Did anyone else refuse consent even though their so wanted to circ?

[ashleedio]

This is what it looks like it's going to boil down to. After WWIII, dh said that he will NOT be "okay with" our ds remaining intact, and that it upsets him because he knows that *I* am the one who is going to ultimately "win," and he feels he has no say. He remains completely pro-circ, even though I've disputed all of his reasons with facts about why it's unnecessary. I've shown him research, the Penn and Teller video - the whole nine. It's his personal preference, because he feels it's "preventative" and "more cleanly" and no amount of research, data, etc can persuade him otherwise. It's boiled down to him saying that while he is 100% against it, he realizes that I have the final say and basically that he'll be very hurt and hold a grudge if I go knowingly against his wishes, because it's his son, too. However, my mind is made up and my son WILL remain intact.

Did anyone else have this disagreement? I hate thinking that my dh will feel as though I "betrayed" him, but at the same time, it's not something that I am willing to do to my son. I feel like it's between a rock and a hard place, and am just looking for advice of anyone who has btdt and how long it took to "blow over."

[Bea]

Originally Posted by ashleedio

This is what it looks like it's going to boil down to. After WWIII, dh said that he will NOT be "okay with" our ds remaining intact, and that it upsets him because he knows that *I* am the one who is going to ultimately "win," and he feels he has no say. He remains completely pro-circ, even though I've disputed all of his reasons with facts about why it's unnecessary. I've shown him research, the Penn and Teller video - the whole nine. It's his personal preference, because he feels it's "preventative" and "more cleanly" and no amount of research, data, etc can persuade him otherwise. It's boiled down to him saying that while he is 100% against it, he realizes that I have the final say and basically that he'll be very hurt and hold a grudge if I go knowingly against his wishes, because it's his son, too. However, my mind is made up and my son WILL remain intact.

Did anyone else have this disagreement? I hate thinking that my dh will feel as though I "betrayed" him, but at the same time, it's not something that I am willing to do to my son. I feel like it's between a rock and a hard place, and am just looking for advice of anyone who has btdt and how long it took to "blow over."

I've never been in the position you describe, my husband although circ'd, was 100% for not circing but I have to say. GOOD FOR YOU! in your stance.

I've read posts here broadly similar to your situation and it seems to me, the majority of men accept and even embrace their sons intact status but I can think of one poster at least whose husband still has issues with it even years later.

The thing is, if your husband falls into the latter category, that's HIS problem and ultimately he should seek some type of help as to why a lack of painful, pointless cosmetic surgery on his newborn sons penis is worth a lifetime of pouting.

[Epona]

Good for you!

He'll come around.

[ashleedio]

He's not much of a pouter, but in phrasing it to me in that way, I can see where it would come across that way. He's let me call every shot there is in regards to parenting our dd - cosleeping, bf'ing, cd'ing, vax schedule, gentle discipline, etc -completely takes my lead and does what I feel is best as a united front and has never put his foot down about ANYTHING, so he feels that if he feels passionately about this one thing, I should respect it. While I DO respect him, I cannot let my son be circ'd - I just can't. I even toyed with the idea of letting it happen, for a fleeting moment, before breaking down into tears and saying that I couldn't live with myself if I did.

[infraread]

Yes, we went through a similar situation when my LO was born last winter. I tried to convince him before birth, and he just wouldn't talk about it... in the hospital I refused to sign the consent, and we fought. Loudly. Ugly things were said, it was horrible. Where we were, they wouldn't do it without my consent and that really pissed him off. We continued to fight over it for a couple of weeks after and I really thought I would end up divorced. But my LO is still intact, and we are still married.

Within a month, it was a non issue. Or, if it's still an issue with him, he keeps it to himself. Your mileage may vary, just throwing that out there to let you know that you are not alone.

[averlee]

OK, don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but this is what I see. many fathers are threatened by the issue- it might bring up feelings like, my mom did this to me but she must have loved me, my penis was "mutilated", my wife/lover "prefers" intact penises, my penis is "normal" and uncirced is "weird".
No, mama. You can not let anyone cut your infant son's penis. One thing that really convinces many circed men, is just how often these "minor" procedures are botched. Like, a huge percent of circumcisions have to be "corrected" with a second and third surgery. Often they can not be corrected- if too much tissue is removed, it can never be repaired.
Finally, many mamas have won the circ war by just getting dad to agree, not before we leave the hospital. Not before the first round of vax. Not before we're done weaning. Or, not until the child is old enough to understand. In the Jewish tradition the briss is on day 8, some Jewish moms work their magic and convince dad to call it off, or postpone it, in those 8 days.

