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discipline vs punishment

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
Hi mommas-

I have just come to the conclusion that I just punish and I don't discipline. My bringing up was very punitive, and I have just just realized that there IS a difference. To me punishment is just a dictatorship- you WILL do this/don't do that or I will take this away/time out. It's all about control and you constantly have to assert your dominance. Discipline on the other hand seems to me more like a guidance; that the parent is always a step ahead of the kid and shows/teaches them on how to be.

My dd has just turned 3 and is triggering all sorts of stuff for me. Does anyone have any advice on taking steps to wean yourself from the punishment mindset and to one of discipline? Hows does one discipline a 3 year old? How does one assert boundaries, and behaviors without using the simple formula of punishment? Most days I feel like I am in the trenches with her and there is no sense of objectivity...

thanks so much for any ideas, advice or thoughts!
post #2 of 7
I've found that I have a different criteria for unacceptable discipline, for what seems punitive to me: am I trying to hurt my child? It's so hard to let go of the notion that I should be in charge of everything, at every minute, that I should have a quick fix for things that will be outgrown but may take awhile. A punitive mindset seems to expect that a consequence can always be levied that is so severe that an issue will never arise again. People develop more gradually than that and a lot of the journey of a family is working through rough patches together.

You can't always be a step ahead of a child. I do think that at 3, even age-appropriate messes (for example) have the logical response of "help my clean this up." Editing in: I noticed at some point that sometimes what seemed to be the best response could be labeled "punitive" or be "logical" or "imposed" rather than the natural consequence that we tend to prefer. Freeing myself from labels has been very helpful.

It was very difficult for me at that time because I had found books to be so helpful before but it seemed like everything was written either for parents of infants or school-aged kids. Not so much for toddlers.

A lot of dealing with a 3 year old is still redirection and adapting the environment for mutual success. For example: a biggie for one of my kids then was the salt shaker. They simply could not resist emptying it if they saw it on the table. I chose to put it up out of reach rather than to continue the conflict. Minor inconvenience at meal times, to have to remember to put it back and then up again. Much less trying than cleaning up salt while wonder why on earth they couldn't just GET IT!

I understand the triggers. I let them keep me from setting appropriate limits, I now think. Still working on this one


Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamille View Post
Hi mommas-

I have just come to the conclusion that I just punish and I don't discipline. My bringing up was very punitive, and I have just just realized that there IS a difference. To me punishment is just a dictatorship- you WILL do this/don't do that or I will take this away/time out. It's all about control and you constantly have to assert your dominance. Discipline on the other hand seems to me more like a guidance; that the parent is always a step ahead of the kid and shows/teaches them on how to be.

My dd has just turned 3 and is triggering all sorts of stuff for me. Does anyone have any advice on taking steps to wean yourself from the punishment mindset and to one of discipline? Hows does one discipline a 3 year old? How does one assert boundaries, and behaviors without using the simple formula of punishment? Most days I feel like I am in the trenches with her and there is no sense of objectivity...

thanks so much for any ideas, advice or thoughts!
post #3 of 7
I find myself struggling with this as well. There are days when all of my creative discipline ideas just fly away, and I am left with shouting, and authoritarian threats.

My oldest (3) wants to be seen as helping, so I try to take advantage of that stage as much as I can. She wants to teach her younger sister, so I let her teach by example, with things like potty usage, and kind words/hands. We have a chart for my oldest, and I really try to praise her and bring up good things that she's done to try to steer her away from bad things she might do or be doing.

It is a daily struggle, and I wear myself out trying to fight it.
post #4 of 7
Changing your mindset- what worked for me was to fill my mind & environment with the kind of values I did want to live out. Think about them, immerse yourself in them until they start to become more real and tangible than the old patterns. Books (Easy to Love, Difficult to Discpline- does your library have it?), cds (I liked Naomi Aldort's & she does have toddler ones), notes left around the house in key places, a journal to track my journey... was what helped me really counteract my old brain patterns.

My biggest successes come when I a) realize I am the only one who can allow myself to become upset or irritated (even if someone else "triggers" it, I am still in control of how I choose to react) and b) attribute positive intentions to the people around me- rather than looking at my kid's behaviour as "naughty, bad, defiant", to look at behaviour I don't want repeated as signs my child needs instruction on what *to* do.

The reason why it can be hard to make this shift is because we're conditioned to look at "bad" behaviour as the problem, when really, the behaviour is only a SYMPTOM of the problem. For instance, if you have a rash, your problem is probably toxins or allergens. To supress the rash with a harsh drug or cream without eliminating the toxins or allergens will not address the true cause, and (from a natural health perspective, anyways) will only drive the problem deeper inside your body instead of allowing your body to eliminate it through your skin... then it becomes a systemic and chronic problem instead of a minor skin irritation.

