Awful Update #20 :( - Do you limit your DCs time around kids who stress him/her out?

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Here's my problem:


I have a friend, she has a son. Let's call him Jimmy. Let's call her Anna.


I love Anna....she is like my sister I didn't find until I was an adult. She and I have a lot of similar views and feelings about womanhood, motherhood, gentle discipline, etc...she has been an AMAZING friend to me...I have been a good friend to her, too. I've known her since Jimmy was a NB....she's known me and supported me through my pregnancy and birth and now is being a great friend to me through this pregnancy too. Her DS is now almost two and my DD is 15 months.

Here's the issue....her son is an increibly high needs child. He is just....FOREVER crying, wailing, upset. When he's not crying and wailing, he's moving a million miles a minute. My angel of a friend Anna has remained steadfast in her gentle ways with him through so much....I admire her strength so much. I have tried to be as supportive as I can when it comes to her difficulties and always have told her that I don't mind...that I don't judge her or think her kid is rotten or whatever....I love Jimmy and know that he'll grow up and find ways to channel his energy and won't always cry and carry on, etc...this is just who he is. Since he was a baby, little tiny guy, he's been this exact way.

But Jimmy makes my child miserable. She is a really laid back girl and being around him creates gigantic amounts of stress for her. They haven't spent a lot of time around each other, so I kind of thought "Let them get used to each other" - but after the last time we were all together, my DH (who was there and who loves Anna too!) said "no more, she can't be around him anymore" - she was so stressed out...just, really upset. She just kind of stands around watching him, shocked, pointing and them when he gets really upset, weeping softly and beggin to be picked up. She's really sensitive and when he starts wailing and screaming like that it seems to shatter her. I don't think that my friend could see how upset my DD was because she was tending toJimmy's needs...he was just completely *completely* metling down the whole time. It's what he does every time I am ever around him, on the phone with her, etc...this is him, daily. He is just a much more high needs, emotional kid.

I don't know what to do. I want to spend time around her, because I can see that she is isolated, depressed and lonely. She is a lovely woman and I love her...I don't have many mama friends at all and I could really use the time around her...but my DD becomes so distressed. She is the most laid back kid around and is very sensitive to what's going on in the emotional space around her...when he breaks down like that, she looks at me like "help him!" and becomes upset because he is one of those "inconsolable cryers"...my friend just holds him and walks him all around but he will NOT stop crying. I think a lot of the time he cries until he's so tired from crying that he falls asleep...and my amazing soul of a friend just holds him and rocks him as he SCREAMS...

When we were last together, we were with other people who don't know us...and they were talking so much trash about her while he was crying and screaming and she was walking him around patiently and completely humiliated...I got so angry...I said "yeah, well, good luck to you when you have your own, buddy, let's hope they are perfect angels and you never have to console them as they scream in front of other people..I'd hate for you to be judged like that and have to look at peoples ugly stares and glaring" - which, of course, automatically made me a giant you-know-what. They were so disgusted, like "wow, way to get control of your kid, lady" and "that kid needs a good spanking" and then looking at my DD and being like "What a good kid, you guys know what you're doing huh" - which is obviously ridiculous, I had no more to do with my child being born so "easy" than my poor friend did in her child being born so challenging. It made me poisonous with anger at these men, that they would drag my kid into their judgement again her and her son...I literally had a bad taste in my mouth.

But then when my DH said that "DD can't be around him" it made me so mad at him, like he was one of THEM, the JUDGERS, you know? At the same time.....my DD was honestly really upset. It stresses her out a lot. Seeing her like that, makes my DH want to vomit with worry...she is cool as a cucumber all the time...this is a kid who literally, did not ONCE cry until she was like 2-3 weeks old...and after that, very very rarely. She's just happy. She is happy, forever smiling and laughing. She has spoiled us, that's for sure. She's coming into her own now that she's trying on being a toddler and definitely has her days...but still, SO laid back, being around him really dizzies her, for lack of a better word....but I want to stand by my mama friend. She's alone all day really, has no one else...just cooped up with this highly stressful child and is also struggling with marital problems...her husband is drinking alot right now to cope with financial stress they;re having and sometimes goes a day (or a few) without talking to her...it makes me scream inside to see how lonely she is....what do I do?

