Could use some help/support

[athansor]

I'm in a bit of a church crisis right now, and could use some suggestions, support, etc.

Some background...I was raised Catholic, and loved two things about the Church, the focus on social justice (I'm of an age to recall when many churches and priests were spreading Liberation Theology), and the traditional, beautiful services.

In recent years, I drifted away from the Catholic Church, and found a church home in the Episcopal Church. During those years, my first marriage (with no kids) sorta fell apart and I had an amicable divorce, then later remarried in the Episcopal Church, had 2 great kids and am part of a happy family. Two years ago, I was received formally into the Episcopal Church.

Since then we've moved twice, including a move one year ago to our current home. We live in a great old town, with lots of history and many beautiful churches. So, I looked up the Episcopal church in town and was pleased when I drove by and it was an amazing looking church...my previous two churches were modern, and fairly boring from an architecture perspective, although they were great, vibrant communities.

So, when I attended the first time, I was surprised to see only about 10 people at the service. I've been attending faithfully since then, and have found the priest to be a wonderful, inspiring person. However, I'm feeling myself drifting away for two reasons. One is that the church is so small, there is often no nursery unless I'm doing it. So, most services involve me taking my kids to the nursery, trying to come up in time for communion, then staying around for the last prayers and songs. Since the congregation is so small, it's also hard to find any sense of community in worship. I really miss being part of a vibrant church.

I've learned that the reason the church is so small in numbers is that the year before I moved here, many of the parishioners left to form an Anglican Church because they were opposed to the ordination of gay and women bishops. I'm pretty liberal in that area, and personally support the ordination and election of both our presiding Bishop and Bishop Gene Robinson.

I have to admit, I'm tempted, though, as the new Anglican Church has a nursery and Sunday School, although the one time I attended mass there, I really felt like I was selling out and betraying the folks at the Episcopal Church.

So, I don't know what to do...I figure I have a few options.
One, stay with the local Episcopal Church, and work to get more involved and see if I can motivate more attendance (any suggestions for doing that would be welcome). My only concern is that lately I find myself not wanting to go to Mass, and almost feel like some sort of agnosticism is stalking me.

Two, attend the Anglican Church so I can participate and have my kids learning something in Sunday School and nursery. The downside is that I disagree with their primary reason for leaving the Episcopal Church...and a shallow reason, they are currently meeting in an old school gym..and I love my beautiful 150 year old church.

Three, consider looking for either a liberal leaning Catholic church (there are a lot of Catholic churches here in town) or another denomination with a traditional service and a social justice outlook. I might have to try for an annulment in that case.

I imagine that the first option is the right thing to do, but I'd sure like some thoughts on these issues.

[springmama]

I am kind of in a similar situation. I am attending an Episcopal Church and have been for about 4 months. I really like it a lot and the faith itself feels like the right one for me. I feel comfortable with my children there and what they are being taught in Sunday School. But it is a small parish and I am the youngest adult attending by far. There is only one other family with young kids and they are at least a few years older than me. Even though I have met many wonderful, loving, amazing people, most are older than my parents. and I wish that there were more young people.

I have sort of been looking into the Catholic Church and it began because of the lack of young families at the Episcopal Church, however I am having trouble with a couple of church doctrines and I feel completely uninspired by the mass there. My town only has one Episcopal Church and two Catholic Churches. So I've been wondering what I should do as well. For me right now I am going to continue with the Episcopal Church and pray, pray , pray for God to lead me in the right direction. I feel that possibly the church can grow and since we are looking for a new rector maybe that will bring about some growth bringing in young families. I have been so warmly welcomed as this youthful presence and everyone has been so happy to have me and my children there.

I bet your church is so happy to have you there too. And I agree with you about not wanting to go to the Anglican Church, I also feel that women and homosexuals should be ordained but it would be tempting not to switch because it sounds like they have more of a congregation and ministry for children. And the gym thing would bother me too - shallow I know but it would bother me nonetheless. Maybe you could see if your current church could enter some kind of natural church development. I know that ours has a church health team and they are working to make improvements to the church and grow its ministry. PM me if you want any more specific help with that. Keep praying and God will lead you in the right direction.

[lilyka]

i don't have a lot of insight to offer as far as which church would be better for you but i do have some insight on the whole no nursery no sunday school thing.

first of all there would be a few more members of the church if you and your kids were in on worship. I mean really. are the few people there going to complain about a little kid noise as they learn to pray and worship along side everyone else? in our church there is no nursery and sunday school is the last 15 minutes of the service (during the homily and announcements). and our services are 1.5-3 hours depending on when you get there. most kids do fine. they are free to move and venerate icons, light candles, walk around participate in the choir, communion, know the liturgy, understand it etc.....they do fine because it has always been a part of their life. sometimes it gets loud but people are pretty tolerant. maybe it is because they understand it is important, maybe it is because they have no desire to volunteer ina nursery either way.... (just kidding, there is a sign at the entry of the church that says - paraphrasing - kids are a part of our community. get over it) but as a parent it is our job to teach our children to pray and worship. they do not need watered down kids lessons at church. teach them the liturgy and prayers at home, read them the stories of the saints, go over the scripture readings before the service and softly talk to them through the service. you will be suprised how much even babies pick up. understanding will grow as your child repeats and internalizes the actions. its all part of the process. I know lots of people find kid friendly congregations appealing (ones where kids are included in the service, not shuffled out to childrens ministries).

secondly - even if you still want all the latest and greatest kid programs will it profit them at all to be going to these programs in a church that does not share your beliefs?

