Help a teacher out, please! Need gentle ideas for management.

[anne1140]

I almost posted this in the "Behavior Bucks" thread, but I didn't want to hijack it, so I'm making my own.

Honestly, I am, and have been, struggling with this whole concept of classroom management. I am a kindergarten teacher, and I have between 20-25 students each year. This will be my fourth year teaching.

PLEASE don't flame me for what I am about to post, as I am looking to change this to a more gentle approach. But this has been my management plan thus far:

I have four circles with clothespins. The students' names are on the clothespins. There are purple, green, yellow, and red circles, and the students start on green at the beginning of the day. If the student gets a warning for something, he/she goes to yellow. A second time puts him/her at red. If behavior doesn't improve by the end of the day, a note goes home to the parent. If the child does something extraordinary, he/she goes to purple, and a note gets sent home for that, as well. We also have a marble jar. If the class, as a whole, does something well, a marble goes in the jar, and they get a prize when they've reached 30 marbles.

The problem I have is that I still have kids going to red and not caring, so obviously it's not doing what it's supposed to, and the purple circle, in all honesty, is pretty random, so it isn't fair.

My question is: Does anyone have any better ideas? I really can't just expect them to be good for intrinsic purposes, because many of them haven't learned that from home, and I have 20-25 kids! They just won't, trust me, and chaos will ensue. I have to manage the class somehow, and I need to do something that will be relatively gentle and work. I like the green ticket idea, with a prize after 20, but I fear that they may get stolen. I could have them put their names on them, but then I couldn't reuse them. I could do the same sort of thing with a sticker chart instead, but I don't like the idea of kids being able to compare themselves with others (another problem I have with my current system).

Some ideas that are running through my head (if you can add to them, great!):
1. Some sort of box where they can put their name in if they need to talk to me about something bothering them, and I will get back with them by the end of the day.
2. Some sort of "cool off" area in the room.
3. A bulletin board where students can post stars or something else, without names, but so the whole class can see good things being done and be motivated.
4. Somehow have "jobs" for everyone, so everyone feels a part of the class.

Help me out! Only two weeks until school starts! Yikes!

[MattBronsil]

I'm going to address some of your ideas individually. I think you have some good ideas that will work.

I posted some advice about kindergarten on a message board pertaining to Taiwan. Most of it dealt with how to handle an ESL Kindergarten class, but there were some good ideas in there as well for any Kindergarten class. Here's some of what I wrote in that forum that might help you.


*** Stories with repetition work better than stories without. The video clip you posted (there was a video clip of someone reading to kindergarteners and they were bored), there seems to be no repetition in the book. Examples of good books with repetition:
--Most Eric Carl's books
--Caps for Sale
--Goodnight, Moon
--Alexander and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day
--Ticky Ticky Tembo (SP???)

When there is good repetition in the book, the children begin to learn the book faster. You can begin to pause and expect responses from the students. This helps with both their listening and speaking skills. It also gives them the opportunity to "read" the book later and look for familiar words in the passage.
_________________________

*** Present the practical life activities (a Montessori term). These are activities in the Montessori classroom that help children become more independent. They are mostly comprised of every day activities that can be done around the house. As children learn the words for these materials, they often immediately have a connection at home to these materials. These things can easily be reinforced at home and I often heard stories of children using the English names at home. (Again...you're not asking about English language learners, but the practical life activities are designed to help a child develop concentration and focus.)

__________________________

If you have to do large group lessons, my biggest advice I can give is teach them a song very early. It is best if it is a long song that has a few repetitive verses (Think 5 Little Monkeys Jumping on a Bed). With that, you can train them to calm down when it's appropriate. Write in a vertical fashion the numbers 4-0 on the board, with 4 on the top and 0 on the bottom. Point to four and scream, "EVERYBODY SAY 4!!!!"
Let them get loud for a second and let it die down or bring them back around after 2-3 seconds.

Point to 3 and, in a normal voice say, "This is 3."
If they scream it, tell them, "No. This is 3" (putting your hand at your mouth).

Raise your hand as you point with your other hand to four. Have them practice that level. Do the same with 3. Have them move between the two levels.

2 is just below a normal speaking voice. (Practice this)
1 is just above a whisper. (practice this)
0 you can't hear anything I say. My mouth moves, but you can't hear it.

Once you practiced that, take the song you know and sing it, pointing to the different numbers along the way. You want them to get energized and bring it down, so go between them. End up on a 0 or 1 for the last line. You'll usually have a very calm class after the song. It only takes a few times for them to work out the visual cue of where your hand is so if they start getting too loud or the question they are asking is too loud, the visual cue is usually all I need for most students.