Do you keep your child away from children who are "too much" for them to handle? Ladies...I'm not a faint hearted woman, I used to do a lot of volunteering in respite care and I tend to do well around highly stressful kids/people....but this boy even stresses me out to be around...it's not that my DD is too sensitive...he really is a trying little person. God, I feel so terrible even saying that.

This poor boy, has so few playmates...I want to be there for him and for my friend, I want my DD to be his friend because we seem to have such strange values for our age/area...but somehow, these people have the same values and enjoy the same peaceful life we do...but what if my DD doesn't want that? I have to put my DD first. I'm sorry this is so long...my heart is in knots. She asks from time to time about playdates and I just don't know what to do. My DH says until DD is old enough to verbally communicate what she needs and so can have our help in processing how she feels, etc...that he doesn't want her to be around him. He said he is worried, because she can't really communicate to us what she needs or what she's feeling for this boy. I think she thinks he's hurt...because she'll look at me and make her little sign for "ouchie" and then gesture toward him, I think she gets upset because she thinks this boy is hurt and that no one is or can help him. I feel like I'm letting my dear friend and her awesome boy down.

[PreggieUBA2C]

Averysmama, I do keep my dc away from stress-inducing children, but every time I have had to make that decision, it is because ultimately, the children's parents are not parenting, which makes it stressful, that if they would be present with their little ones and meet their needs, we would have a different situation.

Yours is different than that, quite clearly. I feel sad for you in this situation.

I wonder, could you visit when your lo is with daddy so that she's not having to cope? Or maybe just short visits with dd in a sling, or active visits like going for walks? It seems like she might feel less stress if she was on you or daddy while things unfold for this little boy.

Before I would quit playdates altogether, I would try the sling option with a loose focus- a walk, for instance. If that didn't work out, I would try to situate myself on the floor with her on my lap for all of her interactions. I would make sure that she knows that he's not hurt and would encourage her to focus on mama while the little boy is wailing- maybe teach her (if you haven't already or don't find it too odd for you) deep breathing exercises, stretching, patty-cake games, etc... that you can do together while you wait for your friends to resolve the present situation. Maybe this will rub off on the little boy too, and he'll want to try it as well.

I might also narrate everything as it occurs with the boy and his mum. "He's crying. He seems very upset. His mum is picking him up and rocking him. He's still crying. Mum is still rocking him. Do you want to stretch with me while they cuddle?" Maybe that would help her to know that she's not in a position of having to solve anything, that everything is okay, and everything that can be done is being done.

Maybe you've already tried all of this. I'm not assuming you haven't, but just to brainstorm with you...

I think that preserving such an awesome friendship is very important. I think you can work things around this issue, even if you have to leave dd at home with daddy to visit for a while- even years if necessary. You already know a great friend is such a treasure, one that few find. This is surmountable!

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C

Averysmama, I do keep my dc away from stress-inducing children, but every time I have had to make that decision, it is because ultimately, the children's parents are not parenting, which makes it stressful, that if they would be present with their little ones and meet their needs, we would have a different situation.

Yours is different than that, quite clearly. I feel sad for you in this situation.

I wonder, could you visit when your lo is with daddy so that she's not having to cope? Or maybe just short visits with dd in a sling, or active visits like going for walks? It seems like she might feel less stress if she was on you or daddy while things unfold for this little boy.

Before I would quit playdates altogether, I would try the sling option with a loose focus- a walk, for instance. If that didn't work out, I would try to situate myself on the floor with her on my lap for all of her interactions. I would make sure that she knows that he's not hurt and would encourage her to focus on mama while the little boy is wailing- maybe teach her (if you haven't already or don't find it too odd for you) deep breathing exercises, stretching, patty-cake games, etc... that you can do together while you wait for your friends to resolve the present situation. Maybe this will rub off on the little boy too, and he'll want to try it as well.