[eepster]

This article might help you understand why this is an issue where he can not be rational.

I would avoid bringing the subject up at all. Since only you can give consent (though make sure all medical staff know this just in case,) there is no need to try to get him on your side, and further attempts to do so will just make him more defensive.

[knucklehead]

Originally Posted by ashleedio

He's let me call every shot there is in regards to parenting our dd - cosleeping, bf'ing, cd'ing, vax schedule, gentle discipline, etc -completely takes my lead and does what I feel is best as a united front and has never put his foot down about ANYTHING, so he feels that if he feels passionately about this one thing, I should respect it. While I DO respect him, I cannot let my son be circ'd - I just can't. I even toyed with the idea of letting it happen, for a fleeting moment, before breaking down into tears and saying that I couldn't live with myself if I did.

I have never understood this argument that a lot of pro circing partners use. I think all parenting choices decisions should be made by both parents after both have educated themselves on the subject at hand. I don't think it's fair for one to say "well I let you decide on vaxing therefore I should get to decide on circing". Both parents have the responsibility to make educated decisions. I think sometimes this happens because there is just generally a lack of interest and it's easier to let the other parent do all the work.

I can say in my own family that DH never picks up a book or reads a single article about vaxing, breastfeeding, co-sleeping etc. unless I specifically say "read this". Now, I will admit in some ways this makes it easier on me because there is no arguing about the things I am passionate about. DH just generally says he respects my intelligence and trusts my decisions. Whether this is a true compliment or whether he is just lazy remains to be seen.

And luckily (for DH) he completely agreed with keeping our boy intact even though (or maybe because of) he was circ'd as an infant. I can tell you though in all honesty if DH told me that he had wanted DS circ'd because he "let me" make all the other decisions I would have ERUPTED. Circing or not circing is not like picking nursery paint vs. the car seat color. It shouldn't be a let's take turns sort of proposition. Ultimately it comes down to what is in the best interest of the child and clearly hacking off vital genital tissue ISN"T!

[Momalea]

I wasn't in the same situation because my dh was fine with not circumcising, however he didn't see what the big deal was all about. However, once ds was born he felt very strongly about not circ because he couldn't imagine intentionally causing his baby pain. So, maybe your dh will have a change of heart once your ds is born.

My heart goes out to you, if my dh felt strongly about circ I would have fought him as well and that's hardly the stress you need when you're pregnant/post-partum.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

mama It is hard to do what you know is right when you face oposition especially from a loved one.

[ashleedio]

The hardest part is that dss was circ'd immediately following his birth - dh cut the cord, they walked him over to the table, did the circ, he cried for a moment and then was bandaged, wrapped and handed to dh's ex. I tried to explain how babies are in shock and often don't respond to pain, but he thinks that after the pain and shock of being born, that a little "snip" isn't a big deal, and that he won't "remember" it. Point is, *I* will remember it, and I refuse to let it happen. He offered to care for the circ and change all diapers until he was healed - I still won't give in. I feel bad that I'm "going over his head" so to speak, but I will if I have to. It's just something that I feel too strongly about. He doesn't care that he'll look "different," that's not his argument at all - but he feels that since he never regrets for a moment that he's circ'd (and his mother had no say - he's adopted and the hospital did it without anyone's consent, apparently) that he feels he knows what's best in terms of having a penis. *insert eye roll*

[catholic74]

My husband said the exact same things..I could have written the script and it was horrible and two years later, my husband still has issues, but we are ok. He still doesn't agree with me on the issue and maybe he never will and the whole thing makes me sad, but I never regret protecting my son and doing the right thing.

We didn't have the formal situation of having to "consent" or refuse the circ because we had a home birth so that helped alleviate any immediate pressure anyway. Mostly we just don't talk about it and go on with our lives.

Just to let you know you might find that your husband refuses to change diapers or avoids doing it and that he might act very uncomfortable when your son is running around naked as so many babies do! It's irritating and unfair, but if you can don't let those things turn into a heated arguement because your husband is probably just really struggling with is emotions around the issue.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by ashleedio

The hardest part is that dss was circ'd immediately following his birth - dh cut the cord, they walked him over to the table, did the circ, he cried for a moment and then was bandaged, wrapped and handed to dh's ex. I tried to explain how babies are in shock and often don't respond to pain, but he thinks that after the pain and shock of being born, that a little "snip" isn't a big deal, and that he won't "remember" it. Point is, *I* will remember it, and I refuse to let it happen. He offered to care for the circ and change all diapers until he was healed - I still won't give in. I feel bad that I'm "going over his head" so to speak, but I will if I have to. It's just something that I feel too strongly about. He doesn't care that he'll look "different," that's not his argument at all - but he feels that since he never regrets for a moment that he's circ'd (and his mother had no say - he's adopted and the hospital did it without anyone's consent, apparently) that he feels he knows what's best in terms of having a penis. *insert eye roll*

Stick to your guns, you're right and your son deserves a strong advocate like you. It's fine that your husband is happy he should give us son the espect to decide that for himself too.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by ashleedio

he won't "remember" it.

