Need help with doggy situation

[remijo]

So here's the story. We have three dogs. Our St Bernard is almost eight and getting on in years, I don't imagine he will be alive much longer. The vets say big dogs like that don't live very long. We also adopted two younger boxers last march. The male is three and the female is two. Neither boxer was neutered or spayed when we got them. The male boxer attacked the St. Bernard once or twice and both got pretty tore up. So we neutered the male boxer and have since kept the dogs pretty much separated. Well we had to move and keeping them separated is not as easy anymore. The dogs got together again by accident two days ago and got in a fight again. It seems this time that the boxer is now cowering and will not initiate a fight but we believe that the St. Bernard is remembering that he was aggressive and is going after the boxer. And...the boxer will not back down once engaged. I told DH the only suggestion is to find a new home for the boxers but he is so very attached and really doesn't want to give up the dogs when our St. Bernard might not live that longer (and we've had the St Bernard since he was a babe, there's no way we would give him up). (By the way, the boxers are fabulous dogs, there is no issue with them at all besides the aggression between the two males.) Keeping them separated is an option but we will be moving again and it is just a hassle, especially with a baby on the way. We also don't know of anyone that will keep any of the dogs for awhile. Does anybody have any suggestions? (Does this rambling monologue make any sense at all?)

[Nicole915]

Is the St. Bernard neutered? Does the St. Bernard have sensory issues (blindness, deafness)? Are the dogs ever able to be together without aggression?

While most large breed dogs do in fact have a shorter life span than small dogs, just keep in mind that you might have the statistical outlier... I saw a 12 year old a month or so ago, who was in great shape.

The best place to start is usually a call to your DVM to see if they have an animal trainer in the area who they might recommend. This person will come to your home and give you an idea of the dynamics. She might be able to determine what sort of aggression is going on, as there are different reasons dogs fight. In the mean time, what you're doing is best, keeping them separate. Make sure they don't feel that they have to compete for things like food and toys.

(*Disclaimer, I'm not your vet, and this isn't medical advice*)

[greenmagick]

I would definitey get a trainer behaviourist in there to see what is going on....but seperation may have to be the answer (there are many things you can try to do though with professional help).

What where the fights over, how did they start?

And yes, 8 is not that old for a giant breed. I think 10-12 is the average but I had st that used to come in for grooming who was 16 and my moms dane lived til 15. Dont count on him dying soon as a solution.

[Sailor]

I would just advise that you either work a lot harder at keeping them separated or you get a good trainer or behavioralist to come in and see if he/she can diffuse the situation between the dogs.

If the trainer can't - keep them separate. I know it's a pain and a hassle, but dogs are a life commitment. Non-returnable except in dire/emergency situations. I don't think this situation is really enough of an emergency to merit rehoming. Rescues/shelters are already overflowing, unfortunately.

Once you finish moving, it won't be that hard to keep them separate. During moving - do you have crates? Crate the boxers when you can't keep an eye on them. Is there a yard? Put the boxers in the yard, keep the St. Bernard in the house. Switch as needed.

A good trainer/behaviorist may very well be able to solve this problem - I'd definitely go down that route. Some dogs are dog aggressive and it's hard to ever get them to get along with others ... but, your situation is different in that the boxers don't fight one another, and since being neutered the boxer no longer instigates the fight. So, I think there is hope here if you get a good behaviorist.

[Kirsten]

I think this is why my dp absolutely will NOT agree to any pets that are male.

Given that you already have two males, I'd just get large dog crates as others have suggested. Male boxer in the crate when Bernard is inside, and out of crate when he is outside. Or however you can keep them apart.

I also wouldn't assume the Bernard has not much longer. He could live for two to four more years. Thinking he'll not be around much longer isn't the solution.

Keeping them apart - regardless of how easy/hard it is - is best. If you just can't, and they continue to fight in a way that causes serious injury to either dog, you have to rehome the male boxer IMO.

[Ola_]

What a tough decision! Is rehoming just the male boxer a possibility? It sounds like he was the cause of the problem and I would personally be concerned with having a dog with aggression issues in general (I would worry about having him around other dogs on walks, in the park, etc.).

I think getting a *good* trainer asap is key. You need super obedience from both dogs so you can manage the situation. Otherwise I'm sorry to say that it's just an accident waiting to happen, esp. with the craziness of moving and a new baby throwing your routine off.

Originally Posted by Kirsten

I think this is why my dp absolutely will NOT agree to any pets that are male.

Do keep in mind that most dog aggression occurs between *un-neutered* males, and the next likely after that between two females. I think the best bet when you have two dogs is to get one of each gender, it seems to have the best odds of working out.

[angie7]

I think this is why my dp absolutely will NOT agree to any pets that are male.

Why? Most fights are between females vs males anyways. I've never had a problem with same sex dogs. I currently have 4 females and at one time I had 3 males and 4 females, all housed together and happy. I have also had several rescues in and out as well with no problem. I don't feel I'm lucky, I think it has to do with training, socialization, desentizing, etc.

to the OP: I would find a behaviorist not a trainer and keep them seperate.

[Sailor]

The male/male thing isn't really 100% accurate. Un-neutered males, yes. But, as the pp said - right after un-neutered males, the most likely fight to happen will be between two females. So, I wouldn't base a decision on pets on gender alone. I've seen some seriously hardcore fights between females. And between males/females. So ... I think the gender thing isn't a good criteria for avoiding dog/dog aggression.

