Pregnancy & Swine Flu - Page 3

[milimama]

I'm kinda freaked out too! My hubby is a soldier. Our post has 64 cases of swine flu, five of which are my husband's privates.
Vaccines are a little different in the military as our posts are a bit like the airport with all the comings and goings. Plus there are international diseases to contend with...

When they offer it I may get it.

[cagnew]

I am not pregnant, but I will not be getting the vax. My children will not be getting the vax either.

Has anyone heard anything about FEMA and the military being used to "help" distribute the vax in the case of an "epidemic?" Here is the link to the story I read: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...-flu-outbreak/

What do you suppose that means? Can the government make people get vax'ed?

Sorry if this isn't relevant to this thread. I won't be mad if it gets deleted

[GAmomto5]

Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama

No way. Not a chance. I'd like to know how a vaccine that isn't recommended for infants under six months is considered safe for pregnant women. : What exactly do they think we are pregnant with?

Exactly!!:

[BeeBliss]

Honestly, the fear of getting H1N1 is keeping me up at night. But I don't think this is going to become a government conspiracy to force the vax.

I think the idea is that the military would have to step in if vaccine clinics or hospitals were mobbed by those not in the recommended age and demographic groups who would get vaccinated first or by those who need to be treated but aren't.

Part of the issue is that many states, like the one I live in, lag behind in stockpiling anti-virals (http://www.pandemicflu.gov/plan/states/antivirals.html). If there are outbreaks and mass chaos ensues as the result of these anti-viral shortages, then FEMA is reserving the right to call in the military (or transport blood for testing, etc...)

I also think the government is basing this on worst-case scenario using data from the 1918 flu pandemic and they just want to be prepared. Personally, it seems the federal government has seen too many Hollywood dramas on disease outbreaks and thinks we are all savages.

[dinahx]

The unborn will be exposed to more Thimerisol through this Flu shot series than ever before in history. If a mother is unaware or unable to access Thimerisol free vaccines, (which will not be that easy to access) her fetus will be exposed to 75 mcg of Thimerisol between this shot and the seasonal shot. More Thimerisol than fetuses have ever been exposed to before in history. This should have us all pulling our hair out in sorrow.

There are lawsuits a plenty about the 25 mcg that Fetuses were previously exposed to in Rhogham until the early 90s. Studies on Autism have NEVER considered fetal exposure.

I am not saying the disease is not a threat, but that doesn't equal, in my mind, accepting an equal or greater threat to prevent it.

[schoolmom07]

Originally Posted by newmum35

I wouldn't let anyone scare me about this. There are over 6 million PREGNANT women in the U.S. alone each and every year. (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/index.html) This is a HUGE number... how many of those have died from the swine flu? In fact the total # of deaths from swine flu in general is only in the hundreds and that includes everyone!!

It is true that pregnant women ARE "MORE" at risk of complications from swine flu than other people with the virus. However, what they are NOT telling you is that the swine flu is not unique in this respect!

Pregnant women have ALWAYS been more susceptible to complications of the flu! Were you scared of being pregnant during flu season in years past? If not, then you probably needn't be overly concerned this flu season either!


Even healthy pregnant women can have medical complications from the flu. This has been known since at least 1998 when a study examined the effect of the flu on pregnant women during 17 previous influenza seasons.
http://www.pamf.org/flu/preg.html



If I were pregnant this winter, I would be practicing normal common sense hygiene like I do each and every winter, including avoiding visiting friends or family members who are ill or recently ill, washing hands often after going out in public, etc.

I will NOT let the "media" or anyone else scare me and my unborn child into being human guinea pigs for this new vaccine.

[fullofhope08]

I must say I'm really torn on this subject and am really thankful for the information provided here addressing other side of the story. I am not a fan of vaccines, prefer to stear clear of them. I work in a hospital so there has been talk of pandemic planning, who will be vaccinated, etc. As a social worker, I'm seeing people on the medical floors daily. When I wasn't pregnant, I had no problem with my plan to refuse the vaccine. But now that I am pregnant, I am trying to balance the risks...If it's going to be as bad as they say, I will be exposed to it. My immune system will not be as strong as it normally is due to being pregnant...will I be placing my baby more at risk by exposing it to the virus or by taking the vaccine?? My plan at this point is to read up on the subject as much as I can, not take the vaccine immediately once it's available and hope for the best. If the situation starts getting out of control, then I may just have to bite the bullet and take the vaccine. I hope that a homeopathic option will become available...
I also am hearing from the information out there that complications seem to happen especially in the third trimester, so for me, there's time to see how it plays out. If it fizzles out by the new year, then I'll be glad to have kept my body free from the vaccine.