*** Remember you're the model. If you yell across the room, others may do so. If you chase after a child that is running by running yourself, you allow others to run. If you don't deal with your anger calmly, they have a right to act out on their frustration. If you're drinking a coke, let them drink some too. You're the model in the classroom. Hold yourself to the same rules you hold everyone else to.

___________________________________________

Now, on to what you said:

Originally Posted by anne1140

Some ideas that are running through my head (if you can add to them, great!):
1. Some sort of box where they can put their name in if they need to talk to me about something bothering them, and I will get back with them by the end of the day.

That might work, but I don't see it working too well. Unless you catch what they want to talk to you about when they want to talk to you about it, the moment might be lost.

2. Some sort of "cool off" area in the room.

Yes. Definitely. Nice pillows, some books (not too many), and maybe headphones to listen to calming music or a story.

3. A bulletin board where students can post stars or something else, without names, but so the whole class can see good things being done and be motivated.

We've used a peace plant. This is a plant that has flowers sitting in a basket next to it. For cost purposes, they were not real flowers. When you see someone do something nice in the classroom, you can walk over and put a flower in the tree. I make sure to do this on a regular basis so children can see me do it. The child doesn't have to explain what he saw or what happened unless he wants to.

4. Somehow have "jobs" for everyone, so everyone feels a part of the class.

This is good. But I'd suggest making the jobs just a normal part of the free time work period. Teach them, and set out, materials so they can scrub tables, wash things, etc. Children LOVE these activities.

[MattBronsil]

One more thing. This book (Honoring the Light of the Child):
http://www.shiningmountainspress.com/Books.html


is fantastic.

Some of the activities I am not a huge fan of, but I love others. The peace plant idea comes from this book.

I'd send you a link to amazon, but it is listed as $90 on there. ha!

[darcytrue]

When my DD was in kindergarten a couple of years ago her teacher had a stoplight approach with cars where the kids cars were in green at the first of the day and moved up to yellow and then red as they got in trouble. Usually this didn't work with a couple of the kids in class who were habitual trouble-makers and didn't seem to care so sometimes she would have to punish the whole class for one or two of the kids that caused problems all the time. That usually seemed to help more than the stoplight because the bad child would feel bad for messing things up for the whole class. I didn't really agree with either approach but at the same time I had to realize the teacher did this day in and day out for 10 months out of the year and really needed to have some order. I felt for her. I know I couldn't do it.

[LilyGrace]

If you can manage it, I think Becky Bailey's Conscious Discipline program would help you with your goals. I don't know if there's a program near you, but it might be worth it to look.


I'll tell you straight up, that as a parent I have a hard time accepting classroom discipline routines because they don't allow for the teaching of self discipline, but focus on punishment and rewards. And I don't buy that it has to be that way because that is how it is at home. Children learn to behave in different settings for different people, and they do rise to expectations.

I really like your idea of a cool off corner. I think I would add a peace table there, too, so that when two children have a conflict, they can hash it out. There's very simple rules that can be posted at the table:
1. The child holding the peace object (olive branch, flower, whatever) has the right to talk.
2. "I" statements should be used i.e.: "when I heard ____, I felt _____."
3. When a resolution is found, the two children should ring the bell at the table signifying that they are ready to come back.

I like the idea of each child having a job, too. I find that when we have the opportunity to give back, we respect ourselves and others more. The same idea carries over into discipline - when we can help solve the problem, we're more able to do it on our own without help. K's are little-littles, but I think asking them for solutions to their own problems will help solve minor issues in the classroom without the need to record most of them.


Good luck! I think K teachers have some of the hardest jobs out there!

[karne]

I sometimes wish that what is considered "good" behavior for K. kids could be a bit more flexible. My experience is that these kids are young, sometimes very young, going into school. Even getting there and being interested in being there is a stretch sometimes, and then adding in having to interact in a group, participate in both academic and social activities.....it can be a lot. I wouldn't assume that behavior always is a result of not having been taught in the home. In my child's kindy I saw several kids from very nice homes who just plain old struggled with the behavioral expectations of being in school.

That said, I far prefer positive approaches, such as some you have suggested, versus the negative approaches. I think a cooling off spot is a good idea. I especially think that if you identify particular times that certain kids are apt to not be 'with the program", you might troubleshoot ahead. Sensory areas, a bean table, water or sand table, can provide good input for kids who need to cool down or get some sensory input in order to be a part of the group. The block area provides a great way to do some "heavy work". Bean bag lap pads for everyone can help with times that sitting is absolutely necessary. I am a huge fan of getting ahead of the issues if at all possible.