Do you (the OP) have gates? The kind that go in between doors. While a St. Bernard may be able to get over them ... at 10 years old, will he really want to? Meanwhile, the boxers won't be able to get over the gates. So, that's another idea.

[remijo]

Gates are a good idea. Right now we are living with the in-laws so its not really feasible but maybe in our new home. The St definitely doesn't want to do any jumping but if he wanted to, he could probably push it right over. We definitely don't want to rehome them but to the one that said dogs are a lifetime commitment and we should keep them all no matter what - while I agree, its also not good if one of them ends up seriously hurting the other to where we would have to put one down or something like that. Not only that but I'm worried the baby might make them more territorial and thus more likely to fight. I am looking into behaviorists, but I don't know if we can afford it right now. Thanks everyone for the great ideas! It is working ok right now to keep them separated and that is likely what we will continue to do until we can come up with something more permanent (training or something).

[remijo]

Oh, to all you wise doggy owners - does it make a difference that the female hasn't been spayed yet? Do you think that is more likely to make the male boxer (her lifelong friend) more aggressive?

[Ola_]

Yes! Even neutered dogs can smell the hormones and will go a little crazy, even though they don't have the equipment anymore.

[greenmagick]

OMG YES! Spay her!

[mamallama]

Yeah--spay the female ASAP! That's a huge trigger.

I think stress also plays a big part--no doubt the change in living situation has caused the dogs some stress, plus they pick up on the stress the humans feel. All of that translates into a potential shake-up in the pack order, so it doesn't surprise me at all that your adolescent/newly adult male is jockeying for dominance over your older male.

We moved twice with spayed (adult,) female dogs. They were never the best of friends, but most of the time they got along ok. The two times we moved, we had to keep them separated with gates & crates for the days leading up to and the first few days in the new place. The younger, ambitious dog just couldn't let the potential shake-up pass by without making a move of her own.

Both times, once we were settled, the dogs cooled out and everything was more or less fine again (ie-we still had to be careful with food and treats, but they weren't constantly at each other's throats.)

I agree with the advice to seek out a trainer/behaviorist...but I'm thinking that if it were me and I were between homes and living with family, I might not have the cash to shell out...so in that case, I would hang tight, spay the female, keep the dogs separated, practice strict NILIF with all, and keep stress to a minimum.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by Kirsten

I think this is why my dp absolutely will NOT agree to any pets that are male.

My male cats have always been sweeter than the females.

[angie7]

Originally Posted by remijo

Oh, to all you wise doggy owners - does it make a difference that the female hasn't been spayed yet? Do you think that is more likely to make the male boxer (her lifelong friend) more aggressive?

Absolutely it does...Why are you keeping the dogs intact in the first place? You said that you neutered the male after the first fight, why didn't you spay the female when you got her? Spaying doesn't only prevent fights and puppies, it helps for medical reasons for the female as well (it cuts down certain types of cancer). Get her spayed ASAP.

[Sailor]

Yes, spay - spay spay spay spay! That would help A LOT.

Like the pp, I'm also wondering why you were keeping two unspayed dogs together - especially since the boxers were male/female. That could have ended badly (puppies)! And then you really would have had a lot on your plate. Did you adopt from a shelter/rescue - if so, they should have been spayed/neutered already, before you got them.

Anyway, spaying will also be better for her health in the long run.

[KimL]

i don't think keeping them seperate is helping your situation at all. if your a family then that's that... you don't seperate family members within the same living space! Consult a behaviorist... i imagine they'll solve your issues in a flash!

[remijo]

Originally Posted by angie7

Absolutely it does...Why are you keeping the dogs intact in the first place? You said that you neutered the male after the first fight, why didn't you spay the female when you got her? Spaying doesn't only prevent fights and puppies, it helps for medical reasons for the female as well (it cuts down certain types of cancer). Get her spayed ASAP.

Ok, I do deserve this chiding absolutely. We got the dogs from a guy who was intending to breed them - thus why they didn't come spayed and neutered to our family. So we neutered the male immediately to prevent puppies but moved soon after and are now living in a temporary situation where she has to be outside most of the time and we are concerned that she will get an infection if we spay her now.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

She has a higher chance of getting free and getting pg than she would getting an infection from her spay.

I hope that you are able to get her fixed soon. I want a boxer so badly but sofar nothing has came our way.

[Nicole915]

Originally Posted by remijo

We got the dogs from a guy who was intending to breed them - thus why they didn't come spayed and neutered to our family..

The only reason you should breed dogs is if they are of type that would inprove the lines of the breed in question. In order to determine this, you will need to enter your dogs in dog shows, have their hips and knees OFA certified and work with a reputable breeder in your area to ensure that the puppies will be well homed.

Originally Posted by remijo

So we neutered the male immediately to prevent puppies but moved soon after and are now living in a temporary situation where she has to be outside most of the time and we are concerned that she will get an infection if we spay her now.

The risk of infection during a routine spay is far less than the risk of pyometra, dog fights and 'accidental' puppies. Please please please contact your local humane society and get her in for a spay. She will only have to stay one night, and it should be affordable.

(*I'm not your veterinarian, and this isn't medical advice*)