I might also narrate everything as it occurs with the boy and his mum. "He's crying. He seems very upset. His mum is picking him up and rocking him. He's still crying. Mum is still rocking him. Do you want to stretch with me while they cuddle?" Maybe that would help her to know that she's not in a position of having to solve anything, that everything is okay, and everything that can be done is being done.

Maybe you've already tried all of this. I'm not assuming you haven't, but just to brainstorm with you...

I think that preserving such an awesome friendship is very important. I think you can work things around this issue, even if you have to leave dd at home with daddy to visit for a while- even years if necessary. You already know a great friend is such a treasure, one that few find. This is surmountable!

Thank you so much for your gentle and loving response!

Visiting while DD is with Dada is hard for us...they go away every weekend and during the week DH is out of the house from sun up to sun down because he works far away...so that means I couldn't get in the car to make the drive to her house until around 6:00-6:30...25 minutes driving puts me there at an akward time, you know? What I thought of, was trying to have a "girl date" with her. Preplanned, just the two of us, dads watching kids....I thought that would be really nice for both of us...only problem is, she doesn't leave her DS alone with her DH because her DS is SO challegning and her husband struggles with "gentle", if you can see what I'm saying. He is a good guy...he just grew up in a house where a "good beating" was the way you "show a kid whose boss" so it's hard for him and he yells and it makes her incredibly anxious to leave them alone.....which, is just another reason why I feel like I HAVE to support her...she never gets any time to herself...this kid is even high needs at night...so, she never really gets great sleep either. I sometimes just want to WHISK her away, you know? Just come by in the night and knock her out and steal her for a week.


I have tried the naration, I have tried distraction....she takes him as far away as she can when he cries...but she can still hear him and nothing...not toys, hugs, even her favorite: SNACKS, can deter her. She wants to look out the window, follow them, she wants to see where he is and is concerned until he stops crying. Normally, when a kid is crying, she becomes concerned, her little brow wrinkling, she watches intently..."that little child is upset" I say...and she looks at me with a little sad face...and the mama will console the child and he'll calm down and I'll say "look, all better, what a happy boy again!" and she can move on....she is happy then and a lot of the time at that point will try to get closer to the child, wants to laugh with him and touch him.....but this little one doesn't follow that mode, he just cries and cries...so after a while, it's like she doesn't "buy into" the narration, you know? She's like "Be quite mama, this is not right, something is wrong, why isn't he getting better" - she simply doesn't yet have the language skills that we can really talk about it, you know? I feel like once we do...we can have an easier time being around them.

Sling doesn't work..she loves to be in the sling...now that I'm big and pregnant, it's harder, but we're rockin' the hike/back position and it's okay....but my friends boy won't go in a sling anymore and so my DD won't do it....she wants down, like him, and gets mad in the sling because she wants to walk too. But then....when she is down around him...all she can do is watch and *duck* when he crashes into her. He likes to be rough and rowdy and she's just soooo laid back. She wants to play "let's find rocks" or "lets go up the stairs!" and he wants to play "I'm going to scream and jump into your head now!!" you know?

Thank you for your suggestions...I'm really stuck. My DD has been fine around more hig henergy kids...or even "cry-ers"....but this boy is just REALLLY high intensity...and she can't cope. We tried a walk...she was DYING to get away after a while. The noise this little person puts out is overwhelming even for an adult...

This feels rotten...I see her struggling so badly...I want to be there for her.

[ssh]

Have you tried parks, so your DD can be busy playing?

I do limit contact with kids who cause stress for my DD. My DD is very exuberant and extremely friendly. If she is causing stress for shy or very quiet children, I also leave. She's 3.5 now but it still sometimes happens. She gets excited and loud and jumps up and down.