[bbrandonsmom]

I didn't read through each page-did anyone post the ingredients here, or the new update that the first dose will be nasal-which is NOT recommended for pregnant women or children or seniors.

I know families who've had the H1n1 already and it was much milder than the seasonal flu. I'm not letting the media scare me into injecting this stuff in my child.

[bbrandonsmom]

I wanted to add that the last few pages on the big swine thread cover a lot of pregnancy/infant concerns and have some good questions to ask yourself if you are pregnant.

[ruma]

I just watched Dr. Mercola interview Dr. Russell Blaylock on mercola.com. It is long but worth watching. It is about swine flu and the vaccination. I think it will answer a lot of your questions.

ruma

[ILoveSweetpea]

The most recent data show that from April 15 to May 18, 2009, thirty-four percent of the pregnant women infected with the H1N1 virus were hospitalized, and by June, six pregnant women had died.

source: http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/16...flu/index.html

If that 34% is accurate, that is really really shocking.

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by ILoveSweetpea

source: http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/16...flu/index.html

If that 34% is accurate, that is really really shocking.

it is, and that is what really makes this a hard one, because I'd like to do more then merely NOT die I don't want to be hospitalized.

Also, there are strains popping up all over the world that are resistant to anti-virals: so if you do get sick, the tami-flu might not respond.

It seems to be a very strong strain of the flu, hence it isn't mutating (yet) and it seems to be pushing every other strains of flu out-- for that reason I am going to get the H1N1 vaccine (thermisol free) but not the seasonal flu vaccine.

Look, sure the flu vaccine in the 70s had problems, but would one refuse cancer treatment today because it was bad in the 70s?

And it isn't a new vaccine, it is the same flu vaccine (which by the way does not have aluminum) that is produced every year--except it is swapped for the H1N1 virus instead of whatever other influenza type A virus the vaccine is developed for.

Insist that you have a thermisol free version. Look at the bottle, and verify that it is the single dose vial, and not the multiple dose vial. Even the walgreens here has a sign that if you are pregnant or would like the thermisol free shot, ask (this is for the regular seasonal flu vaccine).

[bbrandonsmom]

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac.../ucm181950.htm

Here are the insert link for you ladies-read over section 8 on all of them-it regards pregnancy. The stated yesterday that the nasal spray will be first, not injection-that ones states not safe pretty much. It's a live virus, which you can catch and can spread.

The other h1n1 thread has a huge discussion regarding pregnancy over there. They broke down a lot of the info already.

I'm curious though, why are some of you so afraid of catching this flu? What about the other flu or phnemonia? It's no different. Because it's a new strain, there is a ton of media hype about it. It was the same thing the last new strain of flu came out.

[LaffNowCryLater]

Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama

No way. Not a chance. I'd like to know how a vaccine that isn't recommended for infants under six months is considered safe for pregnant women. : What exactly do they think we are pregnant with?

I know, and every single flu vax insert says that is hasn't even been proven safe for pregnant women and they shouldn't get it unless "clearly needed", why they rec'd it for every pregnant woman is beyond me.

Originally Posted by ILoveSweetpea

source: http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/16...flu/index.html

If that 34% is accurate, that is really really shocking.

But that is only the number of confirmed cases. Not everyone that gets the swine flu goes to the dr for confirmation.

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by LaffNowCryLater

I know, and every single flu vax insert says that is hasn't even been proven safe for pregnant women and they shouldn't get it unless "clearly needed", why they rec'd it for every pregnant woman is beyond me.



But that is only the number of confirmed cases. Not everyone that gets the swine flu goes to the dr for confirmation.

the insert says the scary things because the FDA rarely (i.e. never) approves drugs for subclasses of adults (which pregnant ladies are). So they write that up and up it in there for *most* drugs.

They recommend it for pregnant women because this virus seems to be harmful to them:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=agSkfeIV2ryg

Pregnant women may be more vulnerable to swine flu because an infection-fighting blood cell fails to do its job within this group, Australian doctors said.

The finding emerged after doctors in Melbourne analyzed blood tests to determine why pregnant women made up a majority of their critically ill H1N1 patients. The results, reported at a medical meeting in San Francisco, showed six of seven of the women lacked a cell protein known as immunoglobulin G subclass 2, or IgG2. The antibody deficiency also was noted in seriously ill nonpregnant patients.

Doctors are now looking for the defect in others with the virus to confirm the association and determine whether it can help identify patients at risk of pneumonia and other complications. The hospitalization rate for pregnant H1N1 patients is more than four times that of the general population, a study last month in the medical journal Lancet found.

