What would you do with this?

[peaceful_mama]

DS is 4.5. I do use time-outs. So let's stay off that as the problem. I can't just *let* him do some things--like bite his sister because she wouldn't get off HER bike and let him ride, absolute refusal to follow rules--like no playing in the parking lot (apt. building)

I've talked, I've explained, he knows. He gets warnings. My child is one who needs to be shown exactly where the line is and what happens when you cross it.

So the question is, what do you do when you've sent them to their room for time out and now they are kicking the door? Also not OK. What's left after you've time-out-ed?

I go in and keep putting him back on his bed.


Is this just going to be a matter of time? Like DS used to run out of his room too when I first did time-out. Until I kept putting him back there and making him stay. (Generally the one min. per year, but I also go with when he seems calmed down if he's been angry with someone. That could be 2 minutes, could be 10.)

incidentally for DH, he would only have to go in there ONCE. He can also move them and make them stand by the wall, arms up. Or stay in our bed with him for a *long* time when they fight and wake him--he works late. For me, these things don't work, I guarantee you if I put a kid standing in the hall arms up they'd be running out the front door.

I think they listen better to him because he's not around doing it near as much as me. Also, he's not distracted and gives up because the baby needs to nurse, in the middle of cooking, have to take DD to the bathroom, etc. etc.

but back to the original question...what do you do when they're doing something they shouldn't while in timeout?

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Well, we don't use timeout, but I have with other children, and we would use a timer. The timeout (usually 3-4 minutes) had to be completed calmly, or the timer would be turned back to zero. So kicking the door would reset the timer to zero and the 3 minutes would start over.

[peaceful_mama]

hmmm I've used a timer a few times, but my main focus is NOT the length of time. It's the demeanor. If I put him in time-out for biting his sister, he should leave time-out when he doesn't feel angry with his sister. I am *not* going to let him out even after 4 minutes if he is still screaming, possibly kicking, obviously angry.

OTOH if he comes to me after about 3 minutes calm and ready to apologize...why would I enforce sitting for 4?

the whole timer thing just doesn't seem right to me with time outs. And the few times I did try it and try resetting, it just seemed to make him more upset/angry.

Before this door-kicking thing started, I'd figured out that if I simply dropped the timer but did the same thing, without pointing it out, he'd stay there, cry, scream, whatever and then calm down--WITHOUT the secondary escalating of anger now directed at me because I'm resetting a timer.

[mommy2abigail]

Would you be willing to try a time in? Maybe not separated from the rest of the family, but a quiet space in the living room? And present it as a calming down place, like have books and paper and crayons or what not? I know it seems like rewarding the bad behavior, but someone pointed out to me that you are trying to help them develop the inner controls to calm themselves down. Giving them concrete things to do and showing them HOW to calm themselves down will help them be able to do it on their own. Does that make sense? If going to his room is helping him to be able to calm himself down, them I would say do it. Obviously though, it's making him more agitated which is counter productive. We have a 'quiet place' with a bean bag in a corner of the family room. DD can still see me, and it affords her some place to calm down. Since doing this, she has even gone there on her own when she is feeling frustrated sometimes! I hope this helps a little. 4 year olds are....interesting!!

[mamacatsbaby]

Our DS is almost 3.5 and we use time-outs for hitting/violence and issues that put him or someone else in danger. He sits in the living room area though and while he's calming down or whatnot he tells us why he's frustrated, angry, etc. (we don't do crayons or toys or anything though). Then we talk about things, hugs and kisses, then we keep it movin'. While we're waiting for him to tell us what's up we go about our business so it's not like we're just all wrapped up in this one instance and building it up. Works for us anyway .

[LynnS6]

Well, 'what do you do after you've time-outed' is one argument against time outs. Note, I'm not debating the use of time outs as I use them myself. However, I would encourage you to rethink the purpose of the time out.

Instead of having it be the 'go to' resource, what about limiting to it when he needs to calm down? That's essentially what we do with dd (who's 5). Ds is 8 and will go off by himself (mostly) to calm down. I'm 43 and I'm learning to go off by myself .

There are two 'offenses' that result in a time out in our house: hitting and interminable whining. Both are anti-social behaviors, in my book, and so if you engage in them, you don't get to be around others until you've calmed down.

Once we put the child in time out, they're there until they are calm. Then they're done and we cuddle if they want. I don't 'regulate' what they do. If they kick the door or the wall, oh well. The worst that's going to happen is the child is going to get a lesson in how to patch a wall. And yes, I would make my 4.5 year old stay with me and help. A good friend of mine has 2 very intense kids, and they both know how to patch a wall!

I'd also encourage more 'logical' consequences. So, if my child can't stay out of the parking lot, then inside we come. There's no time out one we're inside because the logical consequence of not playing safely outside is not being able to be outside. I don't need to add anything to that. And I'm perfectly comfortable with a logical (i.e. imposed) consequence because the natural consequence (my child getting hit by the car) is unacceptable.

I'd cut the warnings for things that are safety issues. I'd ask HIM to tell ME the rules before we go out. Then if he's looking like he's going to go into the parking lot, ask HIM, 'what's the rule?' If he still does it, then in we go.

I'd also be really uncomfortable with making a child stand by the wall with their arms up. I'm almost (but not quite) OK with a child being asked to stand in one place, but with their arms up strikes me as far too punitive. What's accomplished by making them stand with their arms up?

What I'm trying to do with time outs is to teach my child to self-regulate a little better. So, when they're having difficulty self-regulating and need a break, they get a time out. If the offense is something different (like refusing to put away a scooter so that I won't trip on it), then the consequence is different (the scooter got put away for a day).

The bottom line that I try to achieve with my discipline is: What do I want my child to learn from this? Now, I often fall far short of this goal. I've been punitive and petty more often than I'd like to admit. I yell at my kids more than I'd like. But as my kids get older, I do see the benefits of thinking of discipline more as teaching and less as 'making them pay' for their 'crimes'.

[One_Girl]

I think that the point of time-out is to calm a child down and give them time to make different decisions. Maybe you should try letting him just be in his room and not worrying about where in his room he is. If he wants to play then let him play and regroup that way in his room and away from where he can hurt people. He may be resorting to violence because all other attempts to get what he wants or to be listened to have failed. He may be running away because he feels like he isn't listened to and it gets him a lot of attention, just as kicking the door gets him attention. I think you should address his need for attention and be more careful about making sure to respond to him and watching for frustration signs before he attacks. Prevention and giving kids an outlet to be heard helps to make the need for more violent and destructive behaviors unnessecary and it helps kids feel valued.

Making a child stand in a physically uncomfortable position is something that even schools that allow spanking don't allow. I don't think you should strive to be more like your dh in this. They may respond to your dh because they are scared of what he will do but act out with you because you are safe and don't do things that are viewed as abuse even by the sternest public school systems.

[Minarai]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Making a child stand in a physically uncomfortable position is something that even schools that allow spanking don't allow.

That's not necessarily true. I went to a school that didn't use paddling or caning, but one teacher frequently used the "two circles for your fingers, one for your nose" tactic.

[DevaMajka]

I have removed some posts that were UAV's, and posts that were in response to the UAV's.

Please keep in mind the forum guidelines which state in part:

Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.