[crl]

You've probably already tried this, but what about the park? I've had lots of playdates where the kids were off playing in separate areas, but the moms still got a chance to talk with each other and get out of the house (especially when the kids were little). Would your daughter find it easier to deal with this child if they were able to separate like that?

Catherine

[limabean]

I would limit my DD's exposure to someone who stressed her out to that degree. It's not a judgment about the boy at all, just protecting your own LO.

I think the suggestion of spending time with your friend and her son but leaving your DD with her papa is a good one. You mentioned that you were wanting to plan some girl time with your friend, so it sounds like you do have some time where you're able to leave DD with her dad -- just, instead of girl time, it'll be girls-and-your-friend's-DS time, and you'll still be able to support your friend, and maybe even help her with her DS without the added stress of worrying about your DD's reaction.

Her DS probably won't always be like this. We had some friends whose 1st DS was a lot like the boy you're describing -- massive meltdowns every single time we got together. It was exhausting, but like you, I knew that was just a part of who he was at that time, and his mama was extremely patient and gentle with him, and around 3.5, he just grew out of it! He continued to have challenging days like every child, but it wasn't ratcheted up to that degree anymore, and we were able to start spending lots more family time together rather than just us moms getting together.

So in a year or two you might be able to start the playdates again, and this boy may end up being a great friend to your DD, but right now it sounds like it's just a time to let each kid have their own space for a while, and for you to support your mama friend but give your DD a break. And also, in a year or two, even if the boy's temperament is the same, your DD will be older and you'll be able to explain to her that he's just upset and his mommy is helping him and everything's okay, and she might be able to tolerate it more easily without getting upset herself. But IMO, there's nothing wrong with letting her take a break and give both of them a few months to mature a little and see if things change.

[LynnS6]

A couple of thoughts:
What's this little boy's best time of day? Plan your meetings then. I also second the park or somewhere where it's 'neutral' territory and there's more space to escape the noise.

Second, I would strongly encourage you to set up some time for this mom to get a break. I don't know how you're going to do it, but her dh needs to learn to take care of this child. Is she upset because he yells or does she think he's going to spank? My kids have survived the fact that I yell a lot more than dh. Spanking is clearly out, and if he's going to do that, she needs to make alternative arrangements. But she NEEDS a break. This is a necessity for her to maintain/regain her mental health.

I'm assuming you've talked to her about this, but has she looked into food allergies/sensitivities? There's high needs and then there's what you're describing, and I'm wondering if there's something else going on with this child. How's his development? His language?

Finally, I would limit contact with the son for a bit. When your dd is older, she can probably handle it a bit more. But find a few ways to meet where it's comfortable with everyone, a way for you to go over alone and let your dd mature a bit.

[karne]

My sister has a child who was very much like your friend's son at a young age; intense, crying, moving a lot, generally unhappy and not easily consolable. It was the precursor to a later dx., but at the time she didn't know that. My dd was like yours-sensitive and easily overwhelmed by his needs. We had ongoing contact, and it was a relief to my sis because she felt so isolated otherwise, and the worst of it was to feel like her child wasn't wanted or was unwelcome (not saying you're feeling that way, it was my sisters experience).

Anyway, time and development have helped a lot. Many years down the road her child is still amazingly intense, high needs, etc., but also amazingly loving and interesting. And my dd and he share a unique and intense bond. Her tuning in and being sensitive to him, or overly sensitive, continued through the years, and she is one kid who really 'gets' him, and accepts him. It's been really tough sometimes, but ultimately worth it. We have all needed breaks over the years, and that's the thing. If you look at your friendship with "Anna" in terms of longevity, a break here or there for everyone to breath, or for there just to be mama time, is OK in the long run. These special relationships aren't sprints, they are a long distance run in which we all need periodic water breaks. Talk it over with her and let her know how much you love and value her and her son. And be OK with not being able to rescue her. She may have a long road ahead and need to be able to seek help and resources for herself.

