Circumcision Then and Now: Differences? - Page 2

[Oubliette8]

There seems to be a wide variety of procedures currently used by Mohelim.

From what I've seen, it seems that ultra-orthodox tend to follow a very traditional procedure- the baby is held on the lap on the sandek, no tools are used besides a mogen shield, the procedure is over within a minute, ussually quicker, and in some ultraorthodox congragations they do the metzizah b'pah.

In less orthodox settings, some religious circumcisions are highly medicalized. Since they started training doctors to do bris, they seem to have brought their medical procedures with them. They may strap the baby to a circumstraint, place him on the table, use a mogen or gomco clamp, and often use hemostats, blunt probes, and other medical tools as well. Some of them even "prep" the baby in another room before the ceremony to cut down on the time it seems to take. These types of circumcision may last as long as a medical circumcision- up to 10 or 15 minutes.

Its hard to say what a typical Jewish bris looks like today, because depending on the mohel and the branch of judaism, the procedure can differe radically.

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by Oubliette8

Its hard to say what a typical Jewish bris looks like today, because depending on the mohel and the branch of judaism, the procedure can differe radically.

Very true. We belong to a reform congregation, and had our bris attended by an orthodox mohel and a reform rabbi (as our sandek). Ours looked very much like what you described as the "ultra-orthodox" model.

There is a ton of variation.

[AngelBee]

Thank you all for this conversation and keeping it nice. I am studying my Hebrew roots as a Christian and this is an issue that I have been thinking alot about lately. I really appreciate all of the answers so :

[HeatherB]

Very interesting discussion! I wanted to add this article (complete with references) that, for me, confirmed what I had already established by prayer and research. The additional facts were fascinating to me.

http://www.allnaturalmamas.com/bibli...rcumcision.asp

I believe many Christians believe that circumcision is mandated, without actually looking into it or questioning the "norm" that pervades our culture in the US. It's not unlike "babies sleep in cribs," or "all babies are born in hospitals," etc. So many people follow the proverbial crowd that they make decisions they don't even know they're making.

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by HeatherB

Very interesting discussion! I wanted to add this article (complete with references) that, for me, confirmed what I had already established by prayer and research. The additional facts were fascinating to me.

http://www.allnaturalmamas.com/bibli...rcumcision.asp

I believe many Christians believe that circumcision is mandated, without actually looking into it or questioning the "norm" that pervades our culture in the US. It's not unlike "babies sleep in cribs," or "all babies are born in hospitals," etc. So many people follow the proverbial crowd that they make decisions they don't even know they're making.

It's an interesting article. I take issue with a few things that aren't true:

First, there is no such thing as Judeo-Christian. It's a term thrown around by Christians, referring to the shared Hebrew Bible, but it doesn't mean anything. It's a useless term with no definition.

Because the Jewish faith disdained sexual impurity so greatly, it stands to reason that they may indeed have viewed circumcision as a way of reducing sexuality and therefore keeping themselves less inclined toward sexual sins.

and

The Israelites were not to eat certain animals (pigs and camels, to name two) because they were “unclean” (Deut 14:8; Lev 11). The reality was that many of these animals were not cured or cooked properly, and food poisoning was a bigger risk than with the meats deemed “clean.”

which are just patently false.

.........and here's where she loses the Jews:

God’s covenant with Israel had by no means come to an end, for as God had promised Abraham, it was to be an everlasting covenant. But it was soon to take on new depth and dimension, and become a new covenant, a new “testament” of God’s love and grace in the person of Jesus Christ.

It's an interesting article, but it's an article by a Christian and FOR a Christian, that has nothing to say about Jewish circumcision.

If that's who you meant it for, then cool. Just wanted to make sure that people knew that the OT opinions about Jewish thought and why circumcision persists in our community weren't accurate.

And Heather, I totally agree - it's not mandated for Christians (Galatians 2 something, I think) because Jesus is supposed to be the "new covenant" where belief in him is the be-all and end-all.

[HeatherB]

Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate

It's an interesting article, but it's an article by a Christian and FOR a Christian, that has nothing to say about Jewish circumcision.

If that's who you meant it for, then cool. Just wanted to make sure that people knew that the OT opinions about Jewish thought and why circumcision persists in our community weren't accurate.

And Heather, I totally agree - it's not mandated for Christians (Galatians 2 something, I think) because Jesus is supposed to be the "new covenant" where belief in him is the be-all and end-all.

Ah, I hope I didn't misrepresent. It is definitely an article by a Christian, for Christians. It does address the "are Christians required to circ?" question, as well as the idea that biblical circumcision is a very different thing from modern circumcision. That was the part I was unaware of and was glad to learn a bit more about. I really have been pleased to read the first-hand accounts of current Jewish bris customs on this thread, as well.

And, to be honest, I haven't read the article in the last year or so, so I don't recall the full details. I'd be interested in discussing some of the other points, but fear they're a bit off topic on this thread.