My husband thinks I am a discipline failure.....advice?

[Mindy70]

Hello,

I have a girl, aged 6 and two boys, ages 26 mths and 4. Let me just describe a few problems we are having at our house:

4 yr old has learned to climb over our 5 foot gate when he wants to escape out of the backyard.

4 yr old needs TWO gates at night to keep him in his room so he wont be running all over the house at bed time and raiding the fridge, etc.

4 yr old has a horrible new hobby: run away from mom in the store and hide. Preferably when my attention is diverted by my two year old. Today was the second time this week a store had to do CODE ADAM because of my missing child.

This week 4 yr old had a blast taking ALL of the many clothes off the hangers from a hallway closet in order to swing from the bar like a money. At night he emptied 3 large shelves of books in his room to make a "book hill" :

Mt two year old is taking lessons from his older brother, and is a master at taking things apart and getting into things he doesn't belong in. They are both climbers and escape artists.

So my husband informed me that the boys are "out of control" and it must be because there are no consequences for their actions. (I do use time outs, but doubt they are working.)

Can anyone sympathize? do I need to put the 4 yr old kid back on a leash? Any other suggestions?

Oh, and BTW, DH and I had a HUGE fight because I want to install a lock high up on the back door so the kids can't go out back w/o my knowing (since ds can now scale the fence!) He thinks I am just putting "Bandaids" on the situation and I need to "teach him" not to do it anymore.

[298mom]

Hugs mama, you've got a lot to handle! I don't have experience with kids your age, so I'll let others help with that. But I do want to say - I'd say a lock isn't a bandaid, it's a safety feature. You can't be awake and watching him all the time. And I think it's a good idea. (although if he's such a good climber, he might figure out how to pull up a chair and unhook it?)

[Mindy70]

Well I was thinking of a deadbolt with a key, not a latch and hook.

It is true that I do often feel like the kids, especially the boys, are running circles around me. I feel overwhelmed keeping them safe and out of stuff, despite the child proofing we have. And I feel like 4 yr old ds is very head strong and wants to assert himself no matter what the consequences.

[allgirls]

Well sometimes you need a bandaid until the wound heals So why not a lock on the door until he gains some impulse control.

And that's likely what this is. He lacks impulse control. All kids do and it develops as they mature. At 4 he should be learning how to control them and the number one way to teach that is to talk about it. Explain that he needs to stop and think and show him what to do instead.

So if he likes to climb take him places where it's safe and do it a lot. Obviously it's a thing he likes to do and is good at.

If he likes to unlock things it's likely he'll like puzzles and construction toys. You'll have to get in there and show him how and so will your husband.

Kids can be wild, it's the nature of children to have high energy and crazy ideas with low impulse control.

I would do a diet scan...make sure there isn't anything obvious triggering it..like that chocolate icecream my dh gave my daughter the other night

He's 4. Lots of talking now. Not in the moment, but all the time. Talk about things that might happen and how he can do something different, talk about things that have happened and what might have been a better choice in that moment.

I find driving to be the best times for these conversations.

Good luck!

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by Mindy70

So my husband informed me that the boys are "out of control" and it must be because there are no consequences for their actions. (I do use time outs, but doubt they are working.)

OK, I don't want to be "siding" with your DH, but perhaps this has a ring of truth to it? I think consequences are one of the bests way for kids to learn. I think time outs are useless - what do they have to do with the actual event, problem....?

Your 4 yo sounds like a creative, energetic, rambunctious boy. There are many benefits to this type of personality - really, just maybe not so appealing at 4 years.

Take your example: 4 yr old has a horrible new hobby: run away from mom in the store and hide. Preferably when my attention is diverted by my two year old. Today was the second time this week a store had to do CODE ADAM because of my missing child. OK, so what would be the natural consequence to that? Tell your DS. very clearly, while you have his real attention, that next time he does that he will have a harness on afterwards. AND MEAN IT. Bring the harness with you - you can be discrete, you don't have to make another announcement to him. If/when he bolts and hides, when you get him back, put the harness on him for the rest of the shopping trip. Don't get mad, don't yell, don't give him any undue attention for his actions. Just put the harness on him. Tell him clearly that the consequences for him running are that he has a harness, and will have it the rest of the trip. Next time he shops he can try again. If I had to guess, he will do it twice, then that will be the end.