A final note: you might try posting a question in the Special Needs forum and ask some mamas there their opinion.

Good Luck.

[philomom]

Honestly, I'd see her without kids for a time. Give your kid a break.

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

A couple of thoughts:
What's this little boy's best time of day? Plan your meetings then. I also second the park or somewhere where it's 'neutral' territory and there's more space to escape the noise.

Second, I would strongly encourage you to set up some time for this mom to get a break. I don't know how you're going to do it, but her dh needs to learn to take care of this child. Is she upset because he yells or does she think he's going to spank? My kids have survived the fact that I yell a lot more than dh. Spanking is clearly out, and if he's going to do that, she needs to make alternative arrangements. But she NEEDS a break. This is a necessity for her to maintain/regain her mental health.

I'm assuming you've talked to her about this, but has she looked into food allergies/sensitivities? There's high needs and then there's what you're describing, and I'm wondering if there's something else going on with this child. How's his development? His language?

Finally, I would limit contact with the son for a bit. When your dd is older, she can probably handle it a bit more. But find a few ways to meet where it's comfortable with everyone, a way for you to go over alone and let your dd mature a bit.

They are in such a tough spot right now...they have NO money, are working their butts off to keep things together, just lost their house to short sale (thank goodness they avoided foreclosure) and have just had a string of problems surrounding money. I sense that she feels a bit defeated...they did everything "right"...they waited until they had financial security to have a child, etc...they really set their lives up to make this time wonderful...then, suddenly, they've got this baby and then the economy stinks and his business is dropped off considerably, meaning now she has to work part time to help out (from home) and she's trying to juggle that and this baby....she and I talked about how depressed she is, she hides it from everyone and it makes me so sad....but I think she figures, the things which make her depressed are life struggles and there isn't anything she can do to lift those issues out of her life, so...you know? We spoke recently about some form of medication for her...I'm not a fan, but I'm never going to tell someone who thinks they need a little help that they shouldn't, you know? I just want some relief for her. She said that she couldn't because she was breastfeeding...she JUST stopped bf'ing so maybe now is a good time to revisit that conversation...

Her situation with her DH is sad sad sad. They have been together forever and he is a really great guy.....he is DROWNING right now. His stress level is through the roof...her staying home with their baby and not having to work at all was the plan...I think he feels a lot of guilt that she's sort of hussling on the side to try and make ends meet. He started drinking a lot...I think like, a year ago maybe? He drinks too much and like I mentioned in my fist post, will just cease communication with her sometimes for days at a time. So...she's depressed and isolated with this really super kid, who also is high needs...and she doesn't have her partner to connect with really because he's a million miles away in his mind, just trying to escape the stress in their life.

I understand why she doesn't leave him alone with DS...I don't blame her at all. He is a great man....but she can't trust him right now. It's just like a pressure cooker sometimes at their house, because she never really knows what his moods are going to be like. She knows it's not okay...she knows she needs to be able to count on him and that his drinking has to stop, etc...she knows all of this. She's just trying to keep it together, I think.

As far as the boys development, etc. I really and sincerely believe that he's just a really high needs child...but he isn't talking at all - he's two, I don't know that he really should be talking?? I think he says one word, maybe two...I can't remember what the words are, because only my friend and her DH know what he's talking about when he says it...kind of like when my DD says "bah-buh" WE know she's saying "baby"...or like when she says "Birr"...WE know she's saying bird...but anyone else would say "huh?". I had noticed that my DD seems to say a lot more than he does...she has a few phrases that she can clearly communicate "Bye bye Dada!" and "It's HOT!" and little things like that...and he doesn't speak...but I didn't think that could indicate a problem...I thought that there was a wide variance as far as when kids hit those milestones...but it had crossed my mind that one of the reasons he could be upset all the time is because he is frustrated at being unable to communicate. I know she is really good at reading his non-verbal cues..you know, like a mama is, we know what's up with our LOs....but it still must frustrate him not to be able to "speak his mind".