I think that the issue with using the colors can be that kids have such varies reactions:some don't "get" it, or don't care, for others it's shameful, and it certainly it creates a sense of comparison among the classmates and sets up the bad kids vs. the good kids (whatever that means). Can you use the idea of "catching" them being good and noticing this in a positive and constructive way?

[annethcz]

I'm going to be teaching this year for the first time in years. The school I'll be teaching at uses the Responsive Classroom model.

I recently heard about a classroom management model based somewhat on Alfie Kohn's work. I haven't had a chance to read extensively about it, but everything I've heard sounds very interesting. Restitution promoted by Diane Gossen.

1. Some sort of box where they can put their name in if they need to talk to me about something bothering them, and I will get back with them by the end of the day.

I heard this idea at a Dr. Jean conference last week. She suggested it as a way to avoid having your attention pulled in 5 different directions at once. I'm not sure if I would use this unless I had kids who constantly inturrupted.

2. Some sort of "cool off" area in the room.

I think this is a GREAT idea! The model used at my school is that kids are asked to 'take a break' when they're being disruptive. This gives kids a chance to cool off and get their bodies and minds under control. The kids are welcome to come back and be a part of the class when they're ready to be respectful. Some teachers just have a little carpet square for the break area, others (with larger classrooms) have a larger area with pillows.

4. Somehow have "jobs" for everyone, so everyone feels a part of the class.

I'll have rotating jobs in my classroom. Jobs are line leader, turn off lights, clean up after snack, etc. Jobs change each week.

[SimonMom]

DS1 was in K last year and they had assigned jobs every week. They LOVED them. Someone was also the substitute so when someone was absent they toook over their job. Some of the jobs I remember were line leader, door opener, fish feeder, floor sweeper, turn off the lights when leaving, someone would take the lunch count to the lunch ladies in the morning, someone would take the attendance count to the office, etc etc. They don't seem like big jobs, but the kids were so excited for them.

Also, my school uses PBIS, and really only use positive reinforcement. My sons teacher used verbal reminders/reprimands and that was it. I think one little girl got sent to the principal's office several times for pushing or punching or something. They got rewarded a lot. The teachers try to catch them doing goods things and they recieved paper stars. They collected the stars and used them for things, like entering in a drawing or the class could earn a "star party".

[obiandelismom]

Both of my kids were in classrooms last year that used a (very public) 'color' or 'ticket' system. Both of them 'stayed on green' the whole year, but if they had done something 'bad' and dropped down, they would have been MORTIFIED - really, for kids that already want to please the teacher, these systems are fraught with anxiety! Ugh. I really do hate them. If nothing else, try to move the discipline to a private, teacher-student level, instead of having it be the equivilant of a public hanging.

Rant over!

[Girlprof]

Such an interesting conversation.....

My son just finished a successful year of KG with a very experienced teacher. She used most of the methods that have been mentioned on here. So, one thing definitely doesn't exclude the others. She didn't do the color system, but instead if someone misbehaved, they got their name on the board. More misbehavior earned a check mark. Some consequence at 2 check marks and more than two meant contacting parents. No more bad behavior for a certain amount of time and she would erase the check marks and the name. I think this is a bit gentler than the clothespin system simply because you don't have everyone with a clothespin kind of waiting to get sent to the "bad" color. But, clearly it's the same idea. My very sensitive son was not bothered by this system, but it might bother some kids.

The kids definitely had jobs that rotated and the jobs were VERY highly regarded. She also had a cool off area - some pillows and books in a private part of the room. I saw her send someone there once who was making trouble.

I suppose some of the other classroom structures probably helped with keeping order though I'm not sure that was the intent. She changed activities pretty frequently so the kids didn't have time to get bored. Lots of songs, my God, constant songs, and moving from one area of the classroom to another, stuff like that.

She did have two kids who consistently made trouble. With these two, she did a lot of preventative stuff before putting their names up - trying to keep them away from each other; making sure they were involved in whatever the activity of the moment was, etc. Still, they continued to make trouble. I don't know whether this is a "failure" of her system since the trouble continued or a "success" since these two might have made trouble regardless of what she did and at least they were mostly not impinging on the other children's chances to learn.

[eepster]

Sorry this is completely off topic.

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

--Ticky Ticky Tembo (SP???)

This is a really very offensive book.

[HipGal]

I would recommend dropping the color coding and marble jar things because I just don't think they work. I know things like this can help a teacher feel that they are doing something about the situation, but I'm not convinced that it actually makes children behave better, kwim? The whole class stuff especially doesn't seem to work. (I should say that maybe it does work for some people, but not for me - and I haven't seen any research about it).

