word obey as long as it's something my children have chosen to offer me, not something I'm trying to minipulate/coerce/bribe out of them.
post #37 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraS View Post
You know what irritates me too, about books and advice like this, is they always bring out the Bible.

I'm a Christian. I'm not a "bible-beating, go to church 6 days a week" Christian, but I know I'm saved and heading up when I die... and I also know that my God doesn't want me hurting my children. I hate that fanatics constantly want to say that a good Christian home would involve beating kids every day. That's so not true. Period. Gimme any quote you want, but people forget that the Bible was written by men, interpreted over and over and over again thru thousands of years, and can still be interpreted many different ways (just like I don't believe being homosexual is a sin - MY God wouldn't deny access to heaven to two men who were good people, were saved and loved Him, and never harmed a fly, but allow a mass murderer who "found Him" on his injection death bed right in, KWIM?).

Anyways, no, people who swear God makes them hit their kids need a pass right to the looney bin.
And now you wonder why people cannot stand anything having to do with the Bible. this is because so many people, like the Pears and Ezzos, do many horrible things in the name of God.

These people--the Ezzos and the Pearls--really and truly twist Scripture. Here is an example of one of their teachings that is contrary to what the Bible teaches:

In the "Prepared Parenting Manual" written by Gary Ezzo as part of the Growing Families International curriculum, these are Gary Ezzo's exact words. He states, “Our heavenly Father’s non-intervention to
His Son’s cry at that moment was the right response. . . it is used to demonstrate that God does
not always respond to cry-cues immediately and without thought.” (Page 142, Prepared Parenting Manual.) What he was talking about here is the crusifixion of Jesus and how God did not respond right away to his cries. This is his rationalization for ignoring a baby's cries.

But what he fails to realize is this:

1. Jesus Christ was a man, not a baby. Because he was grown, he possessed the coping mechanisms to deal with his situation, and a young baby would not have these skills mastered yet. Hence, it is very improper to compare a grown man to an infant, though, they both are human beings and should be treated as such. In the words of Dr. Seuss, "A person's a person no matter how small."

2. There are numerous Scriptures in the Bible that show the importance of comforting an infant, or even an older child, and these Scriptures show that God is always there and would not condone treating a small and helpless infant in such an indignifying manner. They state:

“As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you.” Isaiah 66:13 NIV
“Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!” Isaiah 49:15 KJV (this Scripture shows how a mother, through whatever means, whether it is a parenting book, an expert, or some other source, can in deed lack compassion on her helpless infant to the point where it becomes very easy to ignore his cries without a second thought. And we see this all the time.)
“The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all.” Psalm 34:17-19 NIV (This is so different than what both the Ezzos and the Pearls teach.)

These people really have it all wrong.

The belief system of the Ezzos and the Pearls is clearly fanatical and extreme to say the least.

That is my two cents worth.
post #38 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraS View Post
I wish that were the case here - at least it's a start. I would like to see it ALL made illegal. I think right now the law states "if you don't leave a mark"? That's sick, IMO.
One of my aunts used to brag about how great it was that she could hit her kids as hard as she wanted as long as she used a fly swatter - because it doesn't leave a mark.

I too sometimes wish my kiddos would just do what I asked NOW, but I much rather prefer to teach them cooperation and the ability to think for themselves. Aside from everything else that's wrong with these people and their ideas, the thought that blind obedience could lead kids into very dangerous situations is so frightening (child molesters, drugs/alcohol, etc.). But hey, if it means never having your kids ask for junk food at the grocery store, it must be worth it!

To the OP: I think you've gotten some good ideas for ways to find time for yourself. I've been getting up early to walk for 30 min before DH goes to work in the morning. I also go out for dinner with my 3 best friends once a month while DH watches the kids. Sometimes, knowing that I have a dinner coming up is all that gets me through the day. And, there are plenty of other resources that are not as evil as the Pearls. Run far away!
post #39 of 100
Sick. Controlling other humans through brainwashing. If a parent wants a puppet, s/he should go buy one from the toy store.

Oh, and it's method run against the real brain development of a child. And it's abusive.
post #40 of 100
I saw the name of this thread and screamed (in my head because the kids are sleeping!)

I think the OP should at least scan the book and become familiar with it, just so you can make an informed decision and discuss it with other moms in the future.

This book is so horrible. I would treat an animal this way, let alone a child.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › To Train Up a Child?