Thank you all so much for your responses.

I hadn't even really thought of the park for us! My DD is JUST starting to come out of her shell to the point where the park is fun for her with all those kids whizzing around, etc....she's only been walking on outdoor surfaces with ease for a couple of months, so it's just very recently that she feels really comfortable walking at the park. I think that could be a lot of fun and maybe a good way for us to be together.

As far as a good time of day for her son...I'm not sure he really has a GREAT time of day...but I know he has REALLY bad times of day...maybe if we meet when he's having a not-so-bad time...that would be best. My schedule is wiiiiiide open, so I'll go with whatever she can manage.

I love this woman so much. I want to be there for her...I look at everything she's juggling, all these super emotionally charged issues she is handling right now and I'm blown away. The other day, we were talking about how I'm getting ready to go from one to two babies...and she admitted that her husband wants her to have another...and that she wants the same thing...but feels it would be irresponsible to do with the way things are. She is just always doing the right thing...she's always doing the right thing by somebody ELSE....and I think is a classic case of "always gets the short end of the stick" because there is no one making sure that SHE is getting what she needs. She is a selfless mother, a wonderful and understanding wife...and the best friend I've ever known of. Not just in the way she makes me feel.....she is GOOD to me, she would do anything to help me and all I want to do, is fill her with the same sense, that in me she has a friend who would do anything to help her. I'm think maybe a picnic lunch at the park...I'll pack good food for us and we can let the kids play? Something like that....


Thank you, mamas, very much, for all of your suggestions.

[Funny Face]

Haven't read all the responses so...

I have a niece (dd's only cousin) who can stress dd out for many of the same reasons you mentioned. There are also a friend of mine recently who I decided to do a playdate with and her child can also overwhelm dd.


My dd is 3.5 though so it's a little easier for me. When playing with these kids I've told her that if she gets tired or wants to be away from them for awhile that all she has to do is come tell me she needs 'a break'. Then she usually comes sits right by me and does something solitary. I explain to the other child nicely that 'She's a little tired and just needs to take a break.' This works better than the solution dd came up with previously of saying 'I do not want to play with you anymore!'

I also try to consider the best environment for playdates with these kids. Our house or theirs is not an option ( a lot of ownership issues and I don't like these kids invading dd's personal safe space). Places like mall playgrounds or parks are good for us.

[elmh23]

I do limit my kids time around other kids who stress them out. They usually stress me out too.

OP, in your situation, I'd see about getting together with your friend without kids. That way you guys can talk without having to worry about your kids breaking down. In another year, try getting the kids together again.

[alexsam]

He should be talking by two (http://www.aap.org/publiced/BK0_DevMile_2Yrs.htm). She might want to explore early intervention services. They may be able to help, and helping him communicate and finding more ways of working with him will help everyone.

[mrs joe bubby]

Originally Posted by AverysMomma

When we were last together, we were with other people who don't know us...and they were talking so much trash about her while he was crying and screaming and she was walking him around patiently and completely humiliated...I got so angry...I said "yeah, well, good luck to you when you have your own, buddy, let's hope they are perfect angels and you never have to console them as they scream in front of other people..I'd hate for you to be judged like that and have to look at peoples ugly stares and glaring" - which, of course, automatically made me a giant you-know-what. They were so disgusted, like "wow, way to get control of your kid, lady" and "that kid needs a good spanking" and then looking at my DD and being like "What a good kid, you guys know what you're doing huh" - which is obviously ridiculous, I had no more to do with my child being born so "easy" than my poor friend did in her child being born so challenging. It made me poisonous with anger at these men, that they would drag my kid into their judgement again her and her son...I literally had a bad taste in my mouth.