This week 4 yr old had a blast taking ALL of the many clothes off the hangers from a hallway closet in order to swing from the bar like a money. At night he emptied 3 large shelves of books in his room to make a "book hill"

Those both sound like FUN! And creative. So the consequences to the first would be to have to put all the clothes back on the hangers. Believe me, it would take you 5-10 minutes to put them all back, and it will take him an hour, with you sitting there making sure he is not distracted into doing something else. No getting mad, or even giving attention to the issue, just explain that he took the clothes off the hangers, he needs to put them back on. (OK, at 4 he might not be technically capable, but he needs to do some hard work here. You putting the clothes back doesn't teach him anything. You will have to figure how much he needs to help.) The "book hill" is even easier - he can definitely put the books back himself. And he can do it now, not after he plays with XYZ.... Again this will take you 5 minutes, and him 30, with some whining and distraction attempting during the process, but he will find out it is totally OK, even fun to make a book hill, but he also needs to clean up the book hill when he is done.

[flapjack]

I have two like this. When their dad/ stepdad doesn't respect me, they play up twice as much.

Yes, your 4yo absolutely belongs on a safety harness of some kind or even in a stroller. He's lost the privilege of being able to walk without one. He absolutely doesn't get to play out the back without you, and frankly, in my house he'd have lost the privilege to play anywhere other than the same room as me. I don't use time outs either, because they just don't work.
Where I'm concerned is that he's running a bit too wild. Is he in preschool? How's his behaviour there? Has his behaviour been evaluated? To me, this sounds right on the boundary between neurotypical and not, and if this were my kid I would want him checked out.

[mnm4242]

I feel for u mama...sounds pretty crazy. I was sitting here depressed about how hard my life is, but compared to yours it sounds much more bearable. I only have 1 kid as of now and she's 14 mos old. I am constantly thinking about whether I'm making the right decisions for her and worrying about her. This may not be what you're looking for but your post has made me feel better cuz I know I am not alone and we all have issues w/ our kids.

I would definitely put the lock on that door... Because it only takes once for him to escape. Good luck w/ your hubby.

[AutumnAir]

I don't have any experience with kids that age, but if I had him the 4 year old would definitely be back on a leash or in a stroller until he could show me that he was reliably able not to run away. I also don't think that putting locks on things is 'band-aiding' the situation. With a kid like that I think it's just responsible.

Does your DH have any concrete suggestions as to how to 'teach' your DS not to bolt or do the other stuff he does? It seems rather unfair that he's not contributing any ideas or suggestions, but criticising how you're dealing with it.

[sebandg'smama]

Originally Posted by allgirls

Well sometimes you need a bandaid until the wound heals

Love that allgirls!

OP, best of luck with your incredibly talented escape artist. Perhaps you and your husband can brainstorm ways that you can shop without your ds along?

[Sunflower223]

My 4 year old isn't nearly as adventurous but I still keep her confined in the store. Sometimes I put her in the cart, she particularly likes the stores that have the car carts (where it looks like she is driving a car). In places where that isn't a possibility I usually get a double stroller for dd and ds (2). I think 4 year olds are still struggling with impulses, and being distracted by my 2 year old I don't want to chance her being alone when I am by myself.

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by AutumnAir

Does your DH have any concrete suggestions as to how to 'teach' your DS not to bolt or do the other stuff he does? It seems rather unfair that he's not contributing any ideas or suggestions, but criticising how you're dealing with it.

This as well. DH and I get along splendidly, but on rare occasions he says he doesn't like xy or z, and I ask "what is your suggestion then?" You can't just say you don't like something, without some helpful suggestions. And then we hash it out and come up with a game plan. Sometimes he "wins", sometimes I "win", but most often we compromise. Being on the same page, and having the same consequences for the kids makes it all run smoother. He still has his style, I have mine, and we don't fret the small stuff. But the big stuff we come to some sort of agreement.

[alegna]

I don't think this is about consequences or punishment or discipline. This is about supervision. Clearly your 4 yr old is not prepared for the level of non-supervision he's getting. Time to be back under constant mommy-supervision. In the cart, worn or harnessed at the store, not outside alone -for even a moment-, no chance to escape or do these things. Perhaps back in your room to sleep so you'll know if he wakes.