I think behaviour is much the same- whereas I used to view my two year old stomping his feet when he didn't get his way as "disrespectful"- something to be stopped- now I see he is just emptying out excess negative energy that builds up inside of him and I encourage him to let it all out. We can even turn it into fun and have a stomping dance. When he does something it is not ok to do (like changing all the settings on my washing machine *while* it is running), I have to redirect him, even pick him up and bring him to another room, and let him express his disappointment if need be... but he wasn't being "bad"- because his curiosity is age-appropriate, whereas instant adherence to commands, not so very age-appropriate!
post #5 of 7
I have an almost 3 yo and it seems to be just a big trigger fest around here some days!!

I think the pp talking about labels is SO RIGHT! It is so much harder to avoid being punitive/authoritarian if you are thinking terms of "naughty" or that DC is doing something "to" you.

I think mama time-outs or DC and mama time-ins can also be very helpful. When I find myself frazzled by DD, this can be so helpful. Luckily we are still nursing, so that can help. But sometimes when she is challenging me the most we really need to reconnect to bring me back to a calm level so I can guide better and not lose my patience.

It was helpful for me to read Unconditional Parenting and Playful Parenting. I think I need to reread, actually, but those 2 books were helpful for me to change my concept of behavior and how to deal with what is really going on vs just the immediate behavior. I think when we get all wrapped up in the immediate behavior, we are much more likely to be punitive.
post #6 of 7
Thread Starter 
thank you so much mommas! I feel like it is my monster hiding under the bed, and I so appreciate your words and ideas... I do think the labeling, or accepting the overgeneralization that my brain sometimes reacts to is a key... Also what Sparkle Fairy said about "A punitive mindset seems to expect that a consequence can always be levied that is so severe that an issue will never arise again." This is SO prevalent in my thinking... and I am going to spend some real time figuring out that one...
post #7 of 7
mamamille, I applaud you for looking for ways to teach your dd in ways different than those that were used on you. When our twins were toddlers, my DH used to say "I'm going to be the greatest paretn in the world - all I have to do is the opposite of what my parents did!" Unfortunately, knowing what NOT to do is not the same as knowing what TO do, and it is very difficult to learn new ways of behaving when our biggest role models (our own parents) did something else.

You hit the nail on the head when you distinguished between punishment and discipline. Punishment is designed to get a child to NOT do something - discipline helps them learn what TO do.

There are a ton of resources out there, but for me my whole parenting philosophy boils down to two words: trust and respect. I want my children to respect me, but I understand that respect has to be EARNED, and the way to earn respect from a child is to be consistent, fair, encouraging, adnd gentle. Treating my children with respect also shows them how I want them to treat others. One way this works in our house is that most rules apply equally to kids and grownups. No one is allowed to hit in our family - not kids or grownups. No one is allowed to leave the dinner table until everyone is finished eating - no matter how many things I have to do after supper, and no matter how slowly the kids eat! Everyone is required to do jobs around the house - even a 3-yr-old can help set or clear the table, or help put clothes from the washer to the dryer. We don't have chores because we are looking for slave labor - we all pitch in because we all benefit from getting things done - and the sooner the table is cleared, the sooner we can play a board game together.

Trust is the other huge thing, and consistency and fairness help develop trust as well. Of course you have to have rules, boundaries, and limits, but in our house rules were almost exclusively designed to keep our toddlers safe and healthy. If you maintain a set of rules that are fair and consistent - and if the child understands WHY the rule is important (for example, you MUST hold Mommy's hand crossing the street or in a parking lot, so you don't get hit by a car), and if the rules don't change from day to day depending on Mommy's mood, the child learns to trust that Mom's rules are there for a reason. As they get older, they more begin to understand and appreciate why we have certain rules.

A couple of examples: we are very careful about what our kids see on TV. Until they were about 10, my kids were crazy about dinosaurs, and when they saw a picture from the movie "Jurassic Park", they were fascinated, since they had believed that humans and dinosaurs didn't live at the same time. Obviously JP was too intense for a 5-yr-old, so DH and I made a g-rated version, editing out the violent bits, but leaving the story line intact. Years later they watched the uncut version, and both commented that they were VERY glad that we had not let them watch it that way when they were little! They trusted that we had made the right decision for them, to keep them safe (from nightmares, in this case).

Another example: in elementary school, every year our kids would grouse about wanting a later bed time, because their friends got to stay up later. Every time I gave them the same explanation: if you can wake up every morning without an alarm (or me waking you up), and you are well-rested, than you are getting enough sleep, and you can stay up later. If I have to drag you out of bed in the morning, then you need to go to bed early. Bedtime isn't arbitrary - it's determined by how much sleep your body needs, and what time you need to get to school in the morning. Eventually they realized that they were happier when they got more sleep, and now, as teenagers, they still go to bed at a reasonable time most nights - even on weekends.

The more often your child sees that the rules are there for a reason, the more the child will trust that new rules are also there for a reason.
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