Just from reading your initial post you seem like a VERY kind, compassionate, understanding caring, non-judgemental person. I wish I knew someone like you, and I wish I was more like you. But, why could some of that kindness and understanding not be extended to these other people? Since we don't know them, we don't know what is going on with them or their lives, or what is making them act they way they are....Just as we don't know those things about the poor little guy who is upsetting your daughter. I don't see how being poisonous with anger at them is a healthy reaction. Extending kindness and compassion towards other adults is a good thing too. : Adults can have different/special needs too, adults can have disabilities, etc etc. Heck, maybe some of these people were going through the same things as your friend's husband and it caused them to act rudely and inappropriately.

And yes I would definitely limit my daughter's time around this boy. It wouldn't be fair to her to make her go through something that is so obviously upsetting to her.

[Just1More]

Hmmm...that's tough.

I've limited contact with people who had kids that were too rough/crazy when dd was smaller. It was just too much for her. I would hold her the whole time when we were together. People thought she was being punished...which was funny because I don't...she was just being protected. Anyway, these same friends have really great, sweet children now. They just needed a little time to mature. They are now some of dd's best friends. But age 2 was NOT a good time.

So...maybe you can talk on the phone a lot, pop in for a few minutes here and there, and then try again to be physically present more in a few months from now?

[alfabetsoup]

I also think the park is a great idea. And good for you for standing by your friend.

My first thought when I read your post was, is Jimmy ever happy? I know several intense/high needs children and while they do cry a lot more, they are happy in their comfort zones and can be consoled (though not easily). It may be that he is picking up on the stress at home or it may be something more.

[teale]

I definitely like the idea of the park. I know in my own experience, that sometimes a change of scenery can do wonders for everyone involved.

Ultimately though, you do need to figure out how much is too much for your DC. Is this something you could bring up with your friend? Are you close enough to talk to her about this and try to find a solution together?

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by mrs joe bubby

Just from reading your initial post you seem like a VERY kind, compassionate, understanding caring, non-judgemental person. I wish I knew someone like you, and I wish I was more like you. But, why could some of that kindness and understanding not be extended to these other people? Since we don't know them, we don't know what is going on with them or their lives, or what is making them act they way they are....Just as we don't know those things about the poor little guy who is upsetting your daughter. I don't see how being poisonous with anger at them is a healthy reaction. Extending kindness and compassion towards other adults is a good thing too. : Adults can have different/special needs too, adults can have disabilities, etc etc. Heck, maybe some of these people were going through the same things as your friend's husband and it caused them to act rudely and inappropriately.

And yes I would definitely limit my daughter's time around this boy. It wouldn't be fair to her to make her go through something that is so obviously upsetting to her.

My anger was in part a reaction to what they were saying, in part a reaction to seeing my poor friend struggling and embarassed and definitely in part to the fact that it was hot and muggy and I've reached that point in my pregnancy where hot and muggy bring out a special kind of grizzly rage in me!


I usually try to be an understanding person....I'm the queen of "not WHAT, but WHY" - I understand and respect that everyone is at a different place in their journey and that we all reach different levels of awareness at different times in our lives...the man who was being particularly rude about the situation was due to become a father any day and after he made a remark along the lines of "If anything like THAT came out of my wifes (horrid slang for "vagina") I would send it right back up there!" - I told him, "No matter what kind of kid your wife gives birth to, you will love that kid to pieces, even a 'kid like THAT'"....but then his remarks just became cruel...anyone with two brain cells and a pair of eyes could see how hard my poor friend was struggling and that she was mortified....they were being cruel...and I have a really hard time tolerating that these days! These people were not friends, nor people I would ever spend time around under normal circumstances.


Thanks for your reply. I got a pretty awful update to this situation this morning which will change the way I go about handling things....

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by alfabetsoup

I also think the park is a great idea. And good for you for standing by your friend.

My first thought when I read your post was, is Jimmy ever happy? I know several intense/high needs children and while they do cry a lot more, they are happy in their comfort zones and can be consoled (though not easily). It may be that he is picking up on the stress at home or it may be something more.