-Angela

[One_Girl]

Your husband is being unreasonable about the lock, if the kids are leaving without your knowledge and putting themselves in danger then you need to have a lock and teach them about the dangers of getting out. Kids also love to hang on things, I used to hang on my closet bar when I was eight because I wanted to hang on something, it may help to get the kids out to a park where they can hang on things and get their energy out. I find that if my dd is exhausted from playing hard all day she gets to sleep easily and stays asleep.

I also think that you need to stop letting them have freedom they aren't ready for both at home and in the store. I think you need some kid leashes or a stroller that they are required to stay in while you are out of the house until they are more capable of staying safe. I think that your husband may be speaking out of fear because he is worried about the very real dangers your kids are putting themselves in by running off. I think that this makes some steps to keep them safe necessary.

[Mindy70]

Originally Posted by alegna

I don't think this is about consequences or punishment or discipline. This is about supervision. Clearly your 4 yr old is not prepared for the level of non-supervision he's getting. Time to be back under constant mommy-supervision. In the cart, worn or harnessed at the store, not outside alone -for even a moment-, no chance to escape or do these things. Perhaps back in your room to sleep so you'll know if he wakes.

-Angela

thanks everyone for the ideas and input. I think you might be right- I want to give the kids freedom, but it sounds like I have been giving them too much for their own good. Most of the mishaps happen when I am overwhelmed or busy with other things- like the four year old taking off while the two year old has thrown himself on the floor in the store and having a mini- tantrum, or the four year old running to go on another ride at the fair while I am helping the two year old out of the bouncy house.

So I guess I need to get a harness and/or step the supervision WAY up. My daughter was never like this, so I was somewhat unprepapred!

[alegna]

Different kids come so different just to keep us on our toes- I swear!

-Angela

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by flapjack

I have two like this. When their dad/ stepdad doesn't respect me, they play up twice as much.

Yes, your 4yo absolutely belongs on a safety harness of some kind or even in a stroller. He's lost the privilege of being able to walk without one. He absolutely doesn't get to play out the back without you, and frankly, in my house he'd have lost the privilege to play anywhere other than the same room as me. I don't use time outs either, because they just don't work.
Where I'm concerned is that he's running a bit too wild. Is he in preschool? How's his behaviour there? Has his behaviour been evaluated? To me, this sounds right on the boundary between neurotypical and not, and if this were my kid I would want him checked out.

totally agree with this post!

[rainyday]

I think you've gotten some good advice about supervision/harnesses/etc. And I totally agree that your child has shown he's not at all ready for the level of freedom he's had.

What really jumped out at me, though, is your relationship with your husband. It's very hard to parent effectively when you're not both on the same page, and especially hard when one parent criticizes the other's parenting without offering some suggestions. It's fine that your husband disagrees with how you handle things, but the two of you need to discuss those situations together and figure out how you will both handle them. If he doesn't like your idea of a lock, then the two of you need to discuss that and reach an agreement together. Total agreement is not always possible, of course, but discussion with a base level of respect needs to happen - and that's what I don't see in your description of your interactions with your husband about these problems.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by Mindy70

Oh, and BTW, DH and I had a HUGE fight because I want to install a lock high up on the back door so the kids can't go out back w/o my knowing (since ds can now scale the fence!) He thinks I am just putting "Bandaids" on the situation and I need to "teach him" not to do it anymore.

Uhg. Is your husband punishing you for parental actions that he feels are "your" responsibility by making you teach him as opposed to just putting a lock on the door? (Which by the way, I think is bull.. put the lock on the door!)

Perhaps the reason for your kids not taking your seriously is because they watch your partner not take you seriously.

I just can't imagine having that conversation in our house. The minute my kid escaped, regardless of whatever disciplinary action was in place (or not), we'd band aid the situation so fast her little escape artist head would spin. Kids escaping and then using that as an opportunity for one spouse to brow beat the other into "teaching" instead of safe guarding seems like a really bully-ish thing to say and do. It sounds like he's punishing you, not helping you with the kids.