“This is the first time IgG2 subclass deficiency has been associated with influenza,” Claire Gordon, an infectious diseases doctor at Melbourne’s Austin Hospital and the study’s lead author, told the Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy.

[Deborah]

Some info on how it was figured out that flu is dangerous in pregnancy in the first place:
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/kwk103v1

I think this is the article that the first item was replying to:
http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/28/1/47

The first link describes the studies that supposedly demonstrated the safety of flu vaccine during pregnancy.

[ema-adama]

What is interesting about some of the studies mentioned is looking at the population studied. One of the studies in Bangladesh excluded pregnant women that fell into the high risk group, only healthy pregnant women were studied. And guess who they recommend the vaccine for? The pregnant women who are at higher risk, probably not being healthy, hence them falling into a higher risk group. Although it seems now that any pregnant woman regarldess of her personal health status is advised to accept this drug.

I am also curious as to just how effective the flu vaccine and the H1N1 vaccine are for pregnant women. Immune compromised people often do not respond to vaccination predictably. I wonder if anyone has actually studied the efficacy on pregnant women? Wouldn't that be a very important factor when deciding whether to administer a drug? Ie know whether the drug is going to react predictably in the population of pregnant women?

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

What is interesting about some of the studies mentioned is looking at the population studied. One of the studies in Bangladesh excluded pregnant women that fell into the high risk group, only healthy pregnant women were studied. And guess who they recommend the vaccine for? The pregnant women who are at higher risk, probably not being healthy, hence them falling into a higher risk group. Although it seems now that any pregnant woman regarldess of her personal health status is advised to accept this drug.

I am also curious as to just how effective the flu vaccine and the H1N1 vaccine are for pregnant women. Immune compromised people often do not respond to vaccination predictably. I wonder if anyone has actually studied the efficacy on pregnant women? Wouldn't that be a very important factor when deciding whether to administer a drug? Ie know whether the drug is going to react predictably in the population of pregnant women?

There is a study going on:
http://whsc.emory.edu/home/news/rele...ant-women.html

[ema-adama]

I have seen that study, thanks.

It is measuring one vaccine against another, Fluzone® or Fluarix® (the 2nd one has trace amounts of Thimerosal). I am not sure how they can establish how effective the flu vaccine is if they are measuring two flu vaccines against each other in a randomised study. Ie you get one or another type of flu vaccine randomly. There is no placebo. There is no control.

The safety issues being studied as mentioned on the website:

This study also is designed to study potential effects (safety wise) for up to 6 months.
Neonatal assessments will include but not be limited to gestational age, birth weight, Apgar scores, congenital abnormalities, infection, hematological and metabolic complications, admission to nursery or Neonatal Intensive Care Unit and the need for respiratory support.

The mother is studied for 6 months and the baby is studied at birth. That is all. Nothing beyond birth.

Another interesting part of the study design is the inclusion and exclusion criteria. I am fairly confident that women who do not fit the inclusion criteria will be told that the vaccine is safe and effective when they are sold the vaccine. That is if the results find that the vaccine is effective for pregnant women. Which I do not know how they can decide if they are testing two flu vaccines against each other.

The results from this study are estimated to be available in June 2010. Not very helpful for making a decision in the next weeks.

ETA: this is not a study on the swine flu vaccine.

[dinahx]

And it isn't a new vaccine, it is the same flu vaccine (which by the way does not have aluminum) that is produced every year--except it is swapped for the H1N1 virus instead of whatever other influenza type A virus the vaccine is developed for.

Insist that you have a thermisol free version. Look at the bottle, and verify that it is the single dose vial, and not the multiple dose vial. Even the walgreens here has a sign that if you are pregnant or would like the thermisol free shot, ask (this is for the regular seasonal flu vaccine).

I am so glad Walgreens has that sign! I wish they didn't frame it as a matter of 'personal preference' but whatev, as long as they are making the Thimerisol info accessible at the point of service I am elated!

However, there is no way this could be the same as another flu vaccine, for the fact that the FDA licensed 4 different versions, some of which have Thimierosol and non Thimerisol versions last week. There are also many different versions of the seasonal vaccine. So it doesn't work to say that any are the 'same' because you would have to specify which version, from which manufacturer you were speaking of. Yes, the idea that a vaccine has an antigen has not changed, but even so, some vaccines produced in the world even have less of that these days. And the antigen itself has changed and could act differently than another antigen.

So the idea that this vaccine is the 'same' as any other is sort of a meaningless talking point.