I think you're right, I think that on top of being a naturally higher needs kid, he is picking up on stress in the house...I don't think his dad is really great at tension moderation...I don't think he gets that the boy is going to pick up on anything that he doesn't "check at the door"...you know?

But I HAVE seen him happy....we were catching salamanders and it was very interesting to him...I've seen him happy when in constant motion....running around, etc...he's not miserable so much...just really hard to please.

[BroodyWoodsgal]

SO I've had the most awful update this morning frommy poor, poor friend.


She finally had a talk with her husband, because his self medicating and avoidance issues are just too much to let slide.....and he's leaving.

That's right. He's confessed to my friend that he's miserable, that he doesn't know if he sees Anna and Jimmy in his life anymore, that he has to find himself and that he's leaving. He is moving ACROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY to be on the west coast where his family is from. He said he's just going to go and "see what he finds there". We live on the East Coast. My friend is a SAHM who does a little bit of work out of her home to help with food money, etc. They JUST lost the house that has been their rental property for years....they now have a mortgage for the roof that's over their heads and he has no plan for working, etc when he leaves so that he can help her to pay for where they live, the home they have made theirs for years.

How can this be happening? How can a man, a grown man, up and leave? He is not some kid, they are not some crazy people who just met and decided to have a baby...they had a PLAN they spent years together, building a life so they could have a family and she could stay home...she put her career aside so she could be a SAHM...they've been together forever....and now, just like that, because he's feeling "lost"....he's leaving. Up and walking out the door, to be like, 2,000 miles away from his son and my friend, his wife. These are not flaky people...these are "normal" folks...who are steady and don't do crazy, rash things. They make plans, they think about each others needs...this man is not someone I would ever think could up andleave...make a plan to fix what's broken? YEs. Decide it's not going to work, and make a plan for leaving so as not to upset the life they've built for their son...yeah, I can see that. DISAPPEARING like some sort of ghost...just dropping out of his life like a damn vagrant hobo or something....that's beyond what I can fit into my head. That is crazy.

He has no plan for supporting her....and apparently is not pretending that is even a thought for him....he's just f-ing leaving. I'm shocked...not that he's lost or unhappy...I get that he can't help that...but he's had this wife of his, BEGGING to be let into his head, so she could help him...he completely emotionally unplugged from her and didnt even give hera chance to help him....up until very recently, when they talk about how stressed he has been, it's been "I love you, this is our life, we'll make it as long as we have each other" - now he's just going to leave??

I'm heartbroken for her...we didn't even get to finish the conversation because her son was melting down so she had to go and will call me back....but how could this happen? He's just going to leave her alone, floating out in the universe somewhere...apparently doesn't even care if she's able to keep a roof over her head? What is that? How can he walk away from her? She is so strong and is telling me "I can do this, I can rebuild my life" but she's saying it through sobbing tears....it's just unfair. This wasn't an after thought, this family they made...this wasn't a mistake...they planned this. Part of the plan was not him walking out when their child is two and moving thousands of miles away.

So...this changes the situation, re: how much time should I spend there. However I have to swing it, whatever I have to do....I will be there for her. I will drive the 25 minutes to go grocery shopping with her, maybe have a few slumber parties with her as she adjusts to being alone in her house....dinners, lunches...whatever I have to do. I cann't imagine how, in this universe of light and love....a woman like this, with the amazing heart and soul that she has, could be left like this. JUST LEFT. Left behind....in the dust. He's headed west...and I guess is not looking back?

I'm just crushed for her. I'm crushed beyondbelief for her son. Her H is talking about "I need to be a father to him" - how is he going to do that, when he's 2,000 miles away? How can he do this to her, to his son???

Thank you mamas, for your replies. We will be getting creative now, to find ways that our kids can be around each other without my DD being overwhelmed...maybe the aquarium? I'm trying to think of places where there is stimulation....he seems to need that to stay focused...so we'll have to make this the summer of finding cool places that Jimmy can be happy, so I can spend time with this precious mama friend of mine.