The most important thing, I think, is to teach procedures/expectations for EVERYTHING at the beginning of the year. And have them practice and act it out. In Kinder especially you are going to have to teach them everything: how to line up, how to sit, how to raise hands, what your expectations are for sitting in their seats (are they allowed to get up - if so, for what reasons). Tell them, show them, then have them do it. If there were specific transitions that were difficult, practice these more. Teach them as much as you can on the first day. Make sure they always do it the way you want them to consistently.

Do you have a way to get their attention? Clapping a rhythm or a bell or chime? Practice this a lot in the beginning of the year.

My other advice is to split the kids up as much as possible. Do you have centers? Try having more centers with less kids at each table. This will automatically keep the noise level lower (for times when that is important).

Try to keep them as engaged as possible. There should be a minimum of uncertainty in the day. So kids should go right from one thing to the other, knowing the procedure. If things are a little uncertain, they will start to goof off or bother each other. If they know exactly what they should be doing, they are more likely to do it.

Definitely catch them being good. Be enthusiastic. Keep your eyes on everyone even when you are working with one student or a small group. If they get away with something one time they are going to try it again, kwim?

Try to connect with your kids right away. Learn what they are interested in. Talk to them about themselves. If they know you care and feel part of the community, they will be more willing to listen.

Keep trying and ask other teachers as well. Classroom management can be tough, especially when you want to reach a higher level of intrinsic motivation, etc. You can do it!

[Bird Girl]

When I taught Kindergarten, I spent the whole first month teaching "three part listening." Three-part listening means that your hands are quiet in your lap, your eyes are looking at me, and your mouth is closed. Your ears can't work if you aren't using three-part listening!--wash, rinse, repeat. Most discipline problems involved me trying to teach something and a student talking, looking elsewhere, or touching someone else. So instead of attempt to create a "consequence," I just endlessly repeated the three-part listening gambit. If I was especially annoyed, I would ask students to tell me what the parts were--including the little darling who was poking his neighbor.

One principle that has always served me well in dealing with children's behavior is this: if this is wrong, what is right? It's true that sometimes children do things purely to annoy the person in power (teacher, mother, playground supervisor.) But more often, discipline issues are rooted in either not understanding or lacking the self control to carry out the correct action. So instead of an endless string of "Don't do X," try to see if you can coach the correct response--like Matt Bronsil's practicing volume levels, or three-part listening, or a routine for what happens at circle time. Don't be afraid to give those positive instructions as often as needed--even directly to one or two students. You can impress upon them that you are always watching them and that you are always in charge without a long list of negative rewards and "consequences" by acting like a general instead and constantly giving commands and directions--or like a coach, who gives tips and encouragement, if you prefer.

[darcytrue]

Originally Posted by LilyGrace

I like the idea of each child having a job, too. I find that when we have the opportunity to give back, we respect ourselves and others more.

My DDs kindergarten teacher did this as well. It was a private school and all grades from K-8th had to have classroom jobs that kids would be assigned and rotated each week. This was in addition to the discipline and rewards system. Once they got in to the school year all these things seemed to go together and mesh well.

Originally Posted by obieandelismom

Both of my kids were in classrooms last year that used a (very public) 'color' or 'ticket' system. Both of them 'stayed on green' the whole year, but if they had done something 'bad' and dropped down, they would have been MORTIFIED - really, for kids that already want to please the teacher, these systems are fraught with anxiety! Ugh. I really do hate them. If nothing else, try to move the discipline to a private, teacher-student level, instead of having it be the equivilant of a public hanging.

My oldest child would have been this way. But a teacher of children this young needs to take some type of approach. I can only imagine how hard it is to lead a classroom of 15+ 5-7 year olds for an entire school year and I think "some" kind of discipline has to be used. I volunteered in my DDs Kindergarten class a lot and the same two or three children were in trouble almost every single day. They just would not listen and disrupted the whole class over and over again. so I'm sure there has to be some kind of system in place or the teacher would go bonkers. And I'm in no way taking up for the teachers, but I realize something has to be in place to try and get the students to straighten up.

[Aquitane]

I second the Becky Bailey book.

Also, do you have any help at all? Para-pro? Parent volunteers?

I don't teach kindy. (I'd probably go nuts.) I teach 4th grade. Have you ever read any of the Love and Logic books? Sometimes fancy-schmancy discipline systems don't work because they don't address the true issue and aren't logical.

Jobs are awesome! It gives kids ownership of their classroom, thus they will be more likely to be respectful of it.