[Adele_Mommy]

I would write off option two, because no way would I attend a church formed solely to allow the members to discriminate against gay people and women, but that's just me.

I have a very different perspective on children in religious services than lilyka, but in this case I agree with her suggestion. You love your church building and say you find the priest inspiring, so I would try attending there at least a few more times, but keep your kids with you during the service. This way you can get a sense how the congregation reacts. And you may find having your children there does help the church to become more vibrant because the congregation will appear more family-friendly to visitors. Also, you can determine whether your not wanting to go to mass is mostly a result of the way you have to attend, missing large chunks and providing nursery care for your kids. I would suggest bringing a quiet book or activity to help keep your kids entertained.

If you find that the congregation reacts negatively to your bringing your kids with you (I would be rather surprised if this were the case), or you realize that your feelings of disenchantment with mass are separate from the childcare situation, then you can reevaluate what you want to do going forward. I wouldn't look at Catholic churches if you would need to get an annulment though. You could look at the United Church of Christ. They are very liberal and social justice focused. They might not be traditional enough for your tastes, though.

Good luck!

[athansor]

Actually, the church is very welcoming of the kids in the service. My biggest problem with regards to the kids is that right now the 15 month old is just too wiggly to hold in place, and if I put him down, he ends up running around the church...even that's not a problem, until he tries to climb stairs or head for the alter...but I do spend most of the service chasing him or trying to hold on. My other guy is older and could probably sit still if I provided enough stuff for him to do..but it's very hard to pay any attention.

Josh, the littlest, is pretty cute, though, for the last song, he likes to stand up in the front of the aisle and dance.

I like the idea of getting involved with more church development. One talent I have is for cooking, and I think I might offer a lunch after service. I've also been meaning to try something, we have two services, one early and one later on Sunday. I'm wondering if I get up and go by myself to the earlier service, then I could bring the kids to the later service and just hang out in the nursery. So far, though, I haven't been good at getting it together on Sunday morning.

[athansor]

A bit of a discouraging update today, there were only five people in the pews today....I give our priest credit for an enthusiatic service, but I think it's getting hard on him :sigh:

[lilyka]

(((hugs))) don't give up. its late summer. we have some weeks where 5 or 6 fasmilies show up. doesn't mean its not a vibrant community (or viable) it just means everyone is on vacation but you.

also did you say there were two services? why? are they different? have they considered consoldating them?

[weliveintheforest]

Originally Posted by athansor

I like the idea of getting involved with more church development. One talent I have is for cooking, and I think I might offer a lunch after service.

This might be really nice, especially if you did it once a month and people could look forward to it. Even if it was small at first it could be a really nice way to get to know one another. Simple soup and bread would be enough.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Adele_Mommy

I would write off option two, because no way would I attend a church formed solely to allow the members to discriminate against gay people and women, but that's just me.

I agree. I've lived this experience, and it's just not worth it imo. I was raised Southern Baptist, and from the time I was about 10, I disagreed with much of what our teachers and pastors said wrt social issues. Unfortunately my parents made me go. By the time I was 18, I was ready - and did - split with the church. Now I'll only walk into a SB church for a funeral or (possibly) wedding.

Later I attended a Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). They gradually became more conservative until we stopped going and returned to a UU church. I'd been to a UU congregation in college, so I knew I'd feel more at home. Here's the problem I had in the CC(DOC) church - I didn't *want* my children to be part of that community. They hired someone as the children's pastor who has spent her entire life in the SB tradition, and I started to see reminders of my own childhood. My son started making comments that were horrifying to me. From a theological perspective, I oppose the "you'll burn in hell" fire and brimstone that's taught even to very small children. I do not believe that we're not worthy of God's love. From a political perspective, the church promoted things, even among the children, that I oppose - a very big pro-military bent and an anti-abortion position. I realized pretty quickly after that pastor came that I would not be able to raise my children in that type of religious environment in good conscience. I just couldn't, so from that (very long) personal perspective, I would not try option 2.

[freestylemama]

I would stay in the Episcopal Church. It sounds like that's where your heart is. I left the Catholic Church even though there's a slightly left leaning parish near me. It's still Catholic and the money I gave them still supports things that I abhor. We go to a lovely United Church of Christ church. There are lots of young families now, but all of the older members constantly comment on how wonderful it is to see so many young families. For a long time there weren't many young people there at all and the church made some choices to recruit heavily and draw in lots of new members (mostly they've done this by being very present and welcoming in the gay community- this has drawn lots of families, gay and straight). They've also done more university outreach.

I think if your heart is where you are, work to bring more like minded families in.

Good luck!