This argument just kills me! It's a very well known fact that traumatic events that we do NOT remember are the very ones that mess us up the most. That is why people pay lots of money to shrinks to help them to REMEMBER, so they can deal with their issues/fears/trauma. Just because he actively does not remember does not mean it didn't affect his personality in a dramatic way.

[ashleedio]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

This argument just kills me! It's a very well known fact that traumatic events that we do NOT remember are the very ones that mess us up the most. That is why people pay lots of money to shrinks to help them to REMEMBER, so they can deal with their issues/fears/trauma. Just because he actively does not remember does not mean it didn't affect his personality in a dramatic way.

I totally agree. I decided that the mama bear has come out and is not going back into her cave. My son will be one less baby who has a non-necessary, cosmetic procedure.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by ashleedio

I totally agree. I decided that the mama bear has come out and is not going back into her cave. My son will be one less baby who has a non-necessary, cosmetic procedure.

what a lucky boy :!

[vachi73]

I have nothing to add that these many wise posters haven't said already, but I just wanted to give you a thumbs-up for sticking to your guns!!

Also, (warning - big generalization forthcoming!) I think that men tend to "get over" these things eventually and not look back as much as us women tend to. My DH was on-board with leaving our boys intact (despite himself having been circ'd as an infant, even in England - his crazy parents must've searched high and low for that doctor!!!), but on all of these things, he's way over it before I am. I hope this is the case for your DH, too.

[Juvysen]

Maybe say "well, since WE can't agree, why don't we wait until baby is 15 (or 18, whatever) and let him decide. It *is* his penis, you know..."

[Fyrestorm]

Be VERY careful about the consent thing. In my state, the husband is automatically considered the legal father and is allowed to consent to what ever procedure they want. They have even been known in my local hospital to separate the parents and get consent from the one who is willing.

You will want to write "I do NOT consent to circumcision" all over your paperwork.

He will also be able to take your son to any Ped he wants and have it done without your consent after you leave the hospital. I have heard of this being done or threatened.

Since it is he that wants to have surgery preformed on your newborn, he should have to be the one to prove that it's necessary. "I'm cut and I'm fine" is not a legit reason.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by ashleedio

This is what it looks like it's going to boil down to. After WWIII, dh said that he will NOT be "okay with" our ds remaining intact, and that it upsets him because he knows that *I* am the one who is going to ultimately "win," and he feels he has no say. He remains completely pro-circ, even though I've disputed all of his reasons with facts about why it's unnecessary. I've shown him research, the Penn and Teller video - the whole nine. It's his personal preference, because he feels it's "preventative" and "more cleanly" and no amount of research, data, etc can persuade him otherwise. It's boiled down to him saying that while he is 100% against it, he realizes that I have the final say and basically that he'll be very hurt and hold a grudge if I go knowingly against his wishes, because it's his son, too. However, my mind is made up and my son WILL remain intact.

Did anyone else have this disagreement? I hate thinking that my dh will feel as though I "betrayed" him, but at the same time, it's not something that I am willing to do to my son. I feel like it's between a rock and a hard place, and am just looking for advice of anyone who has btdt and how long it took to "blow over."

Well, what it sounds like is from the start (in some in direct way) that "your idea was right, and his was wrong, and to prove it here is evidence why your wrong".

If thats true, I think a major issue he has here is less about the circumcision and more that (as he says) feels "betrayed" and hurt. Because instead of raising the baby together, you have picked it up and ran off saying you know whats best.

What you need to do is stop with the facts, and points proving your right. Instead sit down with him and ask him why he wants it done, let him express his side.

Here is a key line from your post, "However, my mind is made up and my son WILL remain intact."

Not to sound rude, but just as much as your husband has no right to circumcise him, you have no right to say he must be intact. Thats the wrong wording.

You need to make it clear to your husband that this is not about what he wants, or what you want either. That all you want is your son to get to make this personal decision about his body, for HIMSELF. And the only way of doing that is keeping him intact. Tell him you will support whatever your son wants when he is 18, because all your trying to protect here is his choice.


With that, the discussion moves off "whose right" (which can just lead to hurt feelings) and moves to the health and happiness of your son. And thats a point both of you can have an easier time agreeing on.