This year I decided to refit my own discipline system. All students will be given specific jobs and freedom. If a student has behavior issues, I will talk with that student privately, and he/she will lose some of the freedoms. (Like being able to roam around the room unrestricted.) You might adapt it somewhat to fit kindergarten.

[bu's mama]

Great thread - I'll be back to post later.

[baglady]

Originally Posted by Bird Girl

When I taught Kindergarten, I spent the whole first month teaching "three part listening." Three-part listening means that your hands are quiet in your lap, your eyes are looking at me, and your mouth is closed. Your ears can't work if you aren't using three-part listening!--wash, rinse, repeat. Most discipline problems involved me trying to teach something and a student talking, looking elsewhere, or touching someone else. So instead of attempt to create a "consequence," I just endlessly repeated the three-part listening gambit. If I was especially annoyed, I would ask students to tell me what the parts were--including the little darling who was poking his neighbor.

One principle that has always served me well in dealing with children's behavior is this: if this is wrong, what is right? It's true that sometimes children do things purely to annoy the person in power (teacher, mother, playground supervisor.) But more often, discipline issues are rooted in either not understanding or lacking the self control to carry out the correct action. So instead of an endless string of "Don't do X," try to see if you can coach the correct response--like Matt Bronsil's practicing volume levels, or three-part listening, or a routine for what happens at circle time. Don't be afraid to give those positive instructions as often as needed--even directly to one or two students. You can impress upon them that you are always watching them and that you are always in charge without a long list of negative rewards and "consequences" by acting like a general instead and constantly giving commands and directions--or like a coach, who gives tips and encouragement, if you prefer.

:

It was a revelation for me when someone taught me these principles. I was teaching ninth grade, but I did something very similar.

I spent the first week or two going over our classroom routine (come in, collect your book from the bookshelf, sit down, begin warm-up, etc.)

The three part listening strategy sounds great for younger kids. For high schoolers, I had a poster over my desk that said:

1. What should you be doing?
2. What are you doing?
3. How can I help you get back on track?

I also started out the year with a behavior contract. I asked the kids to get into small groups and come up with adjectives answering questions like: How do you want to be treated by your peers?, How do you want to be treated by your teacher?, How do you think your teacher wants to be treated by you? We would then compare adjectives (every group came up with the same/similar words), write them on a poster board and everyone including me would sign it. That was our social contract, the way we all agreed to treat each other.

After implementing things like this in my classroom I realized that most kids aren't acting up because they are trying to be malicious, even in high school most kids had no idea that they had gotten off track. I had very few kids (1 or 2 per semester spread out over 3 classes) who actively tried to cause trouble and it was much easier to deal with them when everyone else was calm. I ended up with a well oiled machine. My class consisted of small groups every day, so it was really important that each kid get on board and do the job at hand. The semester that I started working with the kids on their behavior rather than against them, I only actively had to "punish" 2 kids on one occasion.

Obviously, my exact methods are for older kids, by the principle is the same.

[anne1140]

Thanks for all the good advice. Keep it coming!

This:

Originally Posted by obiandelismom

Both of my kids were in classrooms last year that used a (very public) 'color' or 'ticket' system. Both of them 'stayed on green' the whole year, but if they had done something 'bad' and dropped down, they would have been MORTIFIED - really, for kids that already want to please the teacher, these systems are fraught with anxiety! Ugh. I really do hate them. If nothing else, try to move the discipline to a private, teacher-student level, instead of having it be the equivilant of a public hanging.

Rant over!

was pretty hurtful, though. I'm looking for advice on making my system better, and I am well aware of the things you said, which is why I really want to change it. Saying that I am "publicly hanging" my children was the most hurtful, because it implies that I am humiliating them purposefully.

I just didn't think this post was necessary. It didn't offer me anything helpful, but instead criticized what I am already trying to change.

[anne1140]

Originally Posted by Aquitane

I second the Becky Bailey book.

Also, do you have any help at all? Para-pro? Parent volunteers?

I don't teach kindy. (I'd probably go nuts.) I teach 4th grade. Have you ever read any of the Love and Logic books? Sometimes fancy-schmancy discipline systems don't work because they don't address the true issue and aren't logical.

I am lucky to have two other adults in my classroom.

I have read the Love and Logic for teachers, and while I liked a lot of what I read, honestly, it seemed a bit overwhelming.

[lara1828]

Originally Posted by anne1140

Saying that I am "publicly hanging" my children was the most hurtful, because it implies that I am humiliating them purposefully.

These "public" chart or ticket type systems are purposefully humiliating children in an attempt to change their behavior. I'm glad you planning to